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Caligari?...Microsoft?..Calisoft?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Caligari?...Microsoft?..Calisoft? // Roundtable
Post by Igor K Handel // Feb 7, 2008, 11:56am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Whilst my previous posts have been somewhat tongue in cheek, this one is quite the reverse.
I believe it would be grossly unfair to prejudge the outcome of this news, and second guessing whilst only natural is also potentially damaging both to individuals, users and companies. It can also be disheartening for both noobs and veterans alike, and perhaps for no valid reason.
I would ask anyone who feels ill informed to consider this.. Are Caligari a bit busy right now? Do Caligari even have permission to give further details at this point? Are all the details even ironed out?
Caligari would not have lasted this long if they didn't care about their users. Even as a new user to TS I have seen the interaction between users and CEO. That says a lot to me, do you believe it has suddenly stopped..... I don't .. not for one minute.
This is a very important time for Caligari and so by default for us it's users. Give them the space they need to do what needs done, THEN and only then, when the details are in place and the background efforts are done, will we be informed. I guess at the end of the day we are talking about trust.. and I refer to my previous point; do you believe the CEO has important things to sort right now for the longterm good of his baby.. I do and wish him all the best.
What is happening right now is not bad it is good, it is securing the future of TS, we just have to wait to see what shape of TS is planned. No other business would be able to do this any differently.. Be patient
Yours
IKHandel |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 11:57am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I have at least one thing to look forward to...Google Earth fully supports the Space Navigator so maybe now tS will....;)
I wonder if this is the quickest growing thread on this forum: 5000 views in less than 24 hours? |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 7, 2008, 12:06pm
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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There's no pulling in different directions - I am just asking that people remember what a blog is :)
A blog is an individual's personal thoughts and reflections, and I am asking our community not to interpret the blog as being some company statement, or some insider leak into where things are going :) If anyone says in a blog that online 3D is an exciting thing with new opportunities, then that's fine - but you can't generalise from that and assume anything about what trueSpace will or will not have in future.
Norm is merely sharing his thoughts on 3D in general and what opportunities lie ahead. The issue is that the community should not then take that blog and view it as having some reflection on what will or will not happen with tS.
Thanks!
Tom
And to cover Paul's post, Norm writing in his blog is again not something from "us" (as in Caligari). Just Norm as a person talking, with his thoughts and opinions. As ever, all official information on the topic is to be found on the website (and not in individual's blogs!).
Tom, appreciate the replies, however, the fact that NO ONE at Caligari will confirm that TrueSpace as a rendering tool is safe, that's a concern. We are hearing from Caligari that you're moving into realtime 3D worlds and I really do wish you the best on that front. But what of us who use TrueSpace as a rendering tool? I mean, to me, the fact that no one from Caligari is saying that this is safe, that to me says that its future is under evaluation and it may not be safe. If it was 100% safe, we'd have someone from Caligari put all our concerns to rest. The fact that that hasn't happened says TrueSpace's future is not set in stone any more. |
Post by andras // Feb 7, 2008, 12:07pm
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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I don't care these facts :rolleyes:
Just will be transparent shadow on V-ray Bridge (what is working:) ) AND Modeler move to Workspace... That's all :jumpy: this is my wishlist for last realise :) But my opinion that have not to good bye TS or will be opensource :). (this is realy stupid thought, isnt it?:)) |
Post by spyfrog // Feb 7, 2008, 12:10pm
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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What is happening right now is not bad it is good, it is securing the future of TS, we just have to wait to see what shape of TS is planned. No other business would be able to do this any differently.. Be patient
Yours
IKHandel
I would have agreed with you if Microsoft had bought Truespace with the outspoken plan to develop it to the best 3D program around, competing with Maya like they are going up against Adobe with there new graphic attempt.
However, what we know now is that Microsoft will use Caligari in their Virtual Earth project. This don't sound like a good place for a fully fledged 3D application, this sounds like a place for a small 3D utility. |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 7, 2008, 12:10pm
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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Whilst my previous posts have been somewhat tongue in cheek, this one is quite the reverse.
