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Google+SketchUp >> Microsoft+TrueSpace
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Google+SketchUp >> Microsoft+TrueSpace // Roundtable
Post by tSplorer // Feb 6, 2008, 4:26pm
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tSplorer
Total Posts: 27
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Other than the virtual map thing, that's the other connection I can think of from the recent news development. The thing that doesn't match for me is that SketchUp and TrueSpace are apples and oranges. The former being easier and the latter more complicated to use, which is understandable because one is more than just a 3d app comparable to highend apps.
My question is, is there any chance that a lighter, more streamlined version of TrueSpace would come out of this? Sort of a more advanced SketchUp version, yet as easy to use as SU?
Just an honest question. |
Post by Délé // Feb 6, 2008, 4:34pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I think the only thing making tS more complicated to use right now is the bridge and split architecture. Once it's back to a single program, I think tS will be more user friendly again. |
Post by ghost--scout // Feb 6, 2008, 6:57pm
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ghost--scout
Total Posts: 85
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There's also gamespace you could look at, or gamespace light(since it's free) to start out learning before you poured money in to something. I'm kinda biased cause truespace 7.5 has really taken to me :) |
Post by trueBlue // Feb 7, 2008, 11:59am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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VirtualEarth's SketchUp?
http://www.3dvia.com/shapeit/ |
Post by splinters // Feb 7, 2008, 12:13pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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interesting...but if that is the case, how does tS figure in 3D creation for MS? |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 7, 2008, 12:20pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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This is pure speculation but what keeps TS
from being used as a simple 3d draw tool !
Sketchup is of that breed ..... Moi 3d is .....and whats so bad
about simplification of 3d creation.
Why should TS not be the Sketchup of MS company !
Doesnt keep TS from being more !
And yes this kind of tool can easily be used with a pen tablet too !
Peter |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 7, 2008, 12:25pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Why, it "Pimps it up"!, of course. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 7, 2008, 4:37pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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interesting...but if that is the case, how does tS figure in 3D creation for MS?
Does Sketchup do character animation? Didn't think so. Can Sketchup create walking moving avatars? Nope. Also does Sketchup already support the use of integrated offline raytracing rendereres like Vray, LW dribble.....?nope.
Where can we possibly find an already existing, efficient, exciting all round application capable of using DX9 and 10 technology? ..... umm....... |
Post by Délé // Feb 7, 2008, 5:08pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Just like everyone else, I'm not certain how tS and Virtual Earth will work together. However, I'm very familiar with the online and scripting capabilities of tS. When it comes to online 3d content, there is absolutely no match between Sketchup and tS. TrueSpace blows Sketchup out of the water.
When I think of this union, I imagine something like Google Earth combined with Second Life. With Virtual Earth and tS, I see the ability to not only view maps in 3d, but to actually enter a virtual 3d copy of our world along with other people and interactive elements. Imagine searching for a store, then entering that store and seeing their products on the shelves and talking with a sales person without having to leave your home. You don't have to waste the time for the trip unless you're interested in buying. Or perhaps you just purchase the item right in the world and it's shipped to you.
Not only can you find places or things, you can actually talk and interact with other people that are around. You can ask questions about places. Perhaps even meet friends and play games in Central Park. Or maybe you decide that you want to go to the great pyramids in Egypt and learn about them. Or perhaps you just want to hang out with some friends and the Moi on Easter Island.
I'm not saying that this is what is planned. I'm just saying that with Virtual Earth and tS this is a very realistic scenario. |
Post by transient // Feb 7, 2008, 5:19pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Does Sketchup do character animation? Didn't think so. Can Sketchup create walking moving avatars? Nope. Also does Sketchup already support the use of integrated offline raytracing rendereres like Vray, LW dribble.....?nope.
But realistically, how many animators are there on these forums using truespace?
One of the fundamental issues web3d has faced is the lack of available talent. In effect, your competing with the games industry for skill sets.
It's not an insurmountable issue, but it has a major impact on the dream of a web revolution. In the end, who is going to do the fighting? How are you going to afford the incomes for the artists used to fat salaries making cyborgs and convince them to make virtual shopping malls?
