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March 08 gallery
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
March 08 gallery // Roundtable
Post by Burnart // Apr 3, 2008, 4:22pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Latest gallery is up - nice one Marcel !:banana::banana:
Nice anim from 3dfrog also.
(Have the galleries already been commented on and I missed it? :) ) |
Post by kena // Apr 3, 2008, 4:56pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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very well done! Wish I had been able to see the WIP for that winner. |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 3, 2008, 5:34pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Anyone ever done a percent count of how many projects from the WIP section actually win first place in the Caligari contest versus those which are never seen until they are presented?
From just first glance, there seem to be a lot of unknown WIPS out there done behind the secrecy of computer screens.
Just wondering...
:) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 3, 2008, 6:01pm
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Jack Edwards
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Wow! Some stunning entries this month.
I agree with James, it'd be cool to have more of these done as WIPs so that we could enjoy watching their progress and learn from the respective artists. |
Post by Changa // Apr 3, 2008, 9:45pm
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Changa
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Congratulatios to the winners! Marcel, is it an AD for MS Virtual Earth year 3000?:D |
Post by splinters // Apr 3, 2008, 11:10pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I still do not get how you get an honorable mention for a close up of a picture that wins the runner up prize. Even if there were too few entries to make a 'symmetrical' gallery it just looks bad.
I find the galleries to be a real mixed bag recently and feel myself agreeing more and more with Trebs post from quite a few months ago.
As cynical as it seems you do have to have suspicions about such high quality images appearing seemingly from nowhere. I would like to see the wireframes, not just for reassurance but for inspiration.
I have stopped submitting pictures to the gallery, before anyone suggests the old 'why don't you do better then' line.
Just not impressed overall, no one in particular but I feel this is indicative of attitudes to tS in general lately. I used to devour each image with my eyes in the past and was throughly impressed. There are some good images there this month and I love the winner but as a gallery representing a month of work...well, it does not cut it for me.
I don't want to seem negative but this is a gallery that showcases the best work done with a flagship program. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 4, 2008, 1:48am
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Yea I see what you mean. There were 4 repeats in this months Gallery, runner up, Wizards still from last months anim., car in 3 spots and room in 3 spots. Makes it look like not enough entries to fill.
The winner named Marcel, does he use these forums? If so did you use a program to create the city? I remember seeing one advertised in CGSociety and want to know how you used it with trueSpace. Very awesome work by the way.
Monte DOES come here and as I said before you do excellent work.
I don't see anything wrong this month with "Quality" (except for that rag):rolleyes: but the variety was missing this month. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 4, 2008, 2:18am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I still do not get how you get an honorable mention for a close up of a picture that wins the runner up prize. Even if there were too few entries to make a 'symmetrical' gallery it just looks bad.
Huh? I don't get it Splinters - what 'looks bad' about it? Seems to me that each image should be judged on it's merits not on it's relationship to another picture. Saying one picture is a close up of the other refers to the relationship (actually the assumed relationship as the close up could be the 'main' image and the other a wide angle view) between the two images. Each image has it's own compositional values and each standing alone would be a remarkable image IMO.
Nor is this a one off situation - several months back I had two images accepted for the gallery - one was the 'main' image (for want of a better description) and the other was a monochrome composite of the fog and volumetrics renders used when layering up the 'main' image. This second image used the same POV of the same modeled architecture as the first image - yet both images were individual artistic statements.
At least, that's how I see it.
find the galleries to be a real mixed bag recently and feel myself agreeing more and more with Trebs post from quite a few months ago.
As cynical as it seems you do have to have suspicions about such high quality images appearing seemingly from nowhere. I would like to see the wireframes, not just for reassurance but for inspiration.
I have stopped submitting pictures to the gallery, before anyone suggests the old 'why don't you do better then' line.
Just not impressed overall, no one in particular but I feel this is indicative of attitudes to tS in general lately. I used to devour each image with my eyes in the past and was throughly impressed. There are some good images there this month and I love the winner but as a gallery representing a month of work...well, it does not cut it for me.
I don't want to seem negative but this is a gallery that showcases the best work done with a flagship program. Not wanting to pick nits but really isn't it a gallery that showcases the best work submitted that month which uses the flagship program for a significant part of the production process? These are important distinctions IMO.
