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My Support for Truespace goes on ....
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
My Support for Truespace goes on .... // Roundtable
Post by jhowell // Apr 12, 2008, 12:16pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Boy, sure been seeing alot of comments about Truespace lately. Especially after the Microsoft takeover. As a very occasional Truespace user (using much more now of course) since version 1 for almost 20 years I must say how much I truly like the program. Here is why. I am pretty good at XSI and using its character animation tools. I even bought the digitaltutors.com character animation movies for XSI. Well, I thought I would try to rig a standard free download HORSE.OBJ mesh in both XSI and Truespace 7.5. Even with XSI's great character building templates and my knowledge after watching the XSI movie tutorials it took me over 2 frustrating hours in XSI. Then tried same horse mesh in Truespace 7.5. That took 20 minutes including weight painting (how fun is weight painting in 7.5!), joint limiting setup (come on, joint limiting setup in Truespace 7.5 is just wayyy to easy) and rendering 800 frames in a couple minutes in stunning real time rendering quality. I will post all of that in a tutorial. Point is ... where are all the RAVES! Iam sure raving. Anyway, thats my 2 cents! Thank you Truespace and in my mind no better compliment in the world than Microsoft!:banana:
p.s... additional free truespace tutorials
REAL TIME BUMPMAPS
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5272
CAMERA TRACKING MATCHMOVING SYNTHEYES TUTORIAL
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5259
5 FREE "RIGGED" CHARACTERS FOR TRUESPACE 7.0/7.5
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5241
ANIMATING OPACITY IN WORKSPACE
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5286
APPLYING PHYSICS CONSTRAINTS TO CHARACTERS
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5293 |
Post by frootee // Apr 12, 2008, 1:47pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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wow man. You're on fire dude! Keep it up!
Froo |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 12, 2008, 4:10pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Gosh how nice to hear such unfettered enthusiasm for a cool application. Great to hear you enjoyed rigging and animating with the new bones system as some people seem to think they don't work!;)
Just a word of caution - too much enthusiasm for trueSpace can get you labelled as a fanboy around here. :p:rolleyes:
Sarcasm aside it's great to see someone else as happy as I am with the new bones. Joint limit set-ups is so simple it feels sinful and the weight painting is not just fun it's pretty to watch too!
Now I haven't quite got my head around the joint locks and other intricacies of IK - I tend to use FK instead - so if you're thinking of doing a tutorial on joint locks I for one would love to see it!
And to second the Froo - keep it up man!
EDIT> Oh I see you have a physics constraints tut - that's cool! My pc is rendering a HUGE Mojoworld scene right now but I'll have a play later with the info in your tut - Thanks! |
Post by jhowell // Apr 12, 2008, 4:45pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Thanks Wizard. I was thinking what is making Truespace so easy for me when it comes to rigging is this ...
1. When using the BUILD SKELETON TOOL Truespace does such an outstanding job at "centering" bones automatically in you meshes and mesh limbs that once you get real good at it there is just a little positioning of the bones in your mesh needed after the initial placement of the bones. I think for me that is the biggest timesaver compared to my XSI. That makes rigging a joy.
2. Because I use XSI alot I get a headache from the boring display. Working in Truespace realtime while rigging just seems so natural and so fast. Very easy on the eyes and easy to see the bone placement through out your mesh. BIG AND COLORFULL placement .. like all the controls and features in Truespace. Amazing other 3d programs never offered the realtime display. Seems like a no brainer.
3. When I weight paint in XSI the display is shades of grey and white. That can be changed of course but still is so much harder to see and control than the bright green and yellow weight painting in Truespace. Huge timesaver.