I believe it would be grossly unfair to prejudge the outcome of this news, and second guessing whilst only natural is also potentially damaging both to individuals, users and companies. It can also be disheartening for both noobs and veterans alike, and perhaps for no valid reason.
I would ask anyone who feels ill informed to consider this.. Are Caligari a bit busy right now? Do Caligari even have permission to give further details at this point? Are all the details even ironed out?
Caligari would not have lasted this long if they didn't care about their users. Even as a new user to TS I have seen the interaction between users and CEO. That says a lot to me, do you believe it has suddenly stopped..... I don't .. not for one minute.
This is a very important time for Caligari and so by default for us it's users. Give them the space they need to do what needs done, THEN and only then, when the details are in place and the background efforts are done, will we be informed. I guess at the end of the day we are talking about trust.. and I refer to my previous point; do you believe the CEO has important things to sort right now for the longterm good of his baby.. I do and wish him all the best.
What is happening right now is not bad it is good, it is securing the future of TS, we just have to wait to see what shape of TS is planned. No other business would be able to do this any differently.. Be patient
Yours
IKHandel
IKHandle, I appreciate what you are saying, but all we want to know is that the rendering side of TrueSpace, what it's been doing since version 1, is still going to be there. With no one from Caligari answering this, that vital part of TrueSpace that made it what it is is obviously being reconsidered. This is what's causing a lot of concern for a lot of us who have invested years in learning and working with this tool. |
Post by Misc // Feb 7, 2008, 12:21pm
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Misc
Total Posts: 59
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.... if Microsoft had bought Truespace with the outspoken plan to develop it....
Did you mean so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE
:D |
Post by TylerZambori // Feb 7, 2008, 12:43pm
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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IKHandle, I appreciate what you are saying, but all we want to know is that the rendering side of TrueSpace, what it's been doing since version 1, is still going to be there. With no one from Caligari answering this, that vital part of TrueSpace that made it what it is is obviously being reconsidered. This is what's causing a lot of concern for a lot of us who have invested years in learning and working with this tool.
why is that the vital part of TS that made it what it is? I thought it was
the real-time and ease of use. That is certainly what interests me.
renderers. I have plenty of renderers. I';m confused here. |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 7, 2008, 12:50pm
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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why is that the vital part of TS that made it what it is? I thought it was
the real-time and ease of use. That is certainly what interests me.
renderers. I have plenty of renderers. I';m confused here.
Many of us here use TrueSpace for artistic ventures. I use it for artwork and game creation. TrueSpace has been rendering since version 1. If that's removed (realtime environments don't need rendering in the traditional sense), then a tool we've learned and used for year has no future in that area and a lot of us are left out in the cold. Imagine if you bought a word processor and it couldn't print! What's the point? |
Post by TylerZambori // Feb 7, 2008, 12:53pm
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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Many of us here use TrueSpace for artistic ventures. I use it for artwork and game creation. TrueSpace has been rendering since version 1. If that's removed (realtime environments don't need rendering in the traditional sense), then a tool we've learned and used for year has no future in that area and a lot of us are left out in the cold. Imagine if you bought a word processor and it couldn't print! What's the point?
well....game creation wants realtime animation, right? especially game creation! |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 12:54pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I see realtime as a recent addition to tS, not something that has been there since version 1. Horse for courses again here; some of us use tS as our main modeller/renderer which is something it clearly aspires to and advertises the fact. As many other programs have developed one area; modelling, compositing, rendering etc. tS remains a jack of all trades and the development of realtime technology as the basis for 7.0 onwards makes it a thinly spread package unable to do any of it's elements as good as a dedicated package can. Vray would seem to be a final 'gasp' in making it a credible package and, for a short time, I believed it was.
I keep looking at the virtual earth stuff and cannot get excited about it, I am interested to see how this will develop alongside tS but I remain apprehensive and will until I hear more details. |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 7, 2008, 12:57pm
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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well....game creation wants realtime animation, right? especially game creation!
