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How do I unwrap models for texture creation?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
How do I unwrap models for texture creation? // Roundtable
Post by davidjohnson // May 11, 2008, 6:17am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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I am trying to unwrap a model (it doesn't seem to have a texture on it) and I want to take it into Photoshop and work on the texture, but what happens is the UV mapping editor in TS6.6, it is impossible to see anything - it looks like a jumble of lines. I have tried the UV tweak from Primitive Itch and that doesn't seem to export anything at all. I am not sure what most people do at this point to text their model without seeing the flat spread of the texture... |
Post by clintonman // May 11, 2008, 7:23am
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clintonman
Total Posts: 304
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The Gamespace forums had a good tutorial on uv mapping, but it looks like the information was removed from the forums. Here is a link to a kind of tutorial I did a long time ago.
http://www.clintons3d.com/truespace/TS_TextureUVnotes.html
It's a bit of a mess, but read the text and follow the pictures in a counter clockwise direction from the upper left. For some reason the text doesn't match up with the pictures.:o |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2008, 8:53am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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UV Cow is probably the best tool for UV mapping in TS 6.6. But the best approach is to use an external program like UU3D:
http://www.unwrap3d.com/
If you're working with organic models I recommend:
http://www.uvlayout.com/
Unfortunately it's a bit pricer.
A free option is Roadkill:
http://www.pullin-shapes.co.uk/page8.htm
(Download the Maya version, it has a standalone editor.) |
Post by davidjohnson // May 11, 2008, 9:04am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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yeah, I am having a hell of a time with it. I got a free 3d space ship model, pulled the uvmapping texture using the native 6.6 tools and it is the size of a postage stamp when I open it in PS. I can't do anything with it because resizing it larger makes it look like an old Atari game.
I then tried the UV tools from Primitive Itch and that was better at pulling the texture from the mesh, but when I tried to reapply the texture, it wasn't there or something it wasn't even close to where it was supposed to be.
Now it might be because it is originally an obj. model - but I was hoping it would be ok.
I am looking for the standalone of the last one your mentioned - roadkill, but can't seem to find the download for a standalone for TS. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2008, 9:06am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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For Roadkill, you have to download the maya version. It includes the stand alone.
The issue you may be having with the UV texture export, might be because your texture is too small. I use a 1024x1024 (or 2048x2048) texture size when exporting UV maps. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 11, 2008, 9:07am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I said a few days ago that I cant understand
why Caligari spends so much time on making
an awsome realtime engine when the most
important feature I would expect this typ of technology
to do is realtime UV editing .
In the end we have to shell out some money (and I spent lots )
on UVlayout.... to get some of the hardest parts of 3d working .....
oh yeah we have morphs etc.
I expect very much from TS 8 !
most of all in the UV field !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2008, 9:09am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree 100% Rayman! I've been saying for ages that UV mapping is the most important and most difficult part of the UV process, and it is essential to creating good models. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 11, 2008, 9:12am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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thanks for the heads up on roadkill Jack....
So we are 2 now who want it !:D
Peter |
Post by davidjohnson // May 11, 2008, 9:29am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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Tried it and it doesn't seem to have a way to export the texture (looked through the manual), so I am not sure what the point is - but probably something that I missed. Right now, it has been a waste of a few hours of my time and frustration is setting in. I just want the texture map from a map so I can bring it into PS and edit it. Too much to ask of my novice ability I guess. |
Post by GraySho // May 11, 2008, 9:43am
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GraySho
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thanks for the heads up on roadkill Jack....
So we are 2 now who want it !:D
Peter
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=1328&highlight=lscm
That's at least 3 of us. And this thread is oold.
DJohnson: Apply a blank texture of the size you want to export first (e.g. 1024x1024) to your model, then the export will be of the same resolution. |
Post by JimB // May 11, 2008, 9:55am
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JimB
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Heres one from the GameSpace site:-
http://www.caligari.com/gamespace/tutorial/uv_map1.asp |
Post by Burnart // May 11, 2008, 1:01pm
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I must admit the on-board uv tools in tS have generally left me scratching my head. I've never figured out how to use them either.