4. Setting joint limits I dread in XSI and is a chore to me. Of course Truespace's joint setting widget you just pull a little and the arm or leg bends and it snaps the joint setting to position. You actually see the arm or leg bending as you are setting the widget. Becomes so second nature and easy that when you go to your XSI or MAYA or MAX you think wow that was sure easy in Truespace.
and finally. I realize there are bugs in Truespace. I read all the posts and most are minor bugs and people work around them or figure them out ... or live with them. example for me, like rendering thousands of realtime frames, if it locks up or wont do it just break up the rendering in to blocks. When I real time render lets say 10000 frames I break it up in to blocks of 1000 each. No problem at all. That I found out happily. And even that only takes minutes of rendering time instead of hours in other programs. Like Truespace in the past it still has features way ahead of its time and those features are hard to live without once you have experienced them. :banana: |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 12, 2008, 6:06pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Yes that has been exactly the same experience I've had, except I don't use XSI :D. I do have Lightwave 9 which is a very sweet bit of kit and can do wondrous things but nothing that can beat the satisfying immediacy of rendering high quality real-time animations in a matter of seconds.
My current animation project includes a 25 second segment rendered with model side LightWorks - took all night to render. The other 3 minutes or so use the DX9 renderer which produced hi resolution image sequences in a matter of seconds - I love that!! |
Post by tSplorer // Apr 12, 2008, 10:04pm
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tSplorer
Total Posts: 27
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So howcome XSI is considered a highend app and TS is not? I don't get it. This at a time when I'm about to buy XSI Foundation.:mad: |
Post by Tiles // Apr 12, 2008, 10:21pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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... as some people seem to think they don't work!
I don't think, i don't guess. I KNOW that the bones system doesn't work for me. Not because i lack of knowledge, but because of bugs. Provable in the bugs section.
Show me the workaround for the bug that made it impossible to go on with rigging because the default pose refused to work proper and i may change my mind. But even then, there are too much other bugs in the way for my flavour ;) |
Post by jhowell // Apr 12, 2008, 10:54pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hi, I brought up XSI because I use it daily. It is of course super professional as is Maya and Max. And costly too. All I know is that for me personally I work many times faster and funner (fun is important) in Truespace 7.5 than XSI. Truespace inspires creativity for me because of the easy workflow and unique features. And I am getting so addicted to rendering hundreds of frames in minutes instead of hours. As for the bugs mentioned below I find if I come across something that DOES NOT WORK RIGHT at the moment I first click on the DEFAULT VIEW button next to the 4 view button at the top. That many times for me is all it takes. If that does not work I save the project not the scene and then click on the RESET TO DEFAULT button at bottom to totally clear and restart Truespace THEN reboot computer and reload scene. And problem most the time is solved. Dont have to do it very often of course. Also, I try always working in the WORKSPACE only and turning off bridge. Boils down for me the BENEFITS of Truespaces AHEAD OF ITS TIME innovations outweights the annoyances.
So howcome XSI is considered a highend app and TS is not? I don't get it. This at a time when I'm about to buy XSI Foundation.:mad:
p.s... additional free truespace 7.5 tutorials
FREEEEE.. SUPER IK RIGGED SKELETON FOR TRUESPACE 7.5. ACCEPTS BVH ANIM CLIPS.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=68189#post68189
FINALLY, YOUTUBE IS NOW OFFERING HIGHER QUALITY!
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=67332#post67332
STUNNING EFFECTS USING CHROMAKEYING GREEN/BLUE SCREEN.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=66672#post66672
REDUCING POLYS AND NORMAL MAPPING ALL IN ONE CLICK.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=66528#post66528
USING ADDITIVE BLEND MODE WITH ANIM CLIPS
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=66093#post66093
7 MINUTE RIGGING THE DINO OBJECT
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5347
DEXTER CHARACTER WITH SOCCER BALL KICK BVH
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=65501#post65501
REAL TIME BUMPMAPS
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5272
CAMERA TRACKING MATCHMOVING SYNTHEYES TUTORIAL
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5259
5 FREE "RIGGED" CHARACTERS FOR TRUESPACE 7.0/7.5
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5241
TANK GIRL RESKELETONED SO YOU CAN DROP ANIM CLIPS ON TO HER TOO.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=66617#post66617
APPLYING PHYSICS CONSTRAINTS TO CHARACTERS
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5293
FREE BVH ANIMATION CLIP VIEWER FOR YOUR TRUESPACE BVH CLIPS
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5367
OUTSTANDING WEBSITE FOR TRUESPACE 7 SCRIPTS.
