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Big decision time
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Big decision time // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Apr 7, 2008, 10:16pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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At last, a big decision that does not involve trueSpace...well, kind of..:rolleyes:
Tomorrow I am going for an interview in a much bigger school than I teach in at the moment. It is a great career opportunity and (call me arrogant) I always go to an interview with the expectation of getting the job so I mull over what that would mean.
What it would mean for me is longer working terms, more responsibility, more student work to supervise and more paperwork. Might not sound great but I am a teacher (15 years) and this is my career.
But I had a dream to become an illustrator, to reduce my teaching and make a living from my books or other 3D work.
I need to make a living for my family and so I need to consider my teaching career seriously (I am 38 and not getting younger!).
I guess what I am saying is that, in accepting this job I would be very limited in my available time to contribute here, write books, undertake illustration contracts etc. Giving up a dream for a steady salary really.
I realise no one can make this decision for me. My current job is great and allows me time to pursue these goals but, I hate to say it, they are not really coming off and I have been plugging away at these books for nearly 7 years now.
I will give it some serious thought tonight, and I will miss some great students such as Hemulin, but he is leaving this year anyway and, all in all, it seems a good time to leave. I just wonder if I am right giving up a dream.
Anyway, thought I would share my thoughts with those who would understand best...my wife just sees $$ for a that new kitchen...;) |
Post by Tiles // Apr 7, 2008, 10:48pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I once talked to an freelancer. 12+ hours of work per day. When there is a deadline he cancels sleep completely. Competition is a tough one nowadays too. Just the very fittest and best with the most professional equipment survives.
Your current job is definitely something that pays you every month. Artistic work may not. Maybe someting to consider too ;)
I would say, make an extra money from your hobby. When this extra money goes over what you earn with your job, and when it does that the second year too, well, then it's time to think twice about it. But not before that. The artistic business is too hard for that.
My two cents :) |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 7, 2008, 10:51pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Well, having money and being happy are two completely separate states...You, being the competent person you seem to be, and with a family...have probably already made the choice(you are already going to the interview)...you just need to come to terms with that choice, so it sounds. You seem to be a great guy, and whatever you choose my thoughts are with you and yours. Best of luck. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 7, 2008, 11:55pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree with Justin and Tiles. Go for the career for now, when the art stuff can carry it's own weight, then it's time to switch. It's always good to have options.
Besides, you're waiting for better hair tools in TS anyway, that may take a while, and this way you'll have more money to buy the upgrade when the time comes. ;) :p |
Post by rjeff // Apr 7, 2008, 11:56pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Well Splinters the answer seem pretty cut and dry. You family is your biggest priority. If getting the new job would mean more $$ whith sablity then that is the light at the end of the tunnell. I did the same thing this year mysefl. I took a better paying job with security. Where I was self employed. I gave up that freedom of being my own boss to get the security, as we have another baby on the way. In todays world job secruity is way more important than trying to eek out a life with work that may or may not be there each month. |
Post by Ambrose // Apr 8, 2008, 12:26am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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You know what to do Splinters!
The 3D will have it's time, it's a time for everything.
Now go to that interview and don't oversleep, I know your thinking of that ;)
Just think how much you would regrett otherwise, also you might not get the job in wich case you will be at least richier experience wise making up your mind, and you can allways say no thanks later on.
Go Go:D
ouch an oldie, at least a year more than me ;)
Good luck
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by brotherx // Apr 8, 2008, 12:29am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I can say from experience that even when working crazy hours you can find time to do stuff. I am currently doing a Maths course via the OU, working 40 hours a week, go walking/hill climbing/body boarding at the weekend, play the xbox/DS whenever and still try and squeeze a little modelling in as well as helping run an online business.
The Modelling for me has taken a back seat but I am still playing with it when I have time...
I guess what I'm saying is while you'll have less time for art you'll probably still have some time for it. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 8, 2008, 1:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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When I'm lying on my deathbed I want to look back and say I followed my dangerous dream rather than I followed a safe dollar (or pound or Euro or whatever they use in Britain these days).
There is a lot of merit in the suggestion to follow the money and provide financial security for your kids - but do you want them to grow up slaves to money or followers of their own dreams? It is said, if you do what you truly love the money will follow. Fortunately you also love teaching so you have the worst kind of dilemma - being torn between two loves.
The practical man in me says take the job, you can always leave it later should you wish.
The romantic within me says, forget the money follow your true calling regardless.
The reasonable man within me says seek the middle path and try to establish a life that allows for both the practical and the romantic.
Hmmn - reading back through this I realise my words probably aren't all that helpful so I'll close by saying that I wish you all the best which ever way you go. I consider you a rare and talented man and I'm sure that success in your chosen field is pretty much inevitable for you no matter what that field is.
Good luck and best wishes. |
Post by splinters // Apr 8, 2008, 1:25am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers guys, I expected nothing less from such a community and you are probably right, after all I am going to the interview and would never let myself down in the hope they won't choose me. |
Post by frootee // Apr 8, 2008, 4:34am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hi splinters.
