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A world of online books?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
A world of online books? // Roundtable
Post by splinters // May 2, 2008, 9:39pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Sorry to run another thread on this, but I have put my heart into doing the Buddy World project mentioned elsewhere...and will, but I would appreciate your thoughts on the validity of the project from a commercial point of view.
It is too much work to set up and run for free and I would not find the incentives so I have to see this as a 'money earning' project even if I don't make millions.
So, a little poll and feel free to add any comments.
For the record, Buddy World promises to be a unique online world offering a world of characters, locations and books not found anywhere else. Thanks to the digital medium every experience can be interactive and change according to the time of year; Christmas books, Halloween etc.
As a subscriber you can see projects grow live and even add your own comments. I may even have a designed 'by you' book.
These books cannot be found anywhere else and it will be a safe place for you and your children to share time exploring and reading together.
The pricing plan is vaguely as follows:
1. Yearly subscription for £4.95. You will get one free book, 1 pepe movie wallpaper and a £1 credit to use in the shop.
2. Each book will cost £1 to download/access. This means to get in and get everything costs just £25
3. Wallpapers will cost £1 and ringtones the same (for the older children!)
4. A CD is available for £19.95 saving you £10 and a lot of time accessing all the website.
5. The store will eventually sell merchandise such as greeting cards, calendars and maybe even 'real' books.
I do not want advertising in there but I realise that is how money is made. However, I want to become an affiliate of other sites and make links to my own. I want the experience to be accessible to users in other sites; perhaps from their own libraries.
I do not know exactly how unique this is. Are there many other online library experiences like this; ones that have books to read and offer an edutainment experience? I realise most sites are but how many offer the books too?
Anyway, gotta go to work now (earn some real money), appreciate everything in advance.
P.S Can you only choose option 4 from the point of view of a parent or carer, I realise people with no young relatives would have little interest anyway. |
Post by ghost--scout // May 2, 2008, 11:00pm
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ghost--scout
Total Posts: 85
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Not really sure what the target age group is, but my son is 7 months old and although he may not get the full benefit of the series because of his age, he likes watching cartoons and being read to so I am sure he would like this as well. |
Post by splinters // May 3, 2008, 2:00am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Not really sure what the target age group is, but my son is 7 months old and although he may not get the full benefit of the series because of his age, he likes watching cartoons and being read to so I am sure he would like this as well.
Maybe this will help. Oh, and there are 25 books at the time of writing with 2-3 in development as well as a few all new titles in my head...:D |
Post by rjeff // May 3, 2008, 3:05am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Splinters you need one more category on your poll. If follows
Not sure what anything cost because I have no idea what that funky symbol and the numbers means.
well atleast another category for me anyway!:) |
Post by splinters // May 3, 2008, 4:00am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Splinters you need one more category on your poll. If follows
Not sure what anything cost because I have no idea what that funky symbol and the numbers means.
well atleast another category for me anyway!:)
Fair point but I do have to decide on a single currency so why not pick the one from my country. For dollars you would have to double those figures given the current rate of exchange. I will, of course, list dollars and euros on the 'real' site...;) |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 3, 2008, 5:11am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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If you are going to charge a subscription, you may want to add a forum or chat area for the kids to create and exchange their own Buddy World stories. ;)
Basically for parents to want to continue to pay, there's needs to be some kind of continually generated services or community (like World of Warcraft for example). I think the idea of charging a club membership fee before making a person eligible to buy your products seems like a barrier to sales. And there's the issue with kids clicking on things and charging things on their parents credit card accidentally. It could work, but I think having the CD and hardcopy/digital books available for purchase without a membership would be important.
Best way to market it once you get the website going, would be to create a Buddy World game CD which is distributed in video game stores as an "Edutainment" title and then have the website sign up featured on the game as additional content and fan community.
From there you could even sell Buddy World merchandise like toys, stuffed animals, sippy cups, coloring books, and clothing. |
Post by Johny // May 3, 2008, 5:33am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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How about make it available as interactive dvd rom. when the user can use dvd player remote control for select icons then click ok for continue. |
Post by splinters // May 3, 2008, 5:46am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers Jack, I need plenty of critical responses like this so I can get a handle on how it may be perceived.
