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What is it about WOW textures?
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What is it about WOW textures? // Roundtable
Post by Eagle // Apr 21, 2008, 3:03pm
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Have you played WOW? Have you seen the graphics they use in the game? Even though they are very simple the whole game comes to life when you are playing it. What is it about the graphics that gives them this effect? I have attempted several times to recreate a WOW style world but it never seems to have the same effect as the real WOW levels. Anyone know what I am talking about?
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 21, 2008, 3:45pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Dunno maybe this is it?
texture convert for Blizzard Wow
http://downloads.curse.com/details/2641/
A photoshop method
http://www.edowner.net/Texture-Tutorial/ |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 21, 2008, 4:18pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Could you provide an example/comparison?
Maybe an analysis guess?
Specularity
Matte finish
Glossy appearance
Environmental lighting
etc. |
Post by nowherebrain // Apr 21, 2008, 4:46pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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think Disney, oversized parts for some structures, simple bold and colorfull. If you cannot recreate the feel, practice recreating the actual environments, then add some of your own twists...my advice...of course I am still working on "ValiantBlack" and it's not quite done so..take my advice for what it is worth(not much...lol/kek) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 21, 2008, 9:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I know exactly what you mean Vickie. I'm definitely a fan of the World of Warcraft texture style. I've seen similar styles used by other game artists as well. Though I can't seem to find any examples to link at the moment. :(
Like Nowherebrain indicated it's a form of cartoonizing. The strategy is to abstract the texture using bold color and 2D styled strokes. I think aligning the UV mapping to key features helps as well to get crisp lines in the texture even at low res. |
Post by DblQt // Apr 22, 2008, 3:10am
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DblQt
Total Posts: 9
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If you want to take a closer look at the textures (off-line)you can use the following tool.
http://www.deep-shadows.com/hax/3DRipperDX.htm
It can store model data and textures onto your file system (i believe it is obj).
Of course the material is still copyright protected. |
Post by Délé // Apr 22, 2008, 3:14am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Although I wasn't able to get WoW to work on my computer, I have seen screen grabs and videos of gameplay. I have seen similar graphic styles in other games as well, so I do understand what you're talking about.
Personally I think the biggest factor is the shadowing. It looks to me like a lot of the textures either have baked Ambient Occlusion or just have shadowing painted into the textures. Good shadowing can do two things. It can create contrast which visually makes textures pop. It can also make soft color variations that make the texture more interesting to the eye. I think WoW employs both uses of shadowing effectively.
While I think shadowing is the biggest part of it, I think there is also a lot of detail put into the textures as well. They make sure it looks as clean as possible at the low resolution they use. Like Jack mentioned, I think solid UV mapping contributes to the clean texture look as well. So I think there are a few things that really make these textures visually interesting, but I think the biggest influence is the excellent use of shadowing, both to make colors pop and to create soft color variations. |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 22, 2008, 3:55am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I was looking a still image, may not the same as the "in game" image and was thinking how I would do it.
Sampling the colors onto circular disks and then extruding the disks, I used some lights and shadows to simulate the texture (with out bump)
What I found, is in my opinion, that they may use a lighting system on each texture and an environmental lighting map for the entire image.
Note the lights and shadow inclusion on the disk example.
They also use a lot of layered textures. Like some human models I've seen, use as much as 10 layers of transparent skin differences to give the skin a realistic effect. |
Post by parva // Apr 22, 2008, 4:36am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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or just have shadowing painted into the textures.
yes I think the same.
It's a MMORPG and the engine has to be fast to run on most PC's.
At all I don't see any gpu based realtime shadowing in the pictures like here (http://www.the2ndsky.ch/wow/uploads/Screenshots/wow-tv_der-anfang2.jpg)
Mostly baked textures I guess. Prerendered Shadowing and lighting into a diffuse map.
I never played it but from the screenshots I saw
I have also the feeling that the color style is very contrast intensive. |
Post by Délé // Apr 22, 2008, 4:48am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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The promo images for WoW are much more high res. For low res game content, it's cheaper to bake shadows and use simple lighting. If you want to see game screen grabs, you can find some on google images using a search like "world of warcraft + gameplay".
I could be wrong, but it really looks to me like they bake shadows.
Here's a good screen grab:
http://www.computergame.com.au/userimages/user1166_1161324847.jpg
What I notice most out of that image is the deep dark soft shadows. The darkness of the shadowing makes everything pop, but the softness of the shadows create smooth color variation. I think it's this combination of clean textures with deep rich soft shadows baked in that make that interesting look.
Edit:
I have also the feeling that the color style is very contrast intensive.I agree, I think both the color scheme and deep shadowing make that strong contrast. It makes everything pop. |
Post by frank // Apr 22, 2008, 5:41am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Hrm...
I've never played WoW but looking at the screengrabs I'm thinking it's certainly more 'cartoony' than other games in shading style.
