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problems shaping dexters skeleton with shape skeleton tool.
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problems shaping dexters skeleton with shape skeleton tool. // Roundtable
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 7:36am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hello, hopefully someone knows the answer to this. Being able to take ANIM CLIPS and add them to the dexter zyes characters animation is so powerful and mind bogglingly easy. Allowing anim clips like mr bones sells to immediately go on the character is awesome. What I have been trying to do is take that skeleton out of dexter (that particular skeleton of dexter allows the anim clips to be dropped directly on it) and put that dexter skeleton in to human object meshes I import. Problem is when Iam SHAPING the skeleton and start working on moving the feet or some other parts for shaping all goes wacky and skeleton blows up out of scale. In other words if you try SHAPING dexter zyes with the "shape skeleton tool" some areas will go wacky. try it, you will see what I mean. This is important as it would be so easy to take that dexter skeleton and drop it in to meshes and shape it then skin it. Then all my many anim clips would instantly work. I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP. Thanks very much. :) |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 31, 2008, 8:48am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I dont know but would it be possible to get a scene file ?
There lots of things that can go wrong on a skelleton...
Peter |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 31, 2008, 9:03am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Try this link:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=34076&postcount=11
and this:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3460 |
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 9:22am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Thanks Guys for your quick response! This forum as always is awesome. I think I did not explain my post properly. I have NO PROBLEMS applying Mr Bones ANIM CLIPS via the link editor on to the DEXTER character. Been doing it awhile now (on to dexter). What Iam trying to do is put dexters "skeleton" in my imported character meshes. But while I have dexters skeleton in my mesh and I start using the SHAPE SKELETON tool to exactly postion skeleton at times skeleton will go crazy and deform. Easy to test. Just grab the dexter character and delete his mesh and start shaping the skeleton with the SHAPE SKELETON tool. At times (usually around feet or arms) you will see it will suddenly go crazy. Being that it is so easy to drop ANIM CLIPS on the dexter skeleton I thought it would be so cool to be able to reuse dexters skeleton on my other meshes.... since dexter has the correct bone setup for Mr Bones drop in anim clips. But during SHAPING something goes wacky ... hmmmmmm :) |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 31, 2008, 9:51am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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How about this one:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5193 |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 31, 2008, 12:00pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Keep in mind that BVH animations will reshape the skeleton to match the BVH animation, so you need to adjust the BVH skeleton to match your model in an external app before importing to TS. |
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 5:27pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hi Jack, Thanks for your comment. I still dont think I have explained myself properly as people dont seem to see what I mean. I have dozens of ANIM CLIPS for Truespace I purchased from Mr Bones. I just drop them on the the DEXTER character in the link editor and away I go. Also, as you know you can take the SKELETON out of dexter and still apply the anim clips to the skeleton and away ya go again... just animating the skeleton. HOWEVER, I want to put that dexter skeleton in human meshes I import. So I can use the anim clips easily on those mesh characters. The other characters that come with Truespace (the girl and the banana character for example) have skeletons I can remove and place in my meshes. Those dont go wacky when Iam manipulating the their bones in a mesh prior to skinning. HOWEVER, the Truespace dexter character (which has the skeleton already setup for animation and easily takes those animation clips) does not seem to allow placing properly in the mesh using the SHAPE SKELETON tool without it going wacky. Easy to see what I mean. Try SHAPING the dexter characters skeleton after removing it from the mesh and then use the SHAPE SKELETON tool. It will go wacky, especially on feet and hands. Now try removing and shaping the banana characters skeleton or the girls skeleton and that works ok using the SHAPE SKELETON tool. But you can not drop the anim clips on to the girl or the banana characters skeleton like you can dexters character. So, IT WOULD BE so extremely useful to use the dexters skeleton in our meshes we import. Then we could drop our bvh anim clips right on with no tweaking or any work at all. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 31, 2008, 6:13pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Can you post some screen shots or a video? I think that would help us with advising you, John. I'll bring your post to the attention of some of the animator guys on the beta team, maybe they'll better be able to help you. Could be that there's a bug involved or that a feature needs to be implemented. |
Post by mrbones // Mar 31, 2008, 6:55pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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There is no way to shape the skeleton of a BVH and have it affect all frames.
You can download the BVHACKER on my site to do this quicker.