Moving on to related subjects: regarding my own image - I submitted it as a gesture of support for Roman more than anything else, with no desire or expectation of it even being accepted. It's a realtime render based on a scene from my animation submission in February - it's not my best work nor did I put a lot of new work into it. This is because I'm focused on another animation project which I intend to enter into the animation gallery for consideration.
The way I see it submitting entries for Roman to chose from or not as he sees fit (after all it is his gallery) is a way for me to support both Roman and the Caligari community in general. I'm sure that with all the negativity expressed around here recently he could do with some support. This is the guy that makes what we do possible. I do not go into the house of anyone and critique the paintings they have chosen for their walls and I'm beginning to find this monthly postmortem a little depressing even if the negative and/or suspicious comments are valid.
And to close on an upbeat- well done to all who entered.:D |
Post by Nez // Apr 4, 2008, 2:25am
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Hmm, does seem a shame that there's so few scenes represented. I can understand the close-up of Monte's scene getting an honourable mention as well the second place - he did point out in his thread that he normally renders out to very hi-res and that detail would be lost in the overall scene. the close-up is, in it's own right, pretty impressive. If he'd been given winner and runner upl places, that would maybe have been a bit unreasonable.
I do like the city shot and would also like to see a wireframe - to me, it lookslike an aerial photo has been used for the bulk of it, with some of the buildings added in 3d (quite skillfully). I'd be quite surprised if the whole thing was modelled, at least in tS anyway, but would be interested to see.
Edit - W!zard snuck in whilst I was writing...
Edit 2 - serves me right slightly, meant to get my plane in too but forgot from business... maybe next month... |
Post by splinters // Apr 4, 2008, 2:53am
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Sorry Wizard, I have to disagree. This is a public gallery so I am entitled to walk in and make judgements about the pictures. It is not personal! That you have an image in there seems to imply as much.
I have nothing but support for Roman and Caligari and this is not a depressing postmortem. Just how much stuff do you think I have supplied to Caligari over the years? I have an opinion and I am free to express it. That you do not agree is fine but please do not turn it into anything else. I could imagine that, to a first time visitor, this would give the impression that there simply is not much quality stuff going on around here. How is defending that going to change that visitor's perception?
It is only that; my personal opinion.
From a PR point of view, I would have thought it would have been better to put the closeup and the full image as runner up. I am not knocking the quality of that image, but if you look at this from a new visitor's point of view it seems like the whole image gets runner up while part of it only achieves an honorable mention. That confuses me but, please don't explain your take on it, it is my opinion and it will not change. None of my comments are personal; I name no-one piece as being substandard. I simply refer to the whole gallery.
I thought long and hard about writing my thoughts, especially after the backlash Trebs got for saying the same, but it had to be said...for my own reasons. |
Post by frootee // Apr 4, 2008, 4:27am
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Well, regarding the stills and animations chosen, please keep in mind thateach submitter (obviously) can submit multiple images; sometimes, these are the same scene rendered from multiple points of view. Roman chooses from all the images and animations each month, so, it's really not up to the creators which ones get chosen; likewise, it is not up to the creators which ones Do Not get chosen.
Congratulations to everyone whose stills and animations were selected! And I would especially like to congratulate 3DFrog. He's been hammering away at that animation for a long time now! Way to Go Man! Looks great!
It would be really cool to see 3DFrog do a video tutorial on character rigging <HINT HINT Caligari! i.e. I'd buy it!>
Later,
Froo |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 4, 2008, 4:29am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Didn't 3DFrog state that he did that in 7.6?
Or were my trifocals out of alignment once again? |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 4, 2008, 4:51am
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No need to apologise Paul - of course you are entitled to an opinion. In fact I should apologise for being unclear.
I don't have an issue with folk making judgements about the pictures although I do get uncomfortable when I see people expressing suspicions about the validity of the choices Roman makes in what I see as his gallery. Seems to me that if someone painted a photo of Britney Spears on a trueSpace primitive and Roman decided he wants it in his gallery that's up to him. Questioning the artistic integrity behind his choices is the same as someone questioning any artistic choice that any of us make I think.
I'm not sure what you think we are disagreeing about - I simply did not understand your reasons for the remarks you made - so often we say what we think without saying why we think it. You've told me why you think it looks bad which answers my question. I wasn't seeking agreement or disagreement I just wanted to understand a remark which seemed at face value to be out of character.
In my mind a picture , any picture, is an artistic statement in itself - it's relationship to any other picture is a whole other thing and I see no incongruity. You do see an incongruity which you have no explained further. But this is not about agreeing or disagreeing, or right or wrong. We can both have differing viewpoints of equal validity it seems to me.