Like I've said elsewhere, I lived and breathed web3d since the invention of vrml, and I'm still not convinced of the coming web3d ragnarok, any more than I was back then (actually in the beginning I was a lot more optimistic).
I don't doubt that this could be an opportunity for people who want a career in creating online worlds, but what about the rest of us? Regular 3d work still presents a major slice of the market, and vray is at the pinnacle of this market. Why throw it away when all vray needs is some tlc?
I think like others I'll refrain from criticism when I get given a good reason to. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 7, 2008, 5:42pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I bought into the Caligari promise that improved Model tools would be moved over to WorkSpace side and the Bridge would disappear. We would have one interface, one real time renderer with an option to buy VRay. I fully expect Caligari to deliver that promise. My belief was this would be version 7.6. Lighting problems would be addressed, VRay bugs fixed, Booleans would be available, missing tools in place. I as a loyal Customer was around almost from the beginning. I remember Caligari when it was the "software" You designed it and I used it bugs and all. We are your loyal customers who stuck around thick and thin. Others left you for "better" places. We believed in your future and stuck with it.
You owe us one.
I don't care about maps, Earth Maps, MS. or any other money maker they want to pursue. None of that will help me create my art.
You know as well as I trueSpace is not finished. If you want to explore and conquer the Web Commerce be my guest. Just finish what you promised us.
You owe us one. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 7, 2008, 6:14pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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How many animators using tS? Right now, probably not that many. Why? tS amin tools are still a WIP. What is needed to further develop those tools, make then more robust, efficient and easy to use so more people want to animate with them? Development, which costs money. Who has more money that God? Microsoft!
This seems like a marriage made in heaven to me!
Re competing with the games industry for skill sets - that absolutely will not last. The line between creating 3d animated/illustrated content for games and for the future virtual worlds of the Net is a temporary thing if it exists at all.
The majority of the local high schools (teaching 13 to 18 year olds) offer animation courses for the kids. ALL of the higher education places, Universities and Polytechnics and private teaching institutions offer diploma level and even Doctorate level course in .... animation and computing!
Artists making fat salaries creating cyborgs will continue to do so - business men and savvy entrepreneurs will pay some college kid to build the virtual shopping mall, and a marketing expert to sell the cyborgs the artist creates to all those who want cyborgs - whether for game content or for personalised avatars.
Web3d died through lack of bandwidth - but the demand is still there (Second Life and the Sims are examples of this. Today that bandwidth is increasingly available - the next generation of school leavers will have an exponentially larger percentage of 3d trained people.
Regular 3d work - especially product illustration - is will always be with us and so will the need for high quality illustration and the tools to create it. Removing such functionality from trueSpace makes no sense .
But realistically, how many animators are there on these forums using truespace?
One of the fundamental issues web3d has faced is the lack of available talent. In effect, your competing with the games industry for skill sets.
It's not an insurmountable issue, but it has a major impact on the dream of a web revolution. In the end, who is going to do the fighting? How are you going to afford the incomes for the artists used to fat salaries making cyborgs and convince them to make virtual shopping malls?
Like I've said elsewhere, I lived and breathed web3d since the invention of vrml, and I'm still not convinced of the coming web3d ragnarok, any more than I was back then (actually in the beginning I was a lot more optimistic).
I don't doubt that this could be an opportunity for people who want a career in creating online worlds, but what about the rest of us? Regular 3d work still presents a major slice of the market, and vray is at the pinnacle of this market. Why throw it away when all vray needs is some tlc?
I think like others I'll refrain from criticism when I get given a good reason to. |
Post by transient // Feb 7, 2008, 6:29pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Web3d died through lack of bandwidth - but the demand is still there (Second Life and the Sims are examples of this. Today that bandwidth is increasingly available - the next generation of school leavers will have an exponentially larger percentage of 3d trained people.
I'm not going to argue the point after this, since you've obviously made up your mind to support Caligari no matter what.
However, the idea that lack of bandwith was the only reason web3d didn't take over is entirely false. What we're hearing is revolution this and that, not "potentially viable niche product". I've lived the propaganda, and it hasn't changed.