THere is a way to use the TS5.1 to shape BVH skeletons and it will affect all frames.
I will post example in a bit. |
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 7:12pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hi Mr Bones, you dont quite understand. Iam taking the exsisting skeleton out of the DEXTER character. I then remove the ANIM CLIP with the animation that comes with that DEXTER skeleton in the link editor. So, I then have the basic DEXTER skeleton with no animation. I then take that skeleton and place it in a mesh of a man I imported. I then start to position the skeleton in my mesh with the "SHAPE SKELETON" tool. While doing that the dexters skeleton explodes and goes wacky. If you try it you will see what I mean. Just takes a second to try and SHAPE SKELETON it (usually around hands or feet when it goes wacky). There are NO ANIMATIONS, NO BVH's in the skeleton at that time. All I want to do is figure out why shaping that skeleton it goes wacky. I can remove TANK GIRLS skeleton and "SHAPE SKELETON" tool that skeleton in my meshes and it works fine. But her skeleton does not allow droping in your ANIM CLIPS like DEXTERS skeleton does. |
Post by mrbones // Mar 31, 2008, 7:16pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Ok,
Thanks for the good explaining,/ On first thought maybee save the first frame or record a frame after you hit the save pose tool after deleting clip.
I will see what I can find. Also, can you send your scene or object for analysis?
CHeers
Hi Mr Bones, you dont quite understand. Iam taking the exsisting skeleton out of the DEXTER character. I then remove the ANIM CLIP with the animation that comes with that DEXTER skeleton in the link editor. So, I then have the basic DEXTER skeleton with no animation. I then take that skeleton and place it in a mesh of a man I imported. I then start to position the skeleton in my mesh with the "SHAPE SKELETON" tool. While doing that the character explodes and goes wacky. There are NO ANIMATIONS, NO BVH's in the skeleton at that time. All I want to do is figure out why shaping that skeleton it goes wacky. I can remove TANK GIRLS skeleton and "SHAPE SKELETON" tool that skeleton and it works fine. But her skeleton does not allow droping in your ANIM CLIPS like DEXTERS skeleton does. |
Post by mrbones // Mar 31, 2008, 7:27pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Ok, i tried what you have done and your right.
It goes wacky,
I think you could just rerigg tank with a skeleton that is dexter compatible..
I could do that for you if you like..
This part as far as rerigging skeletons needs improvement.
Cheers
Hi Mr Bones, you dont quite understand. Iam taking the exsisting skeleton out of the DEXTER character. I then remove the ANIM CLIP with the animation that comes with that DEXTER skeleton in the link editor. So, I then have the basic DEXTER skeleton with no animation. I then take that skeleton and place it in a mesh of a man I imported. I then start to position the skeleton in my mesh with the "SHAPE SKELETON" tool. While doing that the dexters skeleton explodes and goes wacky. If you try it you will see what I mean. Just takes a second to try and SHAPE SKELETON it (usually around hands or feet when it goes wacky). There are NO ANIMATIONS, NO BVH's in the skeleton at that time. All I want to do is figure out why shaping that skeleton it goes wacky. I can remove TANK GIRLS skeleton and "SHAPE SKELETON" tool that skeleton in my meshes and it works fine. But her skeleton does not allow droping in your ANIM CLIPS like DEXTERS skeleton does. |
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 7:59pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Thanks for checking that out Mr Bones. I did just attach a pic too. My point was I did not want this for TANK GIRL specifically but to be able to have a skeleton rig (that will take your drag and drop anim clips ... like we can do on dexter) that I can put it in to any human figure mesh I want. Iam sure there are many who would love having this easy feature. I have a blast putting many of your anim clips instantly on to dexter and blending them so many different ways. It is soooo easy and soooo cool. Would take me forever to do anything similar in my XSI program. So, if we just could use that dexter skeleton in our other meshes, not just dexter. If only DEXTERS SKELETON would not deform :( |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 31, 2008, 8:17pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Try this Skeleton and see if it works for you. What I did was first disconnect the AnimTrack attribute from the AnimClip and delete the AnimClip. I noticed that the AnimTrack attribute was still present in the Exp aspect of the Skeleton. So I enter into Panel Editing and deleted that Attribute. I also reset the Default pose and Matrix. This is the Skeleton from the Dexter Character. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 31, 2008, 8:31pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I've run into this behaviour myself. I assumed it was impossible to move joints around after joint constraints and skinning had occurred. You can reuse a skeleton from another character you just can't change the relative joint placements.