I use TrueSpace for FMV and sprite creation. I work with a 2D engine, not a 3D one so realtime doesn't work for me. I need TrueSpace to render.
Paul (Splinters) uses TrueSpace to create artwork for childrens books. What is he to do if TrueSpace's renderer is pulled? What are all us artists to do if the renderer is pulled? |
Post by aidanodr // Feb 7, 2008, 1:05pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Guys,
Simple - stop depending on one app. The 3D landscape heavily uses interoperability, so being able to find ones way around different apps is a good thing.
Spread your wings - If TS is still around - great - you can port stuff back and forth between different apps. Dont be afraid - go forth :)
I did at v6 of TS. I wanted to explore other apps for Character Animation. I now am comfotable enough with Lightwave, Modo and Realsoft 3D [ another app from Amiga days still going strong ]. And another app I decided to get my head around - Blender - get over its UI and it is now an excellent tool with some new stuff like real cloth and a rewritten particle system in svn at the moment.
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 7, 2008, 1:07pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Paul (Splinters) uses TrueSpace to create artwork for childrens books. What is he to do if TrueSpace's renderer is pulled? What are all us artists to do if the renderer is pulled?
What do I do if its pulled ?
Use Kerkythea as my render engine ! Easy to use !
No broken arm realy ! I would miss it though !apart from the
fact that 7.51 and Vray would still work !
Peter |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 1:08pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I think we are digressing a little here. We already have tS7. No-one will come around to your house and take tS from you. If you have tS with Vray (or LW) and use it for your work then you will still be doing that in a years time.
What is worrying is that there may be no more bug fixes for tS, no support for the package as it is but more importantly, no new features to explore in order to enhance your work. I have no problems with the direction it moves in if those three aspects are addressed as well. With Microsoft steering the future of a program, how much resource is available for supporting the 'old' version? |
Post by aidanodr // Feb 7, 2008, 1:15pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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And the press says:
http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2008/02/07/microsoft-buys-3d-animation-firm-caligari-virtual-earth-team
Ohhhh this one should make ye squirm:
http://www.liveside.net/blogs/main/archive/2008/02/07/microsoft-buys-caligari-for-virtual-earth-3d-expansion.aspx
Now that one is rather throw away is it not ...
http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/02/07/microsoft-acquires-caligari
AND NOW FOR THE KILLER:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/131304.asp
"A Microsoft representative says Caligari's technology will be incorporated into future versions of Microsoft Virtual Earth"
So their now, do you all feel more at ease,
Aidan |
Post by jayr // Feb 7, 2008, 1:20pm
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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So their now, do you all feel more at ease,
Aidan
in a word 'no' |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 1:25pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Of course there is the likelihood that aidan was, in fact, being ironic...:rolleyes:
I like reading these news feeds...any other interesting ones? |
Post by jayr // Feb 7, 2008, 1:27pm
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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did you check out the postings on CGTalk? some of them not nice at all... |
Post by spyfrog // Feb 7, 2008, 1:28pm
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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And the press says:
http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2008/02/07/microsoft-buys-3d-animation-firm-caligari-virtual-earth-team
Ohhhh this one should make ye squirm:
http://www.liveside.net/blogs/main/archive/2008/02/07/microsoft-buys-caligari-for-virtual-earth-3d-expansion.aspx
Now that one is rather throw away is it not ...
http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/02/07/microsoft-acquires-caligari
AND NOW FOR THE KILLER:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/131304.asp
"A Microsoft representative says Caligari's technology will be incorporated into future versions of Microsoft Virtual Earth"
So their now, do you all feel more at ease,
Aidan
At ease??
Let me quote:
"I talked to many people at Virtual Earth group and I am convinced that the technical team behind Virtual Earth has a significant, long-term commitment to the 3D Web," Ormandy wrote."
Fromhttp://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2008/02/07/microsoft-buys-3d-animation-firm-caligari-virtual-earth-team
I don't care about the "3D web". The 3D web is a failure as an idea and it have gone nowhere in 10 years. People simply don't want it.
