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I need a beating
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
I need a beating // Roundtable
Post by Mitch // Apr 1, 2008, 3:13pm
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Mitch
Total Posts: 70
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I have drunk too much and I have come here for a beating.
From day one I have been a trueSpace user (Version 1) but to this very day I hate this program (and love it) with a passion.
This program has enormous potential. It has great capabilities beyond our wildest dreams but heaven help you if you want to use them.
If I leave this program for one month I have to start all over to use it.
The interface is the worst of all my programs ( in the hundreds, all paid for).
The manual is hopeless. Even the updated chapter speaks of Workspace and then moves to Player.
"Start in Default Layout with Player View opened. From the Base library, drag and drop the “Plane” object into the 3D View. When it appears in Link Editor view, click on its orange triangle to enter it. You should see 3 objects: Propeller, PlaneBody, and Transform"
No link editor appears, where is it?
If you hate Microsoft you should be happy they bought this company because before they are done they will all be crazy.
The training videos are totally outdated. The manuals are outdated.
The interface is insane.
The problem for me is I have twenty plus programs I must be able to use.
I can not afford to be an expert on one or two, like many of you.
I hear the experts here say they do not want to change programs now because they have invested so much in trueSpace.
That’s the problem! It is bad enough trying to work with this program but the manuals and training materials are a disaster. Why are they not updated?
I am now ready for my beating. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 1, 2008, 3:31pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Mitch, well that spot in the manual definitely needs to be updated/clarified. :p
You can get to the link editor by changing the 3D or 4D window to 2D. Or by opening a link editor window from the system toolbar at the bottom and then docking it.
Usually I just drag the animation view (4D) taller, then switch it to 2D since I don't use the animation tools much.
One huge improvement with the manual is that there are now quite a view demonstration videos included in the manual. (Well technically it's a separate download, but hey. :p)'
The new workspace side is pretty simple to use. Create your primitive. Right click on it to enter edit mode. Use the selection tools and start editing away.
Keep in mind that the 7.x series is an application in transition, so some things on the new side (Workspace) are a bit unfinished and need some polishing in the UI and workflow department, but they are getting there. If you have ideas that you think would make the workflow easier or that you'd like to see implemented, I'm sure the Caligari team would appreciate the feedback.
Model-side is likely going bye-bye in 8.0 and we will be able to return to a single unified interface. So get those essential feature requests in so the Caligari guys can start working on them. ;)
Also if you're stuck on a particular feature or task feel free to post your problem here and we'll try our best to help you out.
The problem with the training courses is that it takes time to make them and with the application changing as much as it has, by the time the video is produced, a new version is out. :( |
Post by Burnart // Apr 1, 2008, 5:11pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Ah, manuals .... lack there of or at least limited and error prone.
Unfortunately over recent years the art of the software manual seems to have gone by the wayside. The pressure to reduce software production costs means getting changes or additions into a manual is a very low priority. It seems almost like it is no longer considered a part of software updates - 10 or 15 years ago updated manuals or detailed supplements ALWAYS came with the software update. The move to download only software and on-line manuals is frankly a pain in the butt. For a start the thinking behind it assumes that all customers have genuinely fast broadband and are virtually always logged in. Of course on-line manuals are only good if they are constantly updated and error fixed.
Having said all that I understand the problem to some extent - after all, the 3d software of today is a far more complex beast. Still, communicating your software to your users and potential users has got to be a high priority in theory. I always thought better and more detailed worked through examples are needed - more like the courses but supplied with the software, not paid for as added extras.
I could go on and on - manuals are one of my pet grips - but I won't. |
Post by Mitch // Apr 1, 2008, 5:21pm
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Mitch
Total Posts: 70
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Thanks Jack for your response and help.
The reason for my absence is trueSpace froze up for some reason. Has not happened before.
I also had a hard time signing into the forums. I thought I may have been bumped because of my post.
One of the biggest reasons for problems is the upgrade path from 7.0 to 7.51.
You can lose files etc. during the process. It took me awhile to find the tutorial objects.
I got into the link editor window thanks to your tip and will go from there. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 1, 2008, 6:00pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Happy to be of help, and glad you were able to find the link editor. :) It's basically the scene manager for 7.51.
One of the new features that'll help prevent you from losing files during an upgrade is to create user library places in the library browser, you can link the user library place to a folder on your harddrive that is outside the TS folder.
If you're working in Workspace side TS freezing up could be related to your video driver. Workspace side is much more stable than model side. The 163.75 nVidia drivers are the most stable for Vista x64 and TS that I've found. Also if you save your crash dump file and send it to Paul or post it here, the devs can then find the crash point and fix the problem.
