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4 weeks with no Captain's Blog entry?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
4 weeks with no Captain's Blog entry? // Roundtable
Post by Norm // Mar 14, 2008, 6:48am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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... rewire the house ... hmmm
The house is already wired. What folks do in the Link Editor is rewire portions and offer a different function. For most part, all you have to know to do is "detach" the panel so it shows up in the stack on right. Any sliders or buttons some kind soul has created and shared, are available for use. No journeyman's ticket required :)
Everything you see in the interface is also contained in the Link Editor. You don't have to explore the Link Editor, just have the understanding that the Link Editor extends the power of users who venture into it. Down the road you will see all flavor of tools (scripts) surface as users and developers create them. Sure some will have easier interfaces and better work-flow than others, but they will all serve a function or purpose of some kind.
I believe you folks will enjoy all the tools that we are working on. Whether you are into the Link Editor or not. :) |
Post by KeithC // Mar 14, 2008, 7:12am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Not having looked around the house here too much (pun intended), is there a place where people can share their settings and scripts with regard to what's being discussed here?
I haven't had much time to keep up with what's going on in the Beta side of the house, so I can't comment on much (even if I could, there's that little NDA thing). But from a game developer's perspective, I've been thinking about adding TS7 to my Lightwave. Things are looking pretty interesting the more I look into it all; once we get confirmation of where everything's heading with respect to the whole MS deal, I'll probably make a decision.
-Keith |
Post by frootee // Mar 14, 2008, 8:02am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hi Keith.
For scripts, LE creations, etc. look in these forums:
The Scriptorium
The Interactive Artwork forum
The Collaboration Forum
The Garage |
Post by KeithC // Mar 14, 2008, 11:09am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Thanks Frootee; I figured you guys probably had all that covered already. ;)
-Keith |
Post by frootee // Mar 14, 2008, 11:40am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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well, one thing that has not been done yet is consolidating all these scripts into one Huge ZipBall, which may be handy. I dunno... I wonder how big that would be? There's probably a few thousand of these little scripts and objects and scene files scattered all over the place here. It would be good to collect the best nuggets into a single zipfile but the hard part is picking them out; so it may be best to just get ALL of them and put them into a huge ZipBall (on Unix they're called Tarballs... :) ) and categorize them; sort them according to function and use. That may save time searching for examples of working scripts and such in these forums.
I wonder if there is any interest in that sort of thing. Maybe a poll is in order. |
Post by rrf // Mar 14, 2008, 12:01pm
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Norm,
Thanks for that info - (I'm one of the 'LE challenged'), looking forward to the new tools :)
rf |
Post by Johny // Mar 15, 2008, 3:31am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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We all can explorer all tS7.51 feature without LE. But with LE we can create our own new features. And with LE we also can recreate an existing feature if we dont like one that come with tS7.51 :D |
Post by prodigy // Mar 15, 2008, 3:45am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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101 % agree... |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 15, 2008, 5:02am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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@JamesMC - re "Having the various node icons is powerful and very capable, however, it is not intuitive work."
James - I agree with you but only to a point. It's not immediately intuitive but once you become familiar with the way the LE works I think you'll find it is as intuitive as any other method of working. I have a range of different softs that have LE type node editing options and in each case the node editing allows more power than the direct interface approach.
When you break it all down you will find that any type of work with a computer involves a very limited set of actions - Mouse operations, keyboard operations and combinations of the two. Whats the difference between entering a numeric value in a box on the LE or on the Object info panel for example? You're either making logical mouse operations or entering alphanumerics into a relevant field depending on the context.
For me the power of the link editor (which I've only dabbled with) is that - once you are familiar with the conventions used - it becomes extremely logical and intuitive to use.
James has it occured to you that it will almost certainly be easier to learn to use trueSpaces Link Editor to augment your workflow options than it will be to learn an entirely new application? A new app will quite probably also have it's own node editing options - MojoWorld and Lightwave are both apps I use alongside tS which also have node editors.