Have a look at some Team Fortress 2 (http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/06/team_fortress_2_preview.jpg) and Battlefield Heroes (http://www.battlefield-heroes.com/video) screengrabs and video. (Skip ahead on the Battlefield Heroes video to see actual gameplay. It's very nice-looking!)
If that's what you're after, then there are some technical explanations* of how the shading is done in those type games.
*
http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2007/NPAR07_IllustrativeRenderingInTeamFortress2.pdf
http://www.primotechnology.com/2008/02/25/gdc-08-the-illustrative-world-of-team-fortress-2/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJBNSDIOBXo |
Post by parva // Apr 22, 2008, 6:40am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Little addition maybe goes a bit offtopic but
a really great bonus would be the possibility of trueSpace to render into textures.
Especially with a Raytracer like Vray it would be amazing.
Think that you build your scene in workspace, apply textures and all that stuff, lighting all without limitation.
Now render in Vray. What you see is a snapshot, in realtime it will still look different but now think on a nice tool like render to texture.
You set the size of the textures, which kind (diffuse, lighting , specularity etc.) and set if you want to bake all objects in scene into on large map or each object individual. Select the UV coordinate (original like from the main mesh or new, quasi autounwrapping) and hit render...
RTT does the rest.
Now after the process is done the workspace objects are applied with the "baked" textures, lighting, shadowing if you wish everything as texture, visible in realtime. You could directly export your models in gameengine as well as the new baked textures.
Nearly all new games use textures based upon render to texture feature (3ds, Maya, Zbrush etc.). |
Post by transient // Apr 22, 2008, 6:48am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I would think this would be a must for any serious real-time application.
Unless I'm mistaken, dribble should be theoretically capable of doing this now through 3delight.:confused:
For Carrara owners there is a plugin which does this called Baker (http://www.inagoni.com/content.php?content.3). I only mention it because I know there are a few people here who got Carrara in the free deal in 3dworld a few months ago.;) |
Post by parva // Apr 22, 2008, 7:27am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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I would think this would be a must for any serious real-time application.
Agree but Carrara baker seams to have the same limitation like 3ds max -
you can just render individual objects and this is extremly time consuming if you want to render a bunch of objects
or impossible if you want to use the same uvmap.
3ds got a nice plugin I find really cool. It was used for the video game Witcher, called RTTGroup (http://www.rendertotexture.com/index.php?view=overview).
With the support of more then one UV coord channel we don't have such a limitation also.
Channel 1 could be used for cubic uv, the Channel 2 could be used as part of an object group (like RTT does). |
Post by jayr // Apr 22, 2008, 8:02am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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theres a good tutorial for modelling and texturing a 'game' type character at
http://www.3dtotal.com/
in the e-books section it's called 'the swordsman'
I've been following it again to make a low poly torso and legs to add detail to but it shows teh texturing and painting shadows directly onto the model to 'fake' detail. |
Post by Délé // Apr 22, 2008, 11:31am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I would really like to see baking in tS as well. It could bring our real-time shared spaces to a whole new level.
3d Coat (http://www.3d-coat.com/index.html) can bake ambient occlusion and is an inexpensive program. I've played with it a little bit but haven't yet had the time to make a real-time scene with baked objects. I'm hoping to have time to try that soon.
They have a nice helmet tutorial. At the end there is an image that shows the helmet before and after baking ambient occlusion.
http://www.3d-coat.com/tutorials/3d_helmet_9.html |
Post by Eagle // Apr 22, 2008, 1:33pm
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Thanks for all the comments Guys; I think that you are right about the baked textures.
If I can just find the right mix for making these worlds I know I can duplicate a realm in
WOW. I have to find a way to get this look,
http://www.eaglesoftworxstudio.com/WOW_Screens/hunter.jpg
I can always make my graphics better but that’s not what I am trying to do. I want
to make a world that has this toon like feel to it. I will post a side by side picture so
you guys can see what I am talking about~
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 22, 2008, 2:06pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Thought it would be interesting to look where the shadows might be. Dark shades of gray being the shadows and lower in depth, lighter shades of gray to white are height. |
Post by transient // Apr 22, 2008, 3:36pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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3ds got a nice plugin I find really cool. It was used for the video game Witcher, called RTTGroup.
That's a nice tool, I wasn't aware this was possible. Pretty cheap for a 3ds plugin tool.:cool: |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 22, 2008, 4:05pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I wonder what plans Caligari has for plug-ins for trueSpace.
