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Caligari?...Microsoft?..Calisoft?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Caligari?...Microsoft?..Calisoft? // Roundtable
Post by spacekdet // Feb 8, 2008, 7:50am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I have read many complaints about Microsoft products, but I have never read
that they build interfaces too difficult to learn without a manual guiding you
every step of the way.
Interface, maybe...packaging...not so much.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. (http://gizmodo.com/351518/vista-box-needs-instructions-to-open)
I probably just landed on 'the list' for this post. |
Post by splinters // Feb 8, 2008, 7:55am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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As someone with a particular interest in the tS7 UI, I am curious what will happen to the next version; whatever it may be. I am rather proud of the work I have done for the UI and would be very disappointed if the next major release (in the hands of Microsoft) had little of it there. It is a quirky UI and easily recognisable but I doubt it would fit in with Ms' idea of a UI...but I hope I am wrong.
Not sure if I actually count as part of that development team Roman says will remain intact. I have asked but only received a vague 'wait and see/talk to Roman' response.
I was never hired as a member of Team Caligari so they owe me nothing but I would hate to think all this hard work will go to waste or that those (very) late nights making the icons so that deadlines would be met are worthless now...
Also, given that MS hardly need the cash from a few copies of tS7.6, will they actually allow the program to be finished (properly!) and released this year? I don't want to ressurect the argument about future development/offline rendering etc. but would it allow a program to be released under it's ownership that did not reflect it's corporate strategy or style. I do not think it will scrap it but it may well delay it indefinitely until it can be shaped into a product that fits in with the rest of their range...
I am trying so hard to be positive, I really am, but there are no reassurances at all on these matters....:( |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 8, 2008, 8:33am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Sorry to tell you Paul but from what I heard the next product
will be voice driven !:p
What icons are you talking about ?;):D
Peter |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 8, 2008, 8:38am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Perhaps this has been known for awhile. Half price and significantly reduced prices, Caligari employees visiting the forum that never have before and the premise that Norm has renamed some of the deer around his house as Gates II, Gates III... |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Feb 8, 2008, 8:49am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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[/FONT]
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. (http://gizmodo.com/351518/vista-box-needs-instructions-to-open)
I probably just landed on 'the list' for this post.
Not just the opening of the packaging either! Check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeXAcwriid0
Any room on that naughty step for a little one? |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 8, 2008, 8:55am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Hi WWW !
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha !:D:D:D:banana:
Product design !
Peter |
Post by splinters // Feb 8, 2008, 8:58am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Sorry to tell you Paul but from what I heard the next product
will be voice driven !:p
What icons are you talking about ?;):D
Peter
All of 'em Peter; those for 7.0, 7.1 and 7.5...oh, and those for 7.6 as well...;)
Would hate to see them scrapped as they evolve into vistaspace...even though I quite like the look of Vista icons...:rolleyes: |
Post by chrono // Feb 8, 2008, 9:01am
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chrono
Total Posts: 0
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on the thread over at CGTalk someone mentioned this, that they bought SXI with a purpose in mind, namely, to sell NT as a platform for 3D production. It worked. When they had what they wanted they sold it on.
Yep they got sold off, but it kicked the developers in the collective butt and now XSI is one of the most respected 3D packages out there!
@Wiz, TS will change to become equal to or better than Sketch-up or it may become a mere utility to make Virtual Earth more appealing... who knows!!
@JakeB, yeah TS users may have to come to terms with the idea of a standardized UI..... |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 8, 2008, 9:07am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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To select the Splinter's Icon button, please hold down ctrl-alt-tab-LMB-spacebar-"+" (num pad only.)
After reboot, the icon for the Splinter's icon button will appear under the third level of Mapping icons once the alternate menu is selected (see chapter 57 for details on how to do this.) |
Post by splinters // Feb 8, 2008, 9:10am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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You joke now James but.......;)
EDIT: Please don't think I am so 'self-important' to think that I am anything more than the designer picked from the beta team to make icons, got lucky that Roman liked them and got the job of doing some more...but when you fire up tS, what you see before you make anything or delve into menus is a colourful frame of icons which for the last few years have acted as a working portfolio for my work.
I have always liked making logos as my books demonstrate but I have really honed my icon skills while working for Caligari and I was hoping to hone them further into tS8.
That is all.... |
Post by CdeB // Feb 8, 2008, 9:11am
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CdeB
Total Posts: 160
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I would think with the merger with Microsoft Caligari have lost the ability to make the kind of encouraging statements they might otherwise want to. One of the issues with merging with a big corporation. I suspect that the silence is due to a more restrictive attitude to communication. They may be as frustrated as we are and can't even say so!