At first I didn't like it anymore than anyone else however it doesn't take much to see that node editing systems are here to stay in many areas of computing. Why? Because they work well, are efficient at compiling complex groups of operations and (again once one learns the conventions) are easy to use.
When I was learning to play guitar I avoided learning bar chords - because they are hard to learn and hurt my fingers. I developed a real resistance to them and tried to use open chords at all times. This severely limited my options - specially when playing and jamming with others. Eventually I realised that to progress I would need to learn bar chords (or Barre chords as it's sometimes spelled). Once I committed to learning them I found they were not as difficult as I'd made them out to be and additionally, learning one bar chord shape gave me access to a dozen chords at once depending on where I place the shape. Bar chords are a more powerful and flexible way of playing a guitar.
Remembering that lesson is what compelled me to refuse to let the LE become a stumbling block when I could make it a stepping stone. I'm not saying you (or any other LE phobic person) should do what I do if you don't want to - I'm just saying what works for me in the hope that it helps! :D |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 15, 2008, 5:08am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I see your point Wizard, but (here comes the big butt...)
If I want to be productive in making a twisty, bendy, flipping thing, which would I choose?
A script where I have to figure everything out for myself, make nodes connect to nodes, put in a controller, play around with co-efficients of co-sin variables
OR
Use a slider bar and graphics based twisty knob that was programmed professionally to do the same thing?
I think you know my answer. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 15, 2008, 5:17am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Yeah LE is powerfull but there is not enough around for the people to learn it
..... I´m in most of the tuesday meetings........ but thats not a
real crash course for learning how to use it efficiently... not dabling around.
And 80 bucks a course ...... well quintesence is we need more manuals
and video stream on that for free !!!!!!;)
I dont talk about easy operations..... and easy material making !
I have no problem with that !
Peter |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 15, 2008, 5:26am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Chuckle! I can't argue that James - I'm all in favour of easier ways to do things and to be fair I've not even the remotest interest in writing scripts myself and the whole concept of procedural animation hurts my head! :D
Having said that I find the LE is a brilliant way to both organise and navigate around my scene. Additionally, you mention "...OR Use a slider bar and graphics based twisty knob that was programmed professionally to do the same thing?" but neglect the fact that with the LE you can construct your own slider bars and twisty graphics thing to do exactly what you want (long live Steinies Locking Widget!). Of course the flip side to that is you have to take the time to learn how to do it which will of course affect your productivity.:D
I guess it's all different strokes for different folks but I would rather have those options and not need them than to need them and not have them!
I see your point Wizard, but (here comes the big butt...)
If I want to be productive in making a twisty, bendy, flipping thing, which would I choose?
A script where I have to figure everything out for myself, make nodes connect to nodes, put in a controller, play around with co-efficients of co-sin variables
OR
Use a slider bar and graphics based twisty knob that was programmed professionally to do the same thing?
I think you know my answer. |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 5:28am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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rayman, what do you want to learn?
Each Mon/Tue I post a mtg. announcement and usually try to post a msg: If there is something you want to talk about/ask/want to learn post it here!
Same thing at the meeting. Live training at these meetings is free.
so if you ask, then come to the meeting, we'll talk about it! That's what the meetings are for. I admit I've had trouble coming because I don't know what folks want to learn/talk about because no one really says anything. So please feel free to speak up! :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 15, 2008, 5:31am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Yeah LE is powerfull but there is not enough around for the people to learn it
..... I´m in most of the tuesday meetings........ but thats not a
real crash course for learning how to use it efficiently... not dabling around.
And 80 bucks a course ...... well quintesence is we need more manuals
and video stream on that for free !!!!!!;)
I dont talk about easy operations..... and easy material making !
I have no problem with that !
Peter
I can't argue with that either Peter - like most people I have a few pet peeves with tS and the manual is at the top of that list, right next to the lack of a visual graphics browser! |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 5:36am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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I see your point Wizard, but (here comes the big butt...)