http://www.clintons3d.com/truespace
MUCH HIGHER QUALITY THAN YOUTUBE! SHOW YOUR TRUESPACE CLIPS ON BLIPTV.
http://blip.tv/file/865095
http://blip.tv/file/835014
http://blip.tv/file/882037
http://blip.tv/file/915714
HOW I "REAL TIME" RENDER THOUSANDS OF FRAMES SUCCESSFULLY.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5370
GIF MOVIE GEAR AT http://www.gamani.com IS ONLY ANIM GIF MAKER MAKER THAT I HAVE FOUND THAT ANIMATES HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS
OF FRAMES IN 256 COLOR GIF IMAGE FORMAT AS A GIF IMAGE. SUPER FAST EASY VIEWING FOR ANY WEBSITE PAGE. LOOK AT THIS 4000 FRAME TRUESPACE REAL TIME RENDERED FILE IMAGE AS A ANIMATED GIF IMAGE! ..
http://4webs.biz/truespacestuff/april29dancingskeleton4000framesmall15speed.gif
ABOVE ANIMATION IS A TRUESPACE 4000 FRAMED REAL TIME RENDERED GIF IMAGE! WAY SPEEDED UP OF COURSE. ANY WEBPAGE CAN VIEW A GIF FILE. EVEN PEOPLE WITH SLOW MODEMS. AND LIKE ANY IMAGE TYPE FILE IT CAN BE RIGHT CLICK AND DOWNLOADED. |
Post by transient // Apr 12, 2008, 11:12pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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All I know is that for me personally I work many times faster and funner (fun is important) in Truespace 7.5 than XSI.
Ironically, this is why I prefer 6.6 over 7.5. I had a look at foundation and decided I couldn't use a crippled version of essentials, I would suffer from too much envy. At least with tS your getting the whole thing.
Also, I try always working in the WORKSPACE only and turning off bridge. Boils down for me the BENEFITS of Truespaces AHEAD OF ITS TIME innovations outweights the annoyances.
I like the real-time renderer too, but it's no vray. I think 7.5 was a bad release in many ways, maybe a year too early. Hopefully, that's actually the case and 7.6 will cut the mustard.
If not, I'll probably keep using 6.6 (if I can get my hands on a polytools serial), and eventually start focusing on blender more, as nowherebrain is currently doing. Blender is mostly doing right what trueSpace is getting wrong at the moment. |
Post by Tiles // Apr 12, 2008, 11:41pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Opening TS 7.5 Workspace, trying to do the simplest things and ending in making a screenshot and reporting a bug, doing the work in 6.6 then because 7.5 doesn't let me, has killed most fun for me. You can really follow when i have touched the workspace in the bugs section. I will not touch 7.5 again.
6.6 is the better trueSpace for me. Because it lets me do and even finish my work.
The thingie with the Polytools serial is really a bad issue. I wish there would be a solution. Polytools are essential for 6.6. But nobody was able to contact the author. |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 13, 2008, 2:47am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I'm with tiles. |
Post by Burnart // Apr 13, 2008, 12:57pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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When 7 was first announced we were led to believe that its development included the porting to the new environment of pretty much all the tools from the old version - virtually identical in operation or new and improved versions of those old tools. This still hasn't actually occurred. Certainly some of the new tools - ie bones, and animation editing environment are excellent. However, too many of us feel like we can't use the workspace because it just doesn't offer the tools we expect or require in a form we can use/understand.
tS is becoming a very different beast - there is a feeling that some users are being left behind. The real excitement and interest in the new version seems to be through the scripting environment and LE. This is an impressive tool and all kudos to those who have picked up and run with it but for many of us its not a tool/environment we feel comfortable in. The other interesting area is real time display - but again its a speciality that doesn't always reflect what people want to do with 3D modelling/rendering software.