Basically the biggest change from 7.0 -> 7.5 is that in 7.51 Workspace is a (almost) complete work environment. There are very few things that you need to go to model side for and (if you have VRay) you can take a project from start to finish entirely on workspace side in that version. I found the transition a bit hard at first, but it works best if you switch over to workspace side completely and force yourself to come up with different solutions instead of relying on old model-side ways of doing things. |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 1, 2008, 6:26pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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First of all I have a smilie for you !
second .... I have problems with finding out things in the
new Truespace versions myself ! I studied the manual some days ago
on animation and found out that some parts are good some of the videos are good but some things are not even mentioned !
I had to do a stop trick with caracters coming out of the belly of an animated horse (troian horse) and couldnt get those caracters away at the beginning of
the animation.They were there and BIG right in the middle of the space
although the keyframes of them started much later !
Nothing in the manuals about that !:o
I do not think so that videos are that difficult to produce !
You open Camstasia press F9 on the keyboard do your masterful work
with Truespace while you explain what you are doing and at the end
you press F10. and save it. All you got to do is compress what youve got
and load it into the forum ! I´ve done that to explain Moi3d basics
to people in here and think this would greatly help.
I´m just not a Truespace expert ... so you will hear me scratching my head
most of the time !;)
Peter |
Post by TigreStripe // Apr 1, 2008, 8:16pm
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TigreStripe
Total Posts: 75
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I think one of the problems with manuals these days is the fact that not everyone can write in a technical sense and make it clear to new users. Caligari certainly wouldn't be the only company to have a difficult manual.
The videos are a different story. It's usually good to show how it's done step by step but more importantly, why your doing it. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 1, 2008, 8:27pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I think TigreStripe is closer to the point. Experts generaly can't write good manuals. They already know the material and so it's difficult to guess which parts are hard to figure out. The best person to write a manual is someone who just figured it out and still remembers which parts were stumbling blocks.
That's why its really helpful to know at what point the user is getting stuck. Because that helps identify parts of the manual that need to be improved.
The problem I find with most manuals is that they spend a lot of time on things no one is going to use or do, and usually no time at all on the basic everyday tasks needed to use the software....or they'll go over menu options without telling you why or how you'd use that tool to accomplish anything useful. :rolleyes: |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 1, 2008, 8:42pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi Mitch - I think we've all felt your pain at some stage!
My first extended encounters with software involved me learning a customer database and billing application that cost the company I worked for (an electricity utility company) obscene amounts of money. The help system was quite sophisticated and more often than not wildly inaccurate - the version of the software we had for training on was quite different to the live version we were expected to work with and so on.
From this beginning I have always assumed that software manuals and help systems will faultlessly provide me with information, none of which will be relevant to my current need! Specific questions and searches will always lead to descriptions of processes that I don't currently need and will totally fail to mention the processes I do wish to understand.
When the company expanded beyond the capacity of it's existing Subscriber Management and Billing software they bought a state of the art, top of the line business solution from a German company that we were told would be much easier to use and have far superior documentation - in reality it was the same old rubbish in a different coloured bucket!
Since then I have found really good documentation to be quite rare for any software package - and the more complex the software the more confusing, misleading, irrelevant and generally difficult to use the manuals and help files are.
For me, coming from that type of background I found the trueSpace manuals to be about average overall.
I normally sign off my posts with HTH - Hope This Helps - but in this case I'm fairly sure it won't help;):D!!! |
Post by splinters // Apr 1, 2008, 11:00pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Hi Mitch.
Firstly I would like to know why you must know and use 20 programs.
Secondy, I would like to hear your thoughts when you are sober...we have all had a drunken rant here...;)
As for UI and workflow, I am biased and find it easy to navigate and use but I can see how the manual would be intimidating/outdated. |
Post by Mitch // Apr 2, 2008, 6:35am
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Mitch
Total Posts: 70
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Thanks everyone for your tolerance and help. After a good night’s sleep and my morning coffee I no longer need a beating.
Jack your ideas are very helpful. I never realized how much could be done in Workspace. I have always felt I needed all those icons to do anything. After spending some time only in Workspace I realize how good it is.
Splinters here are some of the jobs I work on and the software I use to do them:
1: Write and create books
Adobe InDesign CS3
2: Create web sites
Dreamweaver CS3
Web Easy Pro 7
WebPlus 10
NetObjects 10
3: Illustrate books and web sites
Adobe Photoshop CS3 and Illustrator CS3
4: Animations to illustrate ideas and concepts
Flash Pro CS3
TrueSpace 7.51
Vue 6 Infinity
Poser 7
5: Videos to educate
Premier Pro CS3
Visual Communicator CS3
6: Organise and plan
Achieve Planner
ConceptDraw Project
TrueSpace is the program for me and I will be putting more effort into learning
it.
Thanks. |
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