If I want to be productive in making a twisty, bendy, flipping thing, which would I choose?
A script where I have to figure everything out for myself, make nodes connect to nodes, put in a controller, play around with co-efficients of co-sin variables
OR
Use a slider bar and graphics based twisty knob that was programmed professionally to do the same thing?
I think you know my answer.
One person wants a twisty, bendy, flipping thing; another wants a growing flowing thing with bumps that pop. 1,000 other people have exponentially more ideas. Having a small team of professional developers try to read every user's mind is not cost effective nor efficient.
That's what the LE is for. To allow the user group and teams to create their own specialized stuff.
Plus James, if there is something you or another user wants in the way of a custom object or interface, if you post a request here on the forums someone familiar with the LE may be able to help. No guarantee of course; but since the LE has been around for a couple years now, there are a few folks who are quite familiar with it and scripting capabilities who may be able to help. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 15, 2008, 5:37am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Frotee !
Thanks very much for offering your help....
What i am talking about is offline learning first !
Would be cool if we could see some light panels being made in
a live stream........ if we had further questions we could ask about them
in the meetings then.
Second it would be cool to have a repository on all of the bricks we have....
The garage is full of things but there is so much text in between....
Just file anda few words......:)
Peter |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 15, 2008, 5:37am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Chuckle! I can't argue that James - I'm all in favour of easier ways to do things and to be fair I've not even the remotest interest in writing scripts myself and the whole concept of procedural animation hurts my head! :D
Having said that I find the LE is a brilliant way to both organise and navigate around my scene. Additionally, you mention "...OR Use a slider bar and graphics based twisty knob that was programmed professionally to do the same thing?" but neglect the fact that with the LE you can construct your own slider bars and twisty graphics thing to do exactly what you want (long live Steinies Locking Widget!). Of course the flip side to that is you have to take the time to learn how to do it which will of course affect your productivity.:D
I guess it's all different strokes for different folks but I would rather have those options and not need them than to need them and not have them!
There's no doubt in my College Educated Engineering Studies trained mind I can do stuff in procedural programming, it's just at this point in my life, I don't want to build the engine
- I want that engine to already be in my car, so I can 'vroom' on down the road.
My days of sticking my head underneath the hood are long gone. It's time to get pleasure out of life and leave the 'hard stuff' to professionals. |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 5:41am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Frotee !
Thanks very much for offering your help....
What i am talking about is offline learning first !
Would be cool if we could see some light panels being made in
a live stream........ if we had further questions we could ask about them
in the meetings then.
Second it would be cool to have a repository on all of the bricks we have....
The garage is full of things but there is so much text in between....
Just file anda few words......:)
Peter
regarding all the bricks:
I know... they are all over the place. It will be good to consolidate them and provide a good description of them.
let me ask you this... if you can get a good understanding of the building blocks of these items, say, by seeing one and two liner examples in action, would it be easier to study these more complex examples and understand how they work? Basically I mean, breaking the problem down into manageable chunks. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 15, 2008, 5:55am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Its always a good idea to learn from other peoples work or
in this case plugs.What would be good to know is what can we use and what not. normaly this kind of work is copyright protected...
I cánt normaly use this brick from this guy and this from that and make something third.....
This has to be clear that we can use the files in all these repositories and also alter them and repost etc.
But there´s nothing thats better then recorded tutorials....
Building a light would be one I would like to see.
I would love to see making objects into lights (meshlights)
if that would be possible at all !
Peter |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 6:08am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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ok.
Seems to me that any script objects that get posted on these forums are free to use. There are no copyrights posted to them. If someone wants a copyright on them it's their responsibility to do so. If they don't, then there's no copyright.:)
hm... any object into a light. I thought that could already be done? At least on the Model side. I have not tried that in Workspace though. Anyone else done that yet?