Maybe if Pixar or Weta decide to become forerunners of the socialist web3d revolution (salutes), I'll sign up. Until then, I'm afraid all I want is what I thought I was buying from Caligari in the first place.
I'm still hopeful they'll come through, but I'm incredulous at the lack of respect they're giving to their long-time loyal users (of which I'm not one admittedly). |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 7, 2008, 7:00pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I don't think this is about supporting Caligari no matter what - it's about seeing what practical value there is in what is.
Perhaps the bandwidth issue is entirely false - I'm no expert after all - but what about the other points I made. Picking one point and calling it false does not negate the other points.
As to your last remark - I could say I'm incredulous about the lack of respect shown in the other direction.
Everything I do on my PC's everyday, is made possible by the people at Microsoft who wrote my OS (winXP) and the People at Caligari, who wrote my favourite piece of software.
Both these companies could turn around at any time and do something that I as a consumer do not like or appreciate - that's the way the world is.
Equally, both these companies exist to make money - which they do by striving to give the people what they want as much as is humanly and fiscally possible. Why would anyone want to not support that?
Pixar and Weta? I'm a huge fan if those guys but realistically they're a tiny part of the overall 3d world as it is. Pixar and Weta are known via the movie industry but the 3d world is not just about movies. The most common use of 3d is for product visualisation - advertising - which be around long after Pixar and Weta are gone. I'm not going to argue the point after this, since you've obviously made up your mind to support Caligari no matter what.
However, the idea that lack of bandwith was the only reason web3d didn't take over is entirely false. What we're hearing is revolution this and that, not "potentially viable niche product". I've lived the propaganda, and it hasn't changed.
Maybe if Pixar or Weta decide to become forerunners of the socialist web3d revolution (salutes), I'll sign up. Until then, I'm afraid all I want is what I thought I was buying from Caligari in the first place.
I'm still hopeful they'll come through, but I'm incredulous at the lack of respect they're giving to their long-time loyal users (of which I'm not one admittedly). |
Post by transient // Feb 7, 2008, 7:19pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Perhaps the bandwidth issue is entirely false - I'm no expert after all - but what about the other points I made. Picking one point and calling it false does not negate the other points.
I didn't say the bandwith issue was false, just the theory that it was the only reason web3d failed to perpetuate past the quirky niche phase.
Pixar and Weta have the creative muscle to really turn heads, and the ip's to make the masses take notice. The most common use of 3d is entertainment. It trumps product visualization and advertising many times over. Not that these aren't important - but can you base a web3d revolution on advertising? I don't think so.
I'm sorry, but I feel arguing with you is pointless, and I don't have time to do a point-by-point forum dance today. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade - if you really want to believe, then be my guest. Maybe boundless optimism is what's needed for this to work.
As I've already said, my concerns are more the woeful communication issues we're currently experiencing with regards to Truespace's dire need for bug fixes (and arguably upgrades) to it's non-"revolutionary" aspects. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 7, 2008, 7:54pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Fair enough Transient. I wasn't actually aware we were arguing - I thought we were discussing.
Re your question "can you base a web3d revolution on advertising?". I think that you can't base any sort of revolution without advertising! You can create all the entertainment you want but it's useless if you don't tell other people it's there - that's called advertising.
It's said that the web really took off because of the porn industry - which may be a true statement and also fits your entertainment category in a wider sense - but that industry is inseperable from the advertising of that industry.
Which is why real world companies invest in Second Life virtual properties - so they can advertise.
Again, I don't think I'm being boundlessly optimistic (though that may be because of my medication!!) - I think I'm being as realistic as anyone else here and my reality, like yours, is just as valid as anyone else's.
And in my reality I've never experienced anything even remotely approaching 'woeful communication issues' with Caligari - in fact I consider their communication to be first class. They don't always say what I want to hear but that is the right of all of us. I rarely say what others want to hear :D
Saying "Sorry we can't answer that question right now" is not woeful communication - it's abundantly clear - even if it's not what the questioner wants to hear.I didn't say the bandwith issue was false, just the theory that it was the only reason web3d failed to perpetuate past the quirky niche phase.