Heres an approach that uses free software though I have to admit it looks a bit convoluted.
http://www.uvmapper.com/downloads.html
The "classic" version is a free.
Use the luuv plugin to export an obj file open it in uvmapper. There is a tutorial. Thats the straightforward method.
http://www.uvmapper.com/tutorials.html
My models are never that complicated so uvmapper works well for me. It helps if you have your object assigned with different materials. Uvmapper can select groups of polys by their material and apply different mapping operations to them. Truespace/luuv don't output material information in quite the right way so I generally import the objects into Wings3D first and paint them up and re-export afterwards.
There are lots of little tricks that come through experience - when I export for use in Wings3D I usually export as a 3ds file. (An obj exported from tS/luuv can end up with the normals a bit scrambled when opened in Wings3D for some reason.) In Wings3D you find it has been triangulated - but wings has an "untriangulate" function which does a pretty good job although you can get in there and manually tinker as well if you need to. (The biggest tip for using Wings3D I can give is use the right mouse button - virtually all the tools you need such as apply material, )
http://www.wings3d.com/
Export from Wings3D to wavefront obj file format then load into uvmapper. Sounds convoluted but its actually easy when you have done it a few times. (ain't that always the way!) |
Post by davidjohnson // May 11, 2008, 1:38pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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It would be nice to see a tutorial for Wing3d because maybe that is the best and easiest way of accomplishing a texture unwrap and re-wrap. |
Post by transient // May 11, 2008, 2:18pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Right now, it has been a waste of a few hours of my time and frustration is setting in. I just want the texture map from a map so I can bring it into PS and edit it. Too much to ask of my novice ability I guess.
It's going to take a lot more than a few hours to master uv mapping, no matter what you use. Sometimes 3d is hard, that's why there's so many 2d artists and graphic designers out there.
Clinton's tutorial is probably the best way of mapping in truespace, and is all you'll need unless you want to map something really complex (even then it's fine if you have the patience). If you have ipak, you'll have more uv mapping options (it's the same as gamespace).
Roadkill is just the blender uv mapper, so you could cut out the middleman and use that. Blender's got excellent lscm mapping, which is good for faces and other tricky geometry.
TS should have no problem exporting a uv layout. Maybe you can post a few screenshots and it will be easier to se what's going wrong. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2008, 3:03pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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GraySho's UV tutorial is a good start too:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2276
Roadkill's not for texturing, it's for laying out UVs via LSCM. The UV map needs to be arranged into something useful before exporting the map out for painting. That's why people use UV Editing programs.
You can save UV maps out straight from TS using the Export Bitmap icon in the UV Mapping Editor. But like GraySho mentioned a few post back you need to assign a mapped material (and a colormap) to the object to set the UV size. Any 1024x1024 bitmap should be fine. If you don't have one, then make a gray 1024x1024 image in your paint program and apply that to your model.
UU3D, has several modes for exporting the UV map, including a "fill" mode that blocks in the interior of each of the UV islands for easy painting. UU3D is a great program for getting started in UV mapping and it's worth it's price just for the format conversion. |
Post by transient // May 11, 2008, 4:13pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Roadkill's not for texturing, it's for laying out UVs via LSCM. The UV map needs to be arranged into something useful before exporting the map out for painting. That's why people use UV Editing programs.
Roadkill is just "blender lscm for maya". You can arrange your uv's the same as any other mapping software, there's no benefit to using another program for this.
Imo there's no need to buy uvmapping software as the steed method (which is what native ts is good for) or lscm works well. You have to consider that mapping is an acquired skill like everything else in 3d. You can take shortcuts, but if you learn the techniques the hard way, no special software is needed for a quick map.
I've been mapping since max 2 (using morphs to arrange the mesh), and my technique hasn't really changed. The tools have improved, but the principle's still the same. I don't seem to be tortured by uvmapping like many others, and I think it's because I took the time to learn the hard way first. |
Post by jamesmc // May 11, 2008, 4:28pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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The problem with trueSpace UV mapping and respective tutorials (with exceptions) they only include flat surfaces and simple objects.