I would be surprised (but very happy) if we continue to get updates on software development that we have come to expect with the Captains Blog...
however, for this reason I do not think the silence is necessarily reflecting the end of trueSpace as we know it, just a different company policy..
All in the end we can do is wait...tyvärr |
Post by Paul Boland // Feb 8, 2008, 9:53am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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A few posts back a lot of folks have said that they believe TrueSpace's offline rendering will not disappear. Well, if this is the case, if Caligari has no intension of re-inventing the wheel and releasing TrueSpace aimed at realtime 3D environments, if TrueSpace's offline 3D rendering isn't going anywhere, why, with so many of us here shouting for answers and worried about this, why hasn't one person from Caligari laid this fear to rest?
Agreed, they could be under a NDA now that keeps TrueSpace's new direction quiet, but we're not asking for company secrets, what's new? All we want to know is that the 3D app we've used for so long will be that 3D app we love and not one person for Caligari has confirmed that the offline rendering abilities of TrueSpace aren't going anywhere.
A simple statement like,
"Caligari and Microsoft are working together to take TrueSpace in a whole new direction, but it's core 3D rendering features will not change."
would do a lot to lay to rest a lot of fears.
For me, the fact that confirmation that existing TrueSpace features are safe, has not been given by Caligari, that, to me, says that they are not safe and TrueSpace 7.51 could be the last version of TrueSpace as we know it. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 8, 2008, 10:07am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Now your starting to see the problem. Everyone keeps saying wait for them to respond. Wait? Wait for what? If they won't respond now what will change later?
Does anyone here know is Microsoft still owns shares of either Avid or Softimage? If they do I guess we can start talking about that software too since it is from the same (cough) Company. |
Post by splinters // Feb 8, 2008, 10:12am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I have speculated as much as anyone but there are a few facts to consider.
1. For now the news is that Microsoft has acquired Caligari, there are days worth of news and rumours to feed the net yet so no rush to add further details I guess.
2. If Microsoft now own Caligari, then Roman cannot make any promises he cannot actually keep. Unless he has been given some special role, he is no longer in charge of making decisions so cannot say anything anyway. I may be wrong but bear that in mind as you ask for an 'official answer'.
3. Roman is busy with meetings (not speculation, I was told this) and you cannot realistically expect any further blog until the dust settles and the excitement subsides...or until he arrives back at the office at least.
4. If I were Roman, you would not see me for champagne bubbles this weekend or for the next few days after that.
5. Even then, he will need quite some time to adjust to his new role and to consider the next step. I doubt very much they would buy Caligari and then say "carry on as you are and we will get in touch in a few months".
6. The Beta testers know little more than you or I at the moment. I still work as if under a NDA but from what I can tell, no one has any more information then is here nor have they ceased testing 7.6
It really pains me to have to say all this as I have cried for details as much as you all have but if you won the lottery tomorrow, would your first thought be to log in here and discuss it for a few hours?
Not me, I would log in make a nice statement then book a holiday, buy a car etc. etc. and you might see me in a few weeks...or months.
The Euro Lottery is 95 million pounds tonight so fingers crossed I might get to put that theory to the test...;) |
Post by manxie // Feb 8, 2008, 10:17am
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manxie
Total Posts: 76
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Hey Splinters if you win you can buy caligari back from ms, well just a though:D |
Post by Igor K Handel // Feb 8, 2008, 10:23am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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I note there are 2 icons absent from the top Caligari banner, or am I becomming delusional as well as paranoid?
IK |
Post by jayr // Feb 8, 2008, 10:37am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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nope, i think something has gone |
Post by Steinie // Feb 8, 2008, 10:38am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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iSpace button disappeared. One down two to go...:confused: |
Post by jayr // Feb 8, 2008, 10:42am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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iSpace button disappeared. One down two to go...:confused:
does that give us till monday then?
Joking aside, i'm not surprised it was outdated anyway |
Post by JimB // Feb 8, 2008, 10:49am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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iSpace button disappeared. One down two to go...:confused:
Was'nt there a GameSpace button there as well? |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Feb 8, 2008, 11:12am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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I've been disappointed with 7.5 since about three days after its release, and still don't like it. I went back to 5.2 and 6.1 for what little modeling I've done recently. I had little hope that 7.5 would be "fixed" to the point I'd want to upgrade again, but I'd say almost assuredly that the microsoft acquisition means that there will be no more work pursing a TS that anyone using it now would recognize.
While Sketchup has a lot of nice things going for it, (yes, I have been using it quite a bit lately), look to see TS get de-constructed and re-molded to fit an image that will be quite like Sketchup, which is easy for just about anyone to pick up and start modeling simple structures. The TS interface takes quite a bit of getting used to...I haven't used it for a couple of months now, and I'd probably be lost getting back into it again! |
Post by frootee // Feb 8, 2008, 11:21am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Everyone;
MS did not just pop into Caligari offices the other day with a check made out to Roman Ormandy for the purchase of Caligari Corporation. This has been going on for quite some time. Longer than we all may think.