For the record this has nothing to do with my own picture - as I said it was submitted as much as a gesture of support than anything else. There is no shortage of folk who like my work nor a shortage of those who don't - if people like my work that's fine, if they don't that's their choice and worthy of respecting as such. No skin off my nose!:D
The 'depressing postmortem' comment was not directed at you and I could have made that clearer. It may well be a subjective assessment on my part but it seems every month for some time there is a thread of suspicion about the artistic validity of some of the entries in the roundtable discussion - particularly as to the amount of actual trueSpace used in the artwork. What I find depressing about that is that such suspicion is justified (particularly given the dubious entries last year).
Finally please do not ask my to not 'explain my take on it'. If you are entitled to express your opinion then so am I. Please also do not assume that in sharing my opinion I seek to change your opinion - it's yours and you are entitled to it. I have no interest in changing it I just wanted to understand it better.
Sorry Wizard, I have to disagree. This is a public gallery so I am entitled to walk in and make judgements about the pictures. It is not personal! That you have an image in there seems to imply as much.
I have nothing but support for Roman and Caligari and this is not a depressing postmortem. Just how much stuff do you think I have supplied to Caligari over the years? I have an opinion and I am free to express it. That you do not agree is fine but please do not turn it into anything else. I could imagine that, to a first time visitor, this would give the impression that there simply is not much quality stuff going on around here. How is defending that going to change that visitor's perception?
It is only that; my personal opinion.
From a PR point of view, I would have thought it would have been better to put the closeup and the full image as runner up. I am not knocking the quality of that image, but if you look at this from a new visitor's point of view it seems like the whole image gets runner up while part of it only achieves an honorable mention. That confuses me but, please don't explain your take on it, it is my opinion and it will not change. None of my comments are personal; I name no-one piece as being substandard. I simply refer to the whole gallery.
I thought long and hard about writing my thoughts, especially after the backlash Trebs got for saying the same, but it had to be said...for my own reasons. |
Post by kena // Apr 4, 2008, 5:39am
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kena
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Personally, I stopped trying to figure out why Roman picks one picture over another. It is his subjective opinion, not mine that he uses. But I was actually a bit surprised that a picture that is so obviously a close-up of another one got placed into a different category. I would have said “runner up – and close-up”. But that would be me. Not Roman.
I was the first to express a desire to see this month’s winner as a WIP, and it was only from a desire to learn how to improve my own work. Not from suspicion that there was something wrong with it. What we have to remember is that there are many people who never post in the forums who submit to the monthly contest. And I have see some forum regulars win without making a WIP.
As for negativity….
I think that I have seen more negative comments since some point in time last year, but I honestly do not share them. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 4, 2008, 6:12am
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Total Posts: 3667
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"Richard, I can't speak for Terry C. but I would NOT post information on anything of yours until you show you can complete something, all you have produced is error codes in languages you have half learned.
There is so much crap on the list lately it's no mystery why users of 3DSMAX and Lightwave laugh at us, it's not because we use a toy but those that we allow to play with it! "
This was from an OLD forum of TS back in 1998. No need to start saying this forum has "become" negative.
We are a mix of cultures and people. Good and Bad things will and have happened here. We are very lucky now with the group that comes here now. Lets keep it that way.
We have opinionated people here now which I love. People that want tS to get fixed or improve, that is great. Right now we are the voice of the users out there so although it sounds like complaining, I think we are really just trying to get this thing right. HOWEVER the back and forth justifications of our words to one another is unnecessary, for you only need to explain to Caligari.
Lets keep it that way. The rest is called bickering.
No wonder there are so little entries each month, all we do is yak!:) |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 4, 2008, 6:30am
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jamesmc
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"Richard, I can't speak for Terry C. but I would NOT post information on anything of yours until you show you can complete something, all you have produced is error codes in languages you have half learned.
There is so much crap on the list lately it's no mystery why users of 3DSMAX and Lightwave laugh at us, it's not because we use a toy but those that we allow to play with it! "
This was from an OLD forum of TS back in 1998. No need to start saying this forum has "become" negative.
We are a mix of cultures and people. Good and Bad things will and have happened here. We are very lucky now with the group that comes here now. Lets keep it that way.