There needs to be an entire collection of objects (all the primitives) and many types of objects, all with precise instructions on doing UV mapping.
Also, as a follow on, there needs to be tutorials on texturing in 2D paint programs with UV maps.
Lastly, there needs to be many tutorials on how to apply UV maps once the texture is done.
I think the problem here in Caligari is:
(1) Modest Tools
(2) Conclusive and Comprehensive Education
(3) Complete follow through on the Education (from cradle to grave(finish)
Actually, it's not the problem of Caligari, it is with most 3D software out there. |
Post by Burnart // May 11, 2008, 5:04pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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The problem in ts is that the tools aren't straightforward to use. I got the gist of UVmapper first time I ever used it and have been refining my technique ever since. (Admittedly nothing I do is that complex.) On more than one occasion I've sat down with ts and said to myself I'm going to learn the onboard uv tools only to walk away as frustrated and confused as ever an hour later. As David described at the start I just end up with a collection of lines. I've looked at Clinton's tute and really I'm none the wiser (no offense Clinton).
I'd be happy to do all my uv mapping in ts but it's like there is some secret arcane mystery to trueSpace uv that only the chosen get to know! (Of course I have to make another admission - I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack. :p ) |
Post by transient // May 11, 2008, 5:19pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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There needs to be an entire collection of objects (all the primitives) and many types of objects, all with precise instructions on doing UV mapping.
There's plenty of tutorials on the net for uvmapping for other products. They're generally universal, once you know your software. There's also a book by Paul Steed that has some good uvmapping tutorials in it. It's 3ds specific, but the version I have is easily transferable to truespace.
I totally agree with the points you made with regards to education. The big guys don't have to worry, as they have third parties lining up to offer training at all levels. Plus there's usually a free online tutorial that covers pretty much everything.
I got the gist of UVmapper first time I ever used it and have been refining my technique ever since. (Admittedly nothing I do is that complex.) On more than one occasion I've sat down with ts and said to myself I'm going to learn the onboard uv tools only to walk away as frustrated and confused as ever an hour later.
The principle is quite simple, but yes I agree it's not the easiest part of truespace to learn. I've given up debating the merits of comprehensive documentation for these things, as the smaller guys never listen. They seem to think that leaving it up to the community a la 3dstudio is workable, but frankly it isn't.
You really need to have a large user-base for this to work properly. Even then it's hit and miss. Blender has learned this the hard way, and they're beginning to get it (I think). |
Post by jamesmc // May 11, 2008, 5:28pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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There's plenty of tutorials on the net for uvmapping for other products. They're generally universal, once you know your software. There's also a book by Paul Steed that has some good uvmapping tutorials in it. It's 3ds specific, but the version I have is easily transferable to truespace.
Tutorials for other products.
There's the rub, now isn't it? |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2008, 6:42pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree with Transient about learning the basics. I learned via tutorials for Maya, but the basics still transfer over. Really all you need to know is planar projecting sections of your mesh and then stitching them together.
I use a grid based UV texture that helps me tell how bad the texture stretching is and then I go in a tweak the UVs until I get a result I like. Yes it's tedious, but it's a skill that *must* be learned if you want to make professional models. Even when automatic solutions are used to save time, the results almost always need manual tweaking.
The model side UV Editor is very basic, but on model side it does have the tools to get the job done if you can cope with the tedium of moving individual UVs around to tweak the layout after the initial projections have been made, sized, and positioned. Workspace side UVE has some serious bugs in 7.5 that make it very difficult to use. In either case, a 3rd party app will net you tools that will make the job easier and quicker if your time is valuable, but don't expect a magic one click solution.
Workflow examples with slightly complex organic shapes would help the users out a lot. Here's a UU3D tutorial I found a while back:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2785
The link appears to still work. Keep in mind that it's using an old version of UU3D. :p |
Post by jamesmc // May 11, 2008, 7:18pm
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jamesmc
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Evidently, just learning the basics isn't cutting the mustard for 90 percent of the people who don't do 3D for a living or as a serious hobby.
After more than two decades in the computer world, surely some one who understands UV mapping completely would step up and write comprehensive tutorials?