Pixar and Weta have the creative muscle to really turn heads, and the ip's to make the masses take notice. The most common use of 3d is entertainment. It trumps product visualization and advertising many times over. Not that these aren't important - but can you base a web3d revolution on advertising? I don't think so.
I'm sorry, but I feel arguing with you is pointless, and I don't have time to do a point-by-point forum dance today. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade - if you really want to believe, then be my guest. Maybe boundless optimism is what's needed for this to work.
As I've already said, my concerns are more the woeful communication issues we're currently experiencing with regards to Truespace's dire need for bug fixes (and arguably upgrades) to it's non-"revolutionary" aspects. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 8, 2008, 1:54am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Does trueSpace still exist? Not a tough question Wizard. No Communication about that one issue IS BAD Communication. |
Post by spyfrog // Feb 8, 2008, 2:13am
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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Which is why real world companies invest in Second Life virtual properties - so they can advertise.
I have to disagree Wizard. Companies invested in Second Life because it was surrounded by a huge amount of hype. Now, when the hype more or less has died off, the investments has also died off.
The hype from Second Life moved to Facebook and everyone started to invest in that - now that hype seam to be over.
None of this hypes produced anything valuable for the companies.
I believe that the 3D web is a pipe dream. The bandwidth has been here for at least 5 years, the GPU power also. The 3D web don't take off since it don't offer anything that people in general want. I have yet to see a single credible business case developed for it. |
Post by Délé // Feb 8, 2008, 2:42am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I can't say for sure, I've only peeked, but I think most if not all of these companies are still active in SL:
http://www.nbhorizons.com/list.htm |
Post by spyfrog // Feb 8, 2008, 2:48am
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Total Posts: 181
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I can't say for sure, I've only peeked, but I think most if not all of these companies are still active in SL:
http://www.nbhorizons.com/list.htm
Yes, but do they do any business there? Do their presence in SL generate any income for them? Does it help their business? |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 8, 2008, 2:50am
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Total Posts: 2566
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This is what I imagine will happen in the future. Sorry, I'm a dreamer. :D
First, once Caligari Software is integrated with Live3D maps, one can go to a place and look for a store.
The Store Management and its vendors can design a store that is virtual. (i.e. - the ultimate in warehouse stores - doesn't exist but in shared space)
Example of Customer Interface - of course it could be fancier with more options, but just some thoughts that popped into my head. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 8, 2008, 2:52am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Does trueSpace still exist? Not a tough question Wizard. No Communication about that one issue IS BAD Communication.
Sheesh! Yeah Bob, I agree, it's not a tough question at all - it's a silly question, right up there with "Hey Roman are you going to gnaw your own arm off with your teeth? We the customers demand to know"!.
Did you read Romans post's in the Captains Blog?
2008 will bring product introductions at least as significant as trueSpace7.5 brought in 2007. We will be removing last legacy components left in the code, freeing it to fly with 64 bit support, even better multi-core support and significant new functionality.
I cannot yet discuss individual new features specifically, other than to say that they will be great and that they will improve functionality in all the existing main areas. trueSpace7.5 already proved that our new architecture allows us to add new functionality quickly.
What is even more important is that this architecture is open, and our growing community of developers, scripters and progressive artists will have a new kind of online 3D environment where they will be able to add their value to Caligari content and grow our comunity in important new directions.
I firmly believe that 2008 will be the year when our new architecture will fully shine making everyone in the industry take notice - and I mean everyone!
And in his latest post:
You know me and my ambitions for trueSpace and web-based 3D collaboration. Let me tell you right away that there were no compromises I had to make to accommodate our vision within the Virtual Earth platform, in fact I was challenged to increase the scope of our vision. I talked to many people at Virtual Earth group and I am convinced that the technical team behind Virtual Earth has a significant, long-term commitment to the 3D Web.
At the same time you will be pleased to hear that our development team and tightly knit community of Beta testers will stay the same as before, only now we will have more resources to rely on, larger market to consider and I hope more fun doing that.