When the next announcement about an update is made that's going to cost me I really need to be convinced that the workspace is going to start filling my needs more than it currently does. If I can't render without buying a plugin that costs almost as much as the core application then frankly I'm going to seriously think about alternatives ..... but I'd rather support tS if I'm given the opportunity. |
Post by kena // Apr 13, 2008, 1:39pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I do not remember that Burnart. I thought that it was announced that the 6.6 was going to become the modeler space and that porting of the functions was going to be completed by version 8. do you have a link that shows that it would be ported over by the current version? |
Post by Burnart // Apr 13, 2008, 2:17pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Kena, I wasn't saying that it was meant to be done by a specific version whether thats 7, 7.5, 7.6 or 8 - isn't my point. Sorry if they way I wrote seemed to make it look that way. My point is simply this, tools that people want to use aren't yet there and this is causing some people to look elsewhere which is Caligari's loss. People like nowherebrain have been pretty vocal on this issue for quite a while.
Forget the money for a moment, if you invest your brain into learning new software then you are making a substantial commitment. Its almost like marriage! - :p big decision and once you have made the decision you give it your best shot and forget about your early loves in order to get on with it. |
Post by kena // Apr 13, 2008, 4:09pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Thanks for clarifying. I would say that if you do not want to go through the growing pains, stick with version 6.6. Skip version 7 all together. Version 8 is supposed to have no model side and all things ported over or rewritten for Workspace.
It is often frustrating to have to use a bridge between platforms within the same program to accomplish a task. and that is what we have with version 7.x
going with each and every upgrade gives an advantage of being able to play with the new tools as they are developed... but that is not always a recommendation to do it that way.
I honestly got version 7 with the expectation that there would be (sometimes huge) problems with it that would have to be worked around. I expected that it would take a year or more to get to version 8. This is why I have not made lots of complaints. I'm getting what I expected to get.
I understand that many other people expected much more. It's a problem with software as good as Truespace that people automatically expect more than was promised. I think that if we stick where we are for now, we will indeed get something more. Having the patience to wait can be hard sometimes. |
Post by transient // Apr 13, 2008, 5:01pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I would say that if you do not want to go through the growing pains, stick with version 6.6. Skip version 7 all together.
I'm using 6.6 and liking it very much.
But expecting people to wait years to get what they paid for now is a recipe for disaster. Caligari didn't sell me "transitional" software; I was sold, I thought, a viable vray option.
Waiting is fine for people who dabble, or are happy to bide their time for the real-time stuff to hit the big time (I'm still skeptical, but more than happy to be proven wrong).
The main problem with 6.6 is it has been made obsolete by Caligari. For example, it's impossible to find serial numbers for polytools or clothmotion, which is a major issue for me. Most of the plug-in crowd has disappeared, lots of broken links and dead sites. 6.6 is kind of like a zombie that is gradually having bits drop off it.
It's a shame because if it was still in full-flight I would happily recommend it, especially if it was still getting big fixes. |
Post by Burnart // Apr 13, 2008, 5:17pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Thanks for clarifying. I would say that if you do not want to go through the growing pains, stick with version 6.6. Skip version 7 all together.....
I've already said that my preference is to support tS and Caligari - ultimately that is a 2 way street. They have to support me.
We have already paid for one transitional upgrade. If the next paid for upgrade (regardless of whether its 7.6 or 8) still doesn't deliver an almost fully operational workspace (ie doesn't fulfil the needs of the users) or is still far too reliant on the legacy side then I kind of wonder what I'm paying for. It is all well and good to have whiz bang new tools like cloth sim but if people can't output the results in the form required because the environment is incomplete then that's a problem.