All I can say is, the beta team is testing as normal. No radical changes in the course are there. I do not see why anything will get yanked. That would take time and money. The devs would need to waste time removing code, then beta testers would waste even more time to verify that the functionality has been successfully removed; rather than confirming that new functionality does indeed work, and fixed bugs are indeed fixed. This would result in delayed release dates wouldn't it? And after all, time is money. More than that in this particular situation it appears.
Seems to me that, in addition to the new Virtual Earth capabilities to be supported, truespace will continue to be developed as before. I simply do not see anything getting removed. Removed functionality means, high user attrition. And I seriously doubt MS nor Caligari want that.
Later,
Froo |
Post by Ambrose // Feb 8, 2008, 11:33am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Splinters I think you should watch your tounge ;)
I know this is the way you're but sometimes it might be good to think another time before you spoke, your very onnest and I like that nothing wrong.
But as said I still want you in the icon team, don't lose that ok ;)
Look at the bright side...
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 8, 2008, 11:37am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Splinters I think you should watch your tounge ;)
SeYa/Ambrose...
Wouldn't that make him cross-eyed? |
Post by behzad // Feb 8, 2008, 11:54am
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behzad
Total Posts: 173
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When I bought Hexagon and Carrara it was owned by Eovia, shortly after it was sold to DAZ. Lot of people like you guys were scared of its future, for the longest time nothing (updates) came out. They had let go of the Hex team but kept the carrara team.
Some members of hex team were upset like our friend splinter here. My recommendation is nothing is guaranteed. luckily DAZ team has come out with updates for both programs and is very committed to Carrara and Hex.
Splinter like you said before you already have these two great programs why not jump ships and let go of your bitter experiences.
Time to move on.. |
Post by jayr // Feb 8, 2008, 12:04pm
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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don't know if splinters is bitter, just worried. but i don't want to words in his mouth.
If like a lot of people have said this has been in the planning stages for a long time (which it probably has) i would have expected a longer statement in the captains blog, the one we got really does leave too much unsaid. |
Post by splinters // Feb 8, 2008, 12:26pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ambrose, I will interpret your comments as your use of English rather than an instruction to 'shut up' which is what ' watch your tongue' usually means around these parts.
If not, than I am sorry but I will not keep quiet. I am not bitter, just confused and I will become even more confused if I do not discuss my thoughts here in this forum with people who share similar concerns. I certainly have no 'bitter experience'; I am a loyal tS user (offical?) who has enjoyed plenty of positive coverage from Caligari and it has been an absolute pleasure to work with Roman and the team.
I am happy with the mentality that no news is good news regarding my work for Caligari and besides I am very 'unimportant' in the hierarchy here, even if MS were not involved I am pretty much at the end of the food chain simply making an icon occasionally for a feature already written into the code so tester can simply hit a button to get into that feature. I have no delusions there...I just help out really...you just see my work on the screen but the dev's make the magic.
My only concern is who I am working for now...if at all, I never doubted anyone's integrity and never said anything defamatory. Yes, I am honest and outspoken and I am flattered Ambrose that you like my icon work enough for me to continue. I am just suprised by your response here and that anyone would think I am anything but simply confused!
Behzad, I teach 30 hours a week and try to complete some contracts in my spare time. I have 20+ books that need 'scrubbing up' if they are to be up to the standard of my latest book, which, ironically also needs completing if I am to send to a publisher.
I have a young family and try to have a social life. The only reason I have not jumped ship is because I don't have any time at all to learn another program, and while I am learning I am not necessarily making. Catch 22.
If I am on a sinking ship (in terms of future development of tS) then I will have to recreate the opening scenes of Pirates of the Caribbean and step off at the very last minute....I just hope I can keep sailing this ship...:o |
Post by KeithC // Feb 8, 2008, 12:37pm
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Was'nt there a GameSpace button there as well?
Yep; that's missing as well. Maybe they're in the middle of making a few changes to the site, and haven't put them back yet?
-Keith |
Post by JimB // Feb 8, 2008, 12:39pm
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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Yep; that's missing as well. Maybe they're in the middle of making a few changes to the site, and haven't put them back yet?
-Keith
I have a strong feeling they are not comming back. |
Post by behzad // Feb 8, 2008, 12:41pm
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behzad
Total Posts: 173
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Splinter I understand you very well. I too worked for a company for 11 years that let everyone go. It was sad but at the same time an opportunity in disguise.
Your situation I can sympathize with having children to feed is also does not make it easier. I apologize if I used the wrong term bitter, maybe the lack of communication between caligari and you has made you a bit worried. |
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