The future is bright for all of us! (My emphasis obviously)
Does he say "trueSpace is doomed? No he does not. Does he say "So long suckers, Bibiana and I are off to our private Caribbean Island!"? No he does not. Does he say "Mwa ha ha! At last we can get rid of those pesky raytracers like LW and Vray"? Again, no he does not.
What he does say is "our development team and tightly knit community of Beta testers will stay the same as before," and he says "now we will have more resources to rely on" and he says, "The future is bright for all of us!" and he says "better multi-core support and significant new functionality.".
Can you explain to me what is unclear about that? It seems pretty damn clear to me.
I'd respectfully suggest that anyone who is unclear about what has been said is simply reading more into it than was actually intended (we all know THAT never happens on the Net, right? :rolleyes:).
I'm obviously putting my own spin on what's been said but I'm sure as hell not wasting any of my precious time stressing myself out over some things that haven't been said.
Failing to read what's written strikes me as a far better candidate for 'bad communication' than failing to answer silly questions. |
Post by transient // Feb 8, 2008, 3:03am
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I know I'm not mentally disabled, and neither is Steinie (I'm guessing;)).
Maybe if a truespace ambassador is concerned perhaps it's better to listen, than dictate to them (or anybody else) whether they should be worried or not. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 8, 2008, 3:10am
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Steinie
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The first quote was Before MS bought them. I find it interesting that you are reading between the lines because you failed to highlight this one...
"our vision within the Virtual Earth platform,"
Doesn't sound like trueSpace to me.
Here is an easier question, how many times did he say trueSpace?
Why is everything hush hush about trueSpace?
I'm not asking questions about their new direction. You are assuming Roman is talking about the same application in both your quotes.
My only concern is about the code I have now and what will become of it. If the volume of post are any indicator I'm not alone.
Edit: This has nothing to do with Wizard who I respect. If I didn't care about tS as much as I do Silly questions wouldn't be asked at all. |
Post by jayr // Feb 8, 2008, 3:12am
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Untill we get confirmation we don't know whats going on. We don't know for sure if truespaceis going to be broken up this year/ next year. We don't know if truespace is going to get massive investment and become one of the big boys of 3d. WE JUST DONT KNOW! it's just guess work on all sides.
We need a statement from someone at caligari or microsoft that isn't all bussiness talk and give clear assurances/ confirmationto clear things up. |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 8, 2008, 3:23am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Don't make me separate you boys - behave yourselves :D |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 8, 2008, 3:33am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I have to disagree Wizard. Companies invested in Second Life because it was surrounded by a huge amount of hype. Now, when the hype more or less has died off, the investments has also died off.
The hype from Second Life moved to Facebook and everyone started to invest in that - now that hype seam to be over.
None of this hypes produced anything valuable for the companies.
I believe that the 3D web is a pipe dream. The bandwidth has been here for at least 5 years, the GPU power also. The 3D web don't take off since it don't offer anything that people in general want. I have yet to see a single credible business case developed for it.
Good response spyfrog! A valid point indeed. I however believe a 3d web is inevitable. I read science magazines and I read science fiction and these days there's genuinely not much difference! Virtual digital 3d realities are an inevitable outgrowth of the interaction of market forces and technological advancement.
Remember when no-one would buy a digital camera because they weren't as good as film cameras? Hell I can remember folk saying they would never buy a cassette tape because they weren't as good as records. At the beginning of the telephone's history they said no-one would ever use them. At the beginning of the steam era the 'experts' claimed trains would never work because the human body would die if it went faster than a horse could carry it.
So whilst you've very successfully countered one of my points I have yet to be convinced that 3d virtual reality is going to go away.
Even if the Microsoft/Caligari venture fails dismally I firmly believe someone else will develop the means to create 3d virtual realities.
Go and read the stories written by the professional visionaries - William Gibson, Neale Stephenson and Richard Morgan and many others have all written compelling and feasible stories involving humans interfacing with 3d virtual realities.
Remember, no-one can tell you what the Matrix is, Neo. |
Post by prodigy // Feb 8, 2008, 3:42am
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What can i see here?