I cannot give all this suff away nor can I see anyone paying for it all upfront; that is why I suggested the membership. I will be continually adding new stuff but it does take time.
Of course, I could allow access to the full site but I am worried that no-one would download the books and then I would have done all this for nothing.
Your points are very valid though and I try to imagine myself paying for this if someone else set it up...it certainly would be easier to charge for 'entrance' once then not have to mess with each books but how much to charge?
Too little and you get a lifetime of books (old and new) with no extra charge despite the effort I would have to put in to make them.
Too much and no one comes in at all...
Mmm, food for thought.
As for the games, this really is about books with interactive elements and a sense of exploration. I really don't have the skills to make games and I cannot see this in a game shop. Besides, the CD is made using ezedia which, while reliable, is not exactly industry standard...:o |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 3, 2008, 6:02am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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A lot of times Edutainment titles are little more than interactive books and some themed minigames. From what I've seen they are always buggy and kinda crappy from my point of view, so I think your quality of work would be a step up and would do very well in the market place.
The thing to keep in mind is it's about building a brand. Once you have the brand established you can make a lot of money through the merchandising side of the business.
I think you may want to separate membership (free w/ purchase of Buddyworld product) from subscription (Fee based, and grants access to new content as it is released). A point to keep in mind is that if you charge a subscription fee, you need to reliably provide monthly new content. Compare with proTeam from Caligari and keep in mind that proTeam didn't fair so well... |
Post by trueBlue // May 3, 2008, 6:09am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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You might want to view this site:
http://www.webkinz.com/us_en/
Very popular with the kids here. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 3, 2008, 6:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Very cool trueBlue! That's a great example! :D |
Post by Johny // May 3, 2008, 6:46am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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with divX author you can customize your own DVD menus, chapter points, subtitles, audio tracks, motion thumbnails.
http://www.divx.com/divx/windows/author/detail.php
maybe with this tool you can create many menu, menu inside menu, etc.. (using dvd menus as interactive tool).
you can download 30days trial version for test it. |
Post by jamesmc // May 3, 2008, 7:00am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Contests giving away content is always good too. :D
Of course, wielding a profit first is always better before contests are held.
Sometimes, the announcement of a contest can be held after a product is purchased (sneaky yes, but it works)
There was an article on the person who wrote Harry Potter and how it was difficult to set aside commercial prejudice in order to remain creative.
I'll let you know if I find it. It had some interesting insights on the problem of going commercial versus creativity. |
Post by splinters // May 3, 2008, 7:17am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Great insight as always guys and lovely to see so much positivity in a thread too.
I am starting to see your point of view better too. I would be happy if Buddy World doubled my salary each year. I am not greedy-just want to share what I have made over the years, cut out the greedy agents and picky publishers, and make something for my efforts. I would like to license characters, musiv, images etc. and possibly get sponsors. Didi duck is all about travel, lululamb about fashion, pepe covers movies and coco is about food.
I can see plenty of obvious links in just those four books but I would not want to 'sell out' to any companies who would remove the innocence from the site.
I would hate to see a big golden M creep into the pics...:rolleyes: |
Post by spacekdet // May 3, 2008, 8:03am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I would hate to see a big golden M creep into the pics...
That would be terrible.
Everyone knows how unsuccessful McDonald's is.:rolleyes:
One of my younger nephews is a fan of 'Club Penguin (http://clubpenguin.com/)'.
One of the items on his birthday wish list was a subscription to the site.
Quick online process, wish fulfilled.
Might be something you could include in your research.
From what I saw of it, he jumped right in and started earning virtual money to outfit his character and it's online habitat by playing minigames... 'Buddy Bucks', anyone?
Emulate success.
Good Luck. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 3, 2008, 9:07am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I can totally appreciate you wanting to develop this whole thing yourself but - well, many hands make light work. And, while I'm throwing the clichés around (with wild abandon, no less) it seems to me there is little point in reinventing the wheel.
It seems to me you are stepping out of the world of Children's author/illustrator into the very different world of internet business and entrepreneurship. To do this effectively you will benefit hugely from the experience of others who have done this type of thing. Marketing, particularly internet marketing is a specialist subject all by itself - my advice therefore is to consult the professionals.