I didn't try trueBlues idea though.
My workaround was to load a BVH sjeleton and fit the characters geometry to the skeleton rather than fitting the skeleton to the character. Of course my characters are none-realistic cartoony guys rather than anatomically accurate human meshes.
HTH |
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 8:45pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Mr Bones!! Great news ... well almost. I tried your skeleton that you uploaded below. SO FAR NO DISTORTION! and I dragged a bunch of your anim clips I purchased from you in to the link editor on to the skeleton. Running, jumping, backflips, belly laughs .... you name it. All so easy. Now I can put that skeleton in to all my human meshes. This is really really huge. So only problem is I can not move that skeleton or rotate it BUT CAN SHAPE SKELETON IT. I imported it in and it just wont move or rotate (but at least I tested the SHAPE SKELETON tool on it and no going crazy! And I tested the drag and drop ANIM CLIPS on to it in the link editor and that worked perfect. Now, if only can figure out why I cant move or rotate the skeleton. Iam sure its a minor thing. But I sure am excited BECAUSE I have spent so many hours in XSI and MAYA with BVH animation FRUSTRATIONS and never dreamed this all could be so easy. |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 31, 2008, 9:09pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Looks like I saved previous Skeleton as RsObj. I saved this one as a RsSkel and now you can Rotate and Move it. Do note that I have to Drag and Drop this into the Link Editor as Double Clicking from the Library is not working for this item. But if you apply a clip to it, you then can save it as a Rosetta BVH format "bvh". Double clicking to load this format works from the library.
This Skeleton is from the Mike Moves library: |
Post by jhowell // Mar 31, 2008, 11:14pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Thanks Mr Bones! All worked great. I just did a super quick 10 minute test and put it on a youtube video. This really will be a huge timesaver for many people. Thanks again. Here is youtube link ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJOBk8SnaMQ
Keep in mind all was done just in a few minutes with no weight painting, texturing etc. |
Post by jhowell // Apr 1, 2008, 7:54am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Looks like I saved previous Skeleton as RsObj. I saved this one as a RsSkel and now you can Rotate and Move it. Do note that I have to Drag and Drop this into the Link Editor as Double Clicking from the Library is not working for this item. But if you apply a clip to it, you then can save it as a Rosetta BVH format "bvh". Double clicking to load this format works from the library.
Hi Mr Bones, I tried this new skeleton you uploaded to see if it came be moved. I notice I can not move or rotate this one either. Actually can not SHAPE SKELETON IT EITER. The previous skeleton rsobj file you uploaded could be SHAPED but not this one. |
Post by trueBlue // Apr 1, 2008, 8:38am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Hello jhowell,
Sorry about that. I uploaded it to check it out and sure enough it did not move nor rotate. Strange as it was working for me last night. I updated the previous post with a Skeleton that is from the Mike Moves library. I tested it over and over again and the Shape tool works plus I can move and rotate it.
HTH
BTW... I am trueBlue and not Mr. Bones |
Post by jhowell // Apr 1, 2008, 9:27am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Well, this is my final update to me starting this thread. Thanks trueblue for all your help and for uploading the last updated file. But now I see we did not need it. What you just mentioned about the skeletons that are in our LIBRARY BROWSER/BVH-MIKES MOVES folder made me think about trying one of those skeletons. Worked perfectly. So the whole story is that you can go to your LIBRARY BROWSER/BVH-MIKES MOVES folder. Grab a MIKES MOVE skeleton. Put it in to any human or figure MESH that you import (I import that on the modeler side, then go back to the workspace). You can shape the skeleton in that mesh using the "SHAPE SKELETON" tool. You can then attach SKIN TO SKELETON. Then you can weight paint etc. BUT WHAT IS REALLY COOL is those skeletons in the MIKES MOVE folder are all ready to drag and drop ANIM CLIPS on to. And that is what I wanted to do all along. Have a skeleton I can put in my meshes that accepts the drag and drop anim clips. I just did it all just now in less than 10 minutes... with lots of bvh anim clip animation and real time rendering included. Start to finish. Thanks again for all your help. All works perfect! :banana::banana: |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 1, 2008, 9:00pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Yet another example of the way tS makes things far easier than we anticipate. |
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