They say, when the student is ready, the teacher will come.
Actually, that's not what I wanted to say initially (it was a spontaneous though) but I think it still has merit. This is what I really meant to say:
When you are ready, life will open the door for you.
You've been trying to open the Illustration door for 7 years. It has not opened for you. Life says, you are not ready for this.
This door, the career door, has opened for you. Life says, you are ready for this.
If we're hanging onto a piece of driftwood in a stormy river, we can't see what's around the bend. If we let go, we drown. If we hang on and let the river take its course, we'll see the river has calmed, around that bend.
That's the best attitude to take Paul: You are the person for the job. Putting yourself in that state of mind will convince the hiring officials you are the person for the job.
I think once you get the ball rolling with the job, more opportunities will open up for you. More students = more parents. This may be a networking opportunity. I am not sure if you meet with parents or not during the course of the year, but maybe some work for publishers. This is where networking comes into play (though I suspect you already know this :) ).
Sure it'll be hard work, but I get the impression that you also love teaching. Your students are proof of that (hemulin, for example :) ). So, you're already doing something you love, and doing that, is not Giving Up On Your Dream. Hell, I've been chasing mine since 1995! I'll never give up! Though I don't do enough now, I still do some animation/scripting/modelling, etc.
Go for it Paul! We're all rooting for you! :jumpy::jumpy::jumpy:
Froo / Jason |
Post by rrf // Apr 8, 2008, 5:31am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I also agree with Tiles, The job is your 'base' right now - if you are slated to 'make it' with Illustration, it will happen, and when it does it will partially be because you will have reasonable financial security. Illustration and Art in general is one field that doesn't have an 'age' boundary - you could 'make it' tomorrow, or when you're 65 (knowing your work, I don't think it will take that long :))
HTH
rf |
Post by splinters // Apr 8, 2008, 8:32am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers guys. It is worth pointing out that I had in mind to do the odd illustration job alongside personal projects, at least as a platform to get my own books noticed. It seems to me that an 'known' illustrator would be more likely to get a publishers attention than an unknown author/illustrator.
I have already done this but it gets hard telling clients they would have to wait until the Easter vacation for their work...;)
You are right, this has no age limit, while teaching (where you and your health/atitude) are on show daily, does. I need to make this move but I really hope I can still do some stuff towards my project. It would be very sad if I had no time at all to pursue these things. I would lose momentum if I had to wait three months or more between bouts of productivity.
Ah well, wish me luck and I will let you know tomorrow. |
Post by frootee // Apr 8, 2008, 9:02am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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well, good luck with it splinters!
As far as not having time, I think you said yourself that you work til wee hours in the morning anyways. :)
So I think you'll have time for illustration/authoring projects!
Froo |
Post by Igor K Handel // Apr 8, 2008, 10:30am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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For Splinters
For what its worth Splinters I have been in extremely similar circumstances 3 times now, and though at the time I wrestled I look now back and I honestly smile!
Rather than bore you with details of me I'll throw out a few questions that only you can answer in your private "where am I going, where do I want to go" Time. They helped me.
Is there a part of me that in years to come will regret I chose this route over the other.
Is what I am currently doing providing my family with a comfortable lifestyle, or do they NEED to have more money?
Do I feel bad about the current lifestyle my current income gives my family?
Heres a whopper that has worked twice out of the three times for me. Check this out BIGTIME. ( Only cos I didn't think of it the first time)
Have I got the energy to continue where I work AND spend shed loads of time working towards my Dream job/Goal. AS WELL!! And I mean REALLY?REALLY go for it!!! I mean put myself and my family in a position of me effectively having 2 jobs for a year maybe? 80 hour or more weeks etc
Do I treat my dream as a job at the minute? If not perhaps that is important to test? Would it become a chore if I did it ALL the time.
Am I in the slightest interested in the business aspect of being self employed.
Have I got the will to learn the basics of the boring stuff. Is my dream worth that bit of drudgery? ( Farm it out later)
A personal observation of myself. If I was in your position and I have been. If I let an interview dictate the route I end up taking I WILL regret it. The outcome of an interview should be AFTER you decide what YOU want not what they want!
Final thought, and it has served me well. For me personally if I do not follow my dreams I have not fully taken my life and given it my best shot! Assuming it does no harm to my family obviously. For me I would regret that and it would bug me til I croaked.
Take risks for sure, but calculated risks. Minimised risks. Research till you are blue in the face.