Can't blame the plug-in authors heading for greener pastures after being abandoned with the new interface. |
Post by Eagle // Apr 23, 2008, 6:27am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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That's a nice tool, I wasn't aware this was possible. Pretty cheap for a 3ds plugin tool.:cool:
This can be done in TS7, thats not the problem, I can make the models all
look like the models from the game "Witcher" with the shadows and bump
maps;
http://www.eaglesoftworxstudio.com/Witch_Gate/Argoth.jpg
but this is not where I want to go with this game. I want it to look like WOW
or a BugsBunny cartoon. With those kind of graphics. I just seem to be
locked into this mode where everthing I make is over detailed and dark
looking. I want to find a way to make the graphics light and fun ;)
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by TomG // Apr 23, 2008, 6:44am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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It's a good question, I tried to tackle it in making a small indoor inn or pub, and capturing that cartoony look was something I never managed to do, it turned out to be far trickier than it seemed!
As Vickie says it was keeping the clean, bright, colorful cartoon look yet still looking like a piece of wood or stone tiled floor that was tricky. Wood or stone floor was easy, but that was detailed and photo real and not simplified and cartoony.
I think if you solve it in 2D then you'd be onto a winner, just paint that onto your 3D object - so the big question / challenge would be to make a convincing cartoon 2D wood texture etc.
I'd like to see this project continue, I may even re fire up the old scene I was messing with, would be fun to try it again :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Steinie // Apr 23, 2008, 6:50am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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One way is to avoid Black and use dark colors instead. You have the details but not the variety of color like the example you showed in WOW. Cartooning is my background and I can tell right away the difference between your work and theirs is the number of colors used.
Your going to either make the textures by hand or modify the textures you use to get more colors used. |
Post by Eagle // Apr 23, 2008, 6:57am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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It's a good question, I tried to tackle it in making a small indoor inn or pub, and capturing that cartoony look was something I never managed to do, it turned out to be far trickier than it seemed!
As Vickie says it was keeping the clean, bright, colorful cartoon look yet still looking like a piece of wood or stone tiled floor that was tricky. Wood or stone floor was easy, but that was detailed and photo real and not simplified and cartoony.
I think if you solve it in 2D then you'd be onto a winner, just paint that onto your 3D object - so the big question / challenge would be to make a convincing cartoon 2D wood texture etc.
I'd like to see this project continue, I may even re fire up the old scene I was messing with, would be fun to try it again :)
Thanks!
Tom
YES!This is exactly what I am talking about, you are right on Tom! And yes, I
think it must be within the 2D side to make it work also, I think Dele is right
about the baked graphics as well. I will post pictures of how this is going.
The first few may be pretty bad (fair warning..LOL!) but I’m going to do this~
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by Eagle // Apr 23, 2008, 7:02am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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One way is to avoid Black and use dark colors instead. You have the details but not the variety of color like the example you showed in WOW. Cartooning is my background and I can tell right away the difference between your work and theirs is the number of colors used.
Your going to either make the textures by hand or modify the textures you use to get more colors used.
Thanks Steinie! Thats good to know, I also didn't know you have a
background in Cartoon graphics. Any advice you have would be Most Welcome!
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by TomG // Apr 23, 2008, 7:09am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I think this would be fun to contribute our own cartoony textures, make a little community library of these. Wont be for a while that I can find and retry the inn scene, recreating a WoW type inn in shared space was my thinking when I started that over a year ago but time meant that I dropped it.
Might be fun to resurrect it again though, and also see what other folks come up with.
The other thing with WoW when it comes to geometry is big, chunky shapes, and they are usually a little off kilter, with imperfect shapes rather than strict right angles.
But lets start with textures first and take it from there. What fun!
Tom |
Post by Délé // Apr 23, 2008, 7:50am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I forgot all about it but I've got the "Toon Textures" CD in my Total Textures collection. Looking at those helps to see what to aim for.
They do have some samples that you can look at up on the website that give some insight into creating these kinds of textures. Might be worth a look.
http://shop.3dtotal.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=199
Edit: I really think the key to this style is deep soft shadows giving contrast to clean colors and simplistic uneven shapes. |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 23, 2008, 7:57am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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There is a pretty good amount of games and baking tutorial videos
at the luxology site !
Many of the baked textures you see in games nowadays are baked in Modo !
There are quite some nice examples you can look at there !
If you have Vue Inf you can bake in that and export !
Peter |
Post by Eagle // Apr 23, 2008, 8:25am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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I forgot all about it but I've got the "Toon Textures" CD in my Total Textures collection. Looking at those helps to see what to aim for.
They do have some samples that you can look at up on the website that give some insight into creating these kinds of textures. Might be worth a look.
http://shop.3dtotal.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=199
Edit: I really think the key to this style is deep soft shadows giving contrast to clean colors and simplistic uneven shapes.
This is a very nice site Dele! thanks for the link~:)
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 23, 2008, 8:43am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Heres a link eagle !
http://www.luxology.com/press/release/082306_Lux_Massive.pdf
Its to one the luxology press releases.
I saw a video somewhere on the site related exactly to what you
were asking but cant rememberf where but look around the site !;)
Peter |
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