We have opinionated people here now which I love. People that want tS to get fixed or improve, that is great. Right now we are the voice of the users out there so although it sounds like complaining, I think we are really just trying to get this thing right. HOWEVER the back and forth justifications of our words to one another is unnecessary, for you only need to explain to Caligari.
Lets keep it that way. The rest is called bickering.
No wonder there are so little entries each month, all we do is yak!:)
Oh yeah!
Bicker, bicker, whine , whine, complain (expletive), false accusation, rationalized air-headed flatulent comment, 'yo mamma', egg sucking canine troglodyte, arm flailing - curmudgeon oriented tirade and so and so.
Take that!
:D |
Post by jayr // Apr 7, 2008, 12:42am
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Total Posts: 1074
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I actually think the quality of this months gallery was really high, apart from the close up, can't get my head around that like most of the people here, i can only think that it was submitted so we could see a more detailed image of the figure.
But come on, the winner was great, the veyron was great, Murat Ocal's interiors were really well done, the quality of these images was really, really good. It's a pity that the close up is stealing so much attention. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 7, 2008, 1:10am
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Steinie
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Well I talked to Marcel who is the Winner of this Month's Gallery. He told me that the ground and sky are photos. He modeled all the buildings and roads. I told him that we all enjoyed his work.
He also gave me a link to his web site for those interested in more of his work. He is very talented and his site is worth a look.
www.crea-vision.fr |
Post by Burnart // Apr 7, 2008, 1:29pm
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I think the biggest problem with the galleries is that there aren't enough submissions. I'm sure Roman would happily put up with a massive increase in the volume of submissions. Perhaps we forum regulars should be a little more involved in this aspect. I'm sure that we all keep things to ourselves because a) they aren't complete, b) they are just experiments, c) we aren't totally happy, d) for a client etc etc. Some of this stuff could be submitted maybe.
Personally I'm more interested in animation and hopefully I'll finish my latest epic (not!) before the end of the month so I can submit it. I really don't see any reason why I then couldn't use elements from my animation to compose a still to submit to that gallery also. Even a series of them if I wanted to. Perhaps I will - but the animation is my priority at the moment.
I really didn't get the quibble in this thread about closeups .... once we have submitted an environment or model we should never re-use them? We shouldn't revisit existing works and try to re-interpret them? |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 7, 2008, 3:26pm
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W!ZARD
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I think the biggest problem with the galleries is that there aren't enough submissions. I'm sure Roman would happily put up with a massive increase in the volume of submissions. Perhaps we forum regulars should be a little more involved in this aspect. I'm sure that we all keep things to ourselves because a) they aren't complete, b) they are just experiments, c) we aren't totally happy, d) for a client etc etc. Some of this stuff could be submitted maybe.
Personally I'm more interested in animation and hopefully I'll finish my latest epic (not!) before the end of the month so I can submit it. I really don't see any reason why I then couldn't use elements from my animation to compose a still to submit to that gallery also. Even a series of them if I wanted to. Perhaps I will - but the animation is my priority at the moment.
I really didn't get the quibble in this thread about closeups .... once we have submitted an environment or model we should never re-use them? We shouldn't revisit existing works and try to re-interpret them?
Yeah that was my thinking too Burnart. Not enough entries and I like to enter something everytime if possible as much to support the community as anything else. (The fact that I've won enough credit to cover the costs of any potential charges for 7.6 is a definite bonus too!).
In fact I find it hard to figure out why more people don't submit stuff. I use the monthly gallery as a deadline to help keep me motivated, it gives me a target to aim for and helps me focus my efforts.
The close-up thing just seems weird to me - I've got half a dozen different pictures in the gallery featuring various view points of my big ship model. Same model, different viewpoint. Shrug - each to their own of course.:) |
Post by jayr // Apr 8, 2008, 10:09am
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In fact I find it hard to figure out why more people don't submit stuff. I use the monthly gallery as a deadline to help keep me motivated, it gives me a target to aim for and helps me focus my efforts.
Thats a good point Wizard,a lot of my projects slip as i loose concentration on them, maybe aiming for a gallery sub might keep me motivated |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 8, 2008, 5:51pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well I talked to Marcel who is the Winner of this Month's Gallery. He told me that the ground and sky are photos. He modeled all the buildings and roads. I told him that we all enjoyed his work.
He also gave me a link to his web site for those interested in more of his work. He is very talented and his site is worth a look.
www.crea-vision.fr
Thanks for the heads up on this link Steinie - I thought Marcel's site was well worth a visit. He's got some interesting work there. |
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