Think laterally. Ok here is a real life example to inspire you to think outside the box and to research like a demon. Sorry I said not about me but I want to let you see real world it can happen to ordinary guy)
My wife makes a quilted pictorial Santa cushion for our Settee. Never done it before. Next door neighbour sees it. "Hey thats nice can I borrow it for the weekend?" Strange but sure ok. Monday comes. Hey I am back the guys n girls at the office want 21 of them by friday, they will pay £8 each. So my Mrs goes with it and I get roped into cutting fabric on an old wallpaper pasting wobbly table. Me I am a Piano tuner of some 15 years at that time. My little dream starts to itch. Needless to say I can't Sew I dont know the first thing about the cushion business. LOL I can't even thread a bleeding needle ROFL Long story short. Work from home both of us whilst keeping down full time jobs. I research potential outlets. Early decision sell upmarket exclusive shops only. And only one shop per area. Next decision after research.. who are customers likely to be.... hey middle to upper class housewives.... hey My piano tuning customers.. For a year every Piano I Tuned I showed my cushions, BUT I asked to give me list of how much they would pay in their favorite upmarket shop. Extend range slowly to 30 pictorial designs) After 1 year I got to list of shops. Then research shops.. Their market customers ,what they stock, what cometitors products how much... bla bla .Then totally cold call. I say Hello Mrs sceptical buyer for shop, this valued customer of yours ... MRS BLA BLA (give name of piano customer) WOULD buy these from you for £16 if you stocked them.. OH and here is a list of your other customers who WOULD also buy them... So thats an immediate guaranteed sale of Bla Bla Before you have even gained a single new customer MRs Buyer. First time order ratio... 19/20.... thats unheard of from cold calling.... Research is the key to the avoiding following bad path.. Recognise dead ends and check options then proceed on refined route
OK So minimise risk keep paying bills, keep researching. Now getting silly falling down from doing too much. SO Decision. Scrape by on wife wage and ME lol give up Tuning as I earned less and ME go to a factory as the only MALE trainee stitcher. Man that was scary and well just weird. Those big women could have eaten me for breakfast. Ok learn learn research, keep expanding knowledge of dream business. Bizarrly I become Highest paid piece worker lol. 1 year later took plunge...Left. Now I run Business I stitch, I take on outworkers to stitch, I run around like headless chicken delivering and seeing new shop owners and current customers, all from a very cramped home.. Heck before Christmas my side of bed so high in Christmas cushion covers I have to climb in other side :)
To keep it short 5 years later 10 employees exporting to Europe, USA all UK, Eire, Plus distributer in Italy, 4 sales people across europe.Each day 1 Forty foot articulated lorry full of Cushions leave our little factory. Both my Wife and I fulltime in cushions. OH and I am sometimes sent off to give talks to potential Self employed new starts by the Government Grant agencies. They Funded various grants for export and research for our company, over the years to the tune of £50,000 ish. Our turnover about £10,000 a week. Last 12 weeks of each year hmm about £40,000 a week leading to christmas. By now more research so costs down. Material costs now only £2.59. Draught excluders, Man I couldn't believe that we needed to make 1000 snakes week lol (upmarket snakes they were)
And more research bla bla.. Become Manufacturer/supplier of cushion pads to the upholstry trade as well... Production up to 400 cushion pads ( The padded fillers) per hour. LOL A Veritable mountain. ( my kids loved it ) More reasearch, Manufacture supply backs and seats for Settees and 3 piece suites.. Hmm about 100 Suites worth a week ish
Pay the bills and follow your dreams too. Life is too short!
Every best wish for whatever you chose
IK |
Post by Igor K Handel // Apr 8, 2008, 10:37am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Ps
Don't mention the Chinese. Thats for after your decision :cool:
IK |
Post by hemulin // Apr 8, 2008, 8:50pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Good luck with your interview splinters. :) |
Post by Saul // Apr 9, 2008, 12:59am
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Saul
Total Posts: 32
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...my wife just sees $$ for a that new kitchen...
Do a Gauguin, throw her and the kids out and turn the kitchen into a render farm! |
Post by MadMouse // Apr 9, 2008, 1:23am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Sorry to come too late to this thread to offer much council Paul. You've probably had or are have the interview by now.
So let me just say good luck. And I know that illustration is your passion, and no matter how busy our lives get we will always find some time for our passions.
ATB mate
Steve |
Post by daybe // Apr 9, 2008, 1:55am
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daybe
Total Posts: 562
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Me too. An Illustration career can be rewarding, but it can also be a hard journey, feast or famine is the general rule. Not sure what the state of the illustration business is on your side of the pond but here in Canada it pretty tough, really competitive. The key is marketing, getting your name out there to art directors book publishers and so on. If you can slowly build a reputation while you continue to work full time this may help with the pocket book.
I would say continue on the path you are on already, get you work out and keep working on your books, they are great, like I said marketing is the key.
Keep on keepin on |
Post by splinters // Apr 9, 2008, 7:57am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Problem solved!
I didn't take the job. Much too much work for not that much more money. Pus they couldn't offer me a position teaching my area of 'expertise'.
So, all in all, I am better off where I am until something else comes along.
Cheers for the advice guys, and those kind comments mean a lot.
Haha....I'm back....:D |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 9, 2008, 11:13am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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No Problem, ever.
I guess if it aint broke....... |
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