People who have already done some sort of successful internet marketing should be able to assist you to avoid pitfalls and unnecessary expense and hopefully show you a few shortcuts to success.
Somewhere in a city near you there will be a Small Business Development body who should be able to offer priceless advice and insight into running a successful internet business.
It could be very well worthwhile to check them out - hope this helps |
Post by splinters // May 3, 2008, 9:17am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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You are correct Wizard.
This is, to some extent, a knee jerk reaction to the way my work has been received by the publishing industry...negatively.
They like my 'work' but have always had trouble trying to market it due to the CGI nature of the illustration. Those who have shown commercial interest have always been those looking for digital markets so it seemed like the natural route to take.
I am still looking to be an artist/author but, in this venture, a digital one. I would still consider selling the printed version; I am just offering this in a different version for now.
Still, I do need to look into many aspects of this. At the moment I am struggling to find the time to make or convert the actual content.
A typical scene here involves a laptop, a book next to it on learning Dreamweaver, google searches going, scenes rendering, tS open linked to a 40GB hard drive full of Buddy World stuff, Exam papers waiting to be marked...I think you get the idea...:o |
Post by splinters // May 6, 2008, 9:59pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Still 3 days left if you would like to vote. Cheers. |
Post by v3rd3 // May 7, 2008, 5:29pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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Splinters, it may be the fault of some rather ignorant publishers but your questions in the poll include wording that anticipates rejection (e.g. cannot see the point in paying). I suggest that you try the poll with:
1) I love the concept of reading books online with my children/grandchildren and would subscribe to such content.
2) I am interested in the concept of reading books online with my children/grandchildren and would certainly try it.
3) I prefer reading printed books to/with my children/grandchildren and would not use an online service. |
Post by splinters // May 7, 2008, 10:09pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Good point and you are probably right; years of rejection from 'paper' publishers does leave a certain negative residue.
I will make future comments more positive. After all, it is, or rather was, their loss...;)
Also, I appreciate the honesty here in your replies...it helps a great deal. |
Post by Igor K Handel // May 8, 2008, 8:58am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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From past experience (Not internet marketing) I have to agree with Wizard
People who have already done some sort of successful internet marketing should be able to assist you to avoid pitfalls and unnecessary expense and hopefully show you a few shortcuts to success.
Somewhere in a city near you there will be a Small Business Development body who should be able to offer priceless advice and insight into running a successful internet business.
Sometimes areas of a proposed business idea, positive or negative, may be spotted by an expert with a fresh outlook on a business idea.
I have found Small Business Development units to be an amazing asset, and when they can't help, it's rare when they don't know someone who can!
Oh and when thrashing out and fine tuning your potential business, you are also talking to the very people who know all about gov funding, grants etc. I personally had over £35k of gov funding for my business, half of which were non repayable grants. IE FREE FINANCE!! And that was simply because I sought advice from this type of body. If you think about it, if they help YOUR business to thrive THEY look good and get more support from THEIR upstream.. It's WIN WIN.
In addition Small Business development teams I delt with also sorted out and funded market research, IE Polls, Questionaires, competition and market analyse, and that included my business strengths weaknesses, opportunities and threats.. these are all well known tools for helping to get any business venture on the right track from day 1.
Observation...Some of your blatently obvious strengths... storytelling / artwork / presentation / attention to detail / perseverance. These are just some of the obvious qualities I have seen.
So business skills, internet marketing, research, funding, accountancy, negotiation skills, etc etc? These are are valuable skills that will help. If you already have them great, but I 100% agree with Wiz,, why try to be good at everything when there are experts just waiting to help you out... they certainly helped me!
Some Business Dev Team is just waiting for a fantastic product like yours to walk into their office... I believe you have a product that they will fall over themselves to be associated with. If I had 10% of your talent I would be a very well off businessman :)
Best Wishes
IK |
Post by splinters // May 13, 2008, 11:55pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Thanks for the support guys, the results are exactly as I hoped or expected.
There is no substitute for a real book but at the same time, it is difficult to make them interactive and expand the interest in them beyond the story itself. This is where I want to make my site different with dynamic content that changes according to season, celebration and eventually per user.
So I am cracking on with this now confident that I a doing the right thing...I just need an 8th day in the week...:o
Cheers again.
:banana: |
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