Can I say again I WANT to support tS - I haven't jumped ship - but I need some more information and incentives before I fork over more cash. |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 13, 2008, 5:30pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Can I say again I WANT to support tS - I haven't jumped ship - but I need some more information and incentives before I fork over more cash.
You may or may not get that information. But of course, you knew that. :)
...something about that bull being lead around the ring, not knowing that it is being displayed ultimately for the slaughter house that keeps popping in my mind. |
Post by kena // Apr 13, 2008, 6:04pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I've already said that my preference is to support tS and Caligari - ultimately that is a 2 way street. They have to support me.
We have already paid for one transitional upgrade. If the next paid for upgrade (regardless of whether its 7.6 or 8) still doesn't deliver an almost fully operational workspace (ie doesn't fulfil the needs of the users) or is still far too reliant on the legacy side then I kind of wonder what I'm paying for. It is all well and good to have whiz bang new tools like cloth sim but if people can't output the results in the form required because the environment is incomplete then that's a problem.
Can I say again I WANT to support tS - I haven't jumped ship - but I need some more information and incentives before I fork over more cash.
Now, I can agree with this. You are speaking of a subjective reaction here. And you reaction is very valid. If you get version 8 and don't get what you feel you paid for, and Caligari does not correct the situation, it is time to be looking at other options. 7.51 is still too reliant on the model side. But we knew this going in. I have higher expectations of version 8. all these partial upgrades are just that - partial upgrades. A transition from one product to a completely different product.
Model and Workspace are two different products. They are packaged under one roof, but they are different packages. |
Post by splinters // Apr 14, 2008, 12:51am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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As I said before, I am one of those staunch supporters of model side until all features I need are ported over...but I am managing with only Workspace lately quite happily.
Yes folks, I am slowly being converted to the workspace... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 14, 2008, 5:39am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Great news Splinters! :banana:
Glad to hear that you're coming over to the dark(er) side. :p :D |
Post by KeithC // Apr 14, 2008, 6:03am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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One thing I was wondering; will the current 7.5 demo be replaced with a 7.6 demo? If so, then everyone can "try before they buy". ;)
Of course, this is just the observation of a guy at an "unknown quantity".:D
-Keith |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 14, 2008, 6:25am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I think that's a good idea Keith. 7.5 is sort of a crappy version to demo compared to 7.6... ;) |
Post by KeithC // Apr 14, 2008, 6:27am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Good, then it's unanimous!:D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 14, 2008, 6:28am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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LOL Yep! :D |
Post by Burnart // Apr 14, 2008, 1:04pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I've said it before and I will say it again - I'm never going to spend much more than "playtime" in workspace until I can do renders from that side without having to spend a great deal of money on a partially implemented render plugin.
Alternatively all animation created in workspace crosses the bridge into the modelside. (I think it would be easier to port lightworks over to workspace). Kerkythea, Indigo, dribble etc render pathways would also be most welcome.
(The other thing that concerns me is what about a Motion Studio equivalent for workspace.....?) |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 14, 2008, 2:52pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I think that's a good idea Keith. 7.5 is sort of a crappy version to demo compared to 7.6... ;)
At least he admits it about 7.5. :) |
Post by frootee // Apr 16, 2008, 6:05am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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At least he admits it about 7.5. :)
The point being, it makes more sense to have a 7.6 trial version for people to try before buying 7.6.
Rather than, use the 7.51 trial version for people to try before buying 7.6. |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 16, 2008, 6:17am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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The point being, it makes more sense to have a 7.6 trial version for people to try before buying 7.6.
Rather than, use the 7.51 trial version for people to try before buying 7.6.
Or perhaps training videos made for 7.1 sold to users of the 7.51 version which was completely different in style and sometimes application. :D |
Post by spacekdet // Apr 16, 2008, 6:21am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I don't know about you, but I hear the theme song from 'Titanic' playing in the background when I read this thread.
Maybe it's the topic sentence.
Just don't anybody yell "Man the Lifeboats!" yet, ok?
Carry on! |
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