1) two fronts.. the Chilled side, that all is ok! everything is fine..
and the other, who are like crazy searching a better answer..
Both sides has right depending if and how truespace touch your life as a way of life (for work, for play, for release your mind from problems, for create a game, for learn something new, or just to come into a forum and share your artistic work)
SO, Let's get ready to rumbleeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WAIT!! who is the referee?? hoo Caligari, but is not here.. so we can't start the fight..;)
Im trying to enter less as possible into the forum cos i very deeply sad to see how my caligari family fall into a chaos..
So please, respect for those who are worried for the future of truespace cos we spend years, and money here.
If you play with truespace, ok for you cos you may think OK! i can create fly simulator X planes with truespace..
Dream is too easy.. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Feb 8, 2008, 3:51am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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A 3d shop online is close to pointless. When i want to order something I don't want to have to wander around a virtual store looking for that item. I want to be able to just see it listed in a simple clear way and then purchase.
Why would I want to add the disadvantages of street or mall shopping to my online life? I waste enough time online without having to walk everywhere. lol
Now being able to walk around a virtual Cairo museum or something...That would appeal to me. Bit like Google Earth but instead of photos dotted all over actual places to visit.
Thats where I see a benefit to online 3d. Not shopping. One thing that I saw from Microsoft was the photo thing that melds photos of a tourist attraction so that you could pretty much wander around. That was stunning.
Mike R |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 8, 2008, 4:19am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I know I'm not mentally disabled, and neither is Steinie (I'm guessing;)).
Maybe if a truespace ambassador is concerned perhaps it's better to listen, than dictate to them (or anybody else) whether they should be worried or not.
I wouldn't dream to dictate to anyone, least of all to Steinie whom I consider to be my friend. I'm not sure where the issue of mental stability comes into it but I'm not telling anyone not to worry - I'm saying that I'm not worried - what others do is their choice not mine.
If someone can show me a good compelling reason to be worried then I will worry along with the rest of them - I'm as heavily emotionally invested in trueSpace as anyone else after all.:D
@ Steinie - Bob I apologise if I was a little over the top with my earlier post. There's been a lot of negativity around recently and it's messin' with my yoga, ya know?
Anyway Bob, reading between the lines of your last post you appear to believe that Romans last post somehow negates everything he's ever said beforehand. I can see absolutely no evidence for that and in fact I see clear evidence to the contrary - as I underlined in the earlier post. I'm sure if you go back and start from the very first Captains Blog you'll find trueSpace mentioned far more often than Virtual Earth.
It seems perfectly natural to me that Roman would talk about VE more than tS. I get a new toy I want to talk about it. Roman gets to play with the big boys (I think we can all agree MS qualifies as a big boy). That was his news and that's what he wanted to tell us.
But he also took the time to say 'no compromise' and 'the development team would stay the same' and so on.
You say "You are assuming Roman is talking about the same application in both your quotes. " - Yes I am. but aren't your fears based on the assumption that he's not talking about the same application? Really, I see no evidence for that and until such time as I see a Captains Blog saying 'Sorry Guys, trueSpace is dead' I can see no valid reason to be concerned.
jayr is right - at this stage "we just don't know". We can spend time expressing our fears about that lack of certainty and we can try to make some intelligent extrapolations based on what we do know until we obtain further concrete information. I know which of those two pastimes I find the most rewarding and clearly I'm not the only one. At the same time it seems there are plenty of folk who prefer to worry.
Worrying is like a rocking chair - it gives you something to do but doesn't get you anywhere.
One of the lessons I've learned in this life: At least 90% of the things we worry about never happen. The things that do get you are the things you never see coming. Everyone worried about all out Nuclear war between the USA and the USSR.... never happened. Everyone worried about the Y2K bug causing the end of the world - didn't happen.
Trust me if your fears turn out to be real I'll be as pissed off as the rest of you but as I've said, I see no good reason to worry and plenty of reasons to be optimistic.
If I had any power to dictate to anyone I would say "Your great and illustrious dictator orders you to chill out and stop worrying and wait and see what happens next - what ever it is you can be sure it'll be interesting!!:D |
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