Could you provide some specifics on what you want in this script rayman? A 'requirements list', so to speak? |
Post by 3dfrog // Mar 15, 2008, 6:17am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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I think agree with jamesmc that more common features should be easy to use. If you want more specialized things thats what the le is for. Just remember what you see in prodigy's animation is beta and not final like I think Tom said. Trust me, the new morphs are very cool and have advantage over other apps, I don't think I am allowed to say what the advantage is though, I don't want to post any caligari secrets. I use a couple of other apps too and I really like ts morphs. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 15, 2008, 6:26am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Could you provide some specifics on what you want in this script rayman? A 'requirements list', so to speak?`
I´d love to be able to use them with Vray the way one can do so within Lightworks.....
So it should be able to have a colour and texture.....
for making diplays or banklights etc.
Peter |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 6:41am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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ok so you want to use a geometric object as a light source within VRay?
I don't have VRay (can't afford it) but we can ask the folks that do have VRay if that is possible. |
Post by stan // Mar 15, 2008, 6:41am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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firstly I refer to them as nodes, bricks seem to be a shader thing..
you can use any code any of us create for your own work..rather than modify someones scripts and put them out again it might be better to ask the creator if they could make changes, unless you are making a whole different end use..we can't lock them so they are there for all to see, but to put out someone elses work slightly changed would be in bad taste, especially if you didn't even ask the creator..that's my opinion on scripts and copyright
most people put there script in the same places usually..all mine go in the garage, not sure of we need another repository because thats what the garage is..
I don't explain mine, barely create any instructions on use..what do you want for free..I just create them for myself or by request to make things that are not there and in doing so shared the end product..as it is hardly anyone even thanks the creators or reps them to know if its even worth while posting them...
the scriptors meetings are a good place to start.. it takes learning a new language to script..daunting at first, not so hard once you do it awhile..worth it in the end :)
Gord :cool: |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 6:48am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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scripts can also be found in the collaboration forum, the scriptorium, the interactive artwork forum as well. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 15, 2008, 7:02am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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you can use any code any of us create for your own work..rather than modify someones scripts and put them out again it might be better to ask the creator if they could make changes, unless you are making a whole different end use..we can't lock them so they are there for all to see, but to put out someone elses work slightly changed would be in bad taste, especially if you didn't even ask the creator..that's my opinion on scripts and copyright
You got me wrong with that....
If your making something out of a collection of nodes that other people made
.... because thats were its going to....
And about changing the scripts to special need and using these in context with other nodes to in the end making something totaly different that you post again for everyones use....
Peter |
Post by frootee // Mar 15, 2008, 7:03am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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nothing wrong with that rayman! :D |
Post by stan // Mar 15, 2008, 7:29am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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unless you are making a whole different end use
Rayman, isn't that what you mean..
we all use each others script ideas..and some nodes get reused. just not changing someones whole project slightly and reposting..to me thats a no no..
you want an object to give off light, thats a new idea that will use some previously created nodes..thats cool
something I do is leave any id from the original scriptor in the script nodes used or add it if I'm sure who created it ..might be a slight modification so add modified by me ..I don't always remember to add my own name to my own script nodes but am trying to get into the habit..
yes Frootee people post scripts in those places too..if they alway post in the same place it's not too hard to find them..maybe just a list of links to posts on a locked sticky thread would help |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 15, 2008, 7:46am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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we all use each others script ideas..and some nodes get reused. just not changing someones whole project slightly and reposting..to me thats a no no..
Well thats a nono and no discussion point....
Yes a sticky or a shortcut in the garage would be nice.....
so you wouldnt have to wad through the whole garage to find something..:)
Peter |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 15, 2008, 7:58am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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A long time ago I created a Repository thread. The idea was to create a thread to post links to your creations only. I was hoping that nobody would post comments etc.. User's and their Links. The problem is if it is a Sticky then you would not be able to Post to it.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=17670&postcount=1 |
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