I want my 3D application, not a 3D web. Ormandys talk about the "3D web" and the fact that the Virtual Earth group now controls Caligari make me looking for a replacement for Truespace after version 7.6 |
Post by aidanodr // Feb 7, 2008, 1:30pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Yip Splinters - I was being very very Ironic - that statement from the MS rep says it all. But then it is also glaringly obvious whats going on behind the lines. I said it right from my first post. TS is cannon fodder in the war between MS Virtual Earth and Google Earth.
Over at:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/general-discussion/38479-microsoft-aquires-truespace.html
This was said by Chrono:
"Sorry TS'ers, but it looks like 7.5 will be the last version ever released that had use as a 3D package. With 7.5's increased movement towards "code-modeling" & animation it looks like future TS versions will be heavily re-purposed towards web only creation. This doesn't surprise me at all because the owner has always been pushing TS in that direction for a very long time.
I expect half of the intact staff to be replaced, laterally moved, or fired before mid-08 because they don't have the knowledge, skills, training, experience, or talent to move TS in the direction MS want's for it to become a 'creation tool' for MS's Virtual Earth.
I also expect over 50% of the program to be gutted with most of the polygonal creation tools removed and replaced with MS's new Photosynth software and all renderers but the programmed in render engine & Real Time render engine removed."
Now - are you even MORE at ease :)
Aidan |
Post by manxie // Feb 7, 2008, 1:35pm
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manxie
Total Posts: 76
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I guess microsoft virtual earth is hard to dig, for all of us..:(
Manxie |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 1:41pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I doubt very much that Chrono could know any of that for sure but I do feel myself agreeing with most of what he says...:(
I want to be positive but my gut instinct, which I usually trust, says otherwise but I keep an open mind as to how I might make use of such a new technology...my forte is in teaching though and that is where i was looking for my collaborative experiments. Does Virtual Earth include schools? |
Post by TylerZambori // Feb 7, 2008, 1:45pm
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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well, I always have motionbuilder 5.5 standard version. I know
exactly where that's going: nowhere. But I'm still glad to have it.
modelers and renderers abound everywhere, but not that. |
Post by Improv // Feb 7, 2008, 1:50pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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I was thinking that...if Tom refers to the 'slience from us' then why is Norm saying different? Just who are 'us' now?
Us? "We are Microsoft-you WILL be assimilated!"
That is all for now! ;) |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 1:58pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Us? "We are Microsoft-you WILL be assimilated!"
That is all for now! ;)
That made me laugh..:banana: |
Post by aidanodr // Feb 7, 2008, 1:59pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Guys,
Classic - even talking about it over at the Blender Forums. Cyborg Dragon left this :)
Truespace home basic
Truespace home business
Truespace business
Truespace home advanced
Truespace business basic
Truespace enterprise
Truespace commercial basic
Truespace commercial advanced
Truespace cinematic
Truespace production suite edition
Truespace Ultimate
Truespace business advanced
Truespace freelancer studio
Truespace studio advanced
And it will only run on Vista and have flashy eyecandy that will require a 256 meg GPU
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Aidan |
Post by chrono // Feb 7, 2008, 2:08pm
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chrono
Total Posts: 0
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I doubt very much that Chrono knows any of that for sure but I do feel myself agreeing with most of what he says...:(
Your right. I have as much info, probably even less, then you. But everything I've said so far about this situation has information backing it's conjecture. Like you I want to hope for TS's best but there are just too many negative factors throwing a shadow over things.
The worst thing that could happen would be that you'll have to do what many ex-TS'ers have already done. |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 2:12pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Like you I want to hope for TS's best but there are just too many negative factors throwing a shadow over things
That is exactly how I have felt all day; like a shadow was cast over me. I haven't even found the motivation to use tS even though I need to complete my latest book project. I just feel that I need a ray of light to shine through like Roman adding to his blog and addressing us like he used to about tS7.6 rather than talking about Virtual Earth. |
Post by Improv // Feb 7, 2008, 2:41pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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That made me laugh..:banana:
Good it was meant to-'laughing to keep from crying' as they say!
:-) |
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