There appear to be many apologists and "Oh I learned it, why can't you" attitudes when it comes to UV mapping, texturing of the UV map and applying the map.
Quite frankly, that sort of attitude is not helpful and turns people off.
All one has to do is look at a product like Adobe, After Effects, Premier Pro and PhotoShop which are tremendously complicated and see the hundreds of thousands of tutorials and video tutorials that are out there. Most are well presented and display "each and every step" necessary.
The word games of "I've got a secret and ain't telling" or "there is no one click" answers are over.
No one wants a one click solution, they want frickin instructions and well written ones and with well made videos.
That is today's standard, not the standard of "Oh I learned on Model A Fords" where there were no manuals. |
Post by transient // May 11, 2008, 8:21pm
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transient
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Evidently, just learning the basics isn't cutting the mustard for 90 percent of the people who don't do 3D for a living or as a serious hobby.
If you can't commit the time to learn this properly, then that's not really anybody else's fault. Sometimes, 3d stuff is hard to learn, and that's really just the harsh reality of it. I've always said that the best plug-in you'll ever get for any 3d program is FHW. I'll let you figure it out.;)
I agree that truespace sorely needs more documentation, and one day I might do a truespace specific video or tutorial on my uvmapping technique, but I don't have the time right now.
If that's a turn off, I can't really help that. |
Post by jamesmc // May 11, 2008, 8:37pm
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jamesmc
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If you can't commit the time to learn this properly, then that's not really anybody else's fault. Sometimes, 3d stuff is hard to learn, and that's really just the harsh reality of it. I've always said that the best plug-in you'll ever get for any 3d program is FHW. I'll let you figure it out.;)
I agree that truespace sorely needs more documentation, and one day I might do a truespace specific video or tutorial on my uvmapping technique, but I don't have the time right now.
If that's a turn off, I can't really help that.
No, the harsh reality is that there are people unwilling to commit to excellence in educational tutorials.
I just found a 3 and half hour video on Digital Tutors for UVmapping for XSI.
I may just move my tent as that program is looking more and more attractive and has the tools and massive amounts of training video that are finished and presented.
I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time here when I could be 500 percent more productive else where. |
Post by transient // May 11, 2008, 8:49pm
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transient
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I think you're being a bit dramatic, but if you want to use other software that's no worries for me. I do too.
I would suggest not going to xsi, especially if you think truespace is hard to learn. I'm not going to recommend others as that is not the done thing here. |
Post by jamesmc // May 11, 2008, 9:01pm
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jamesmc
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I think you're being a bit dramatic, but if you want to use other software that's no worries for me. I do too.
I would suggest not going to xsi, especially if you think truespace is hard to learn. I'm not going to recommend others as that is not the done thing here.
I've watched quite a few videos on XSI and understand it better than trueSpace.
Besides, the point is, I'm wasting productive time, waiting and hoping when there are tools out there that can get the job done I need to get done.
Tired of sitting at the bus stop watching the buses pass by. Time to move on. |
Post by transient // May 11, 2008, 9:19pm
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transient
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I'm not trying to talk you out of using other software. Go for your life. |
Post by TigreStripe // May 12, 2008, 12:25am
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TigreStripe
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On more than one occasion I've sat down with ts and said to myself I'm going to learn the onboard uv tools only to walk away as frustrated and confused as ever an hour later.
Whew! It's good to know I'm not the only one.
Ah well, the marketing made it look easy. :D |
Post by Steinie // May 12, 2008, 12:42am
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TS UV mapping is poop.
I've spent countless hours trying to use it in a clean, organized manner but each time have gotten frustrated. It should be improved or rewritten.
Who here can honestly say that they do all their UV Mapping using TS?
Because of the lack of ease, documentation, and (I think Bugs) I was forced to pay for another piece of Software that I shouldn't have had to do.
I have complained about this many times but only got Cloth, Hair, Booleans.... compared to those UV Mapping is Soooo secondary!...:rolleyes: |
Post by transient // May 12, 2008, 1:24am
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transient
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I don't see how this is a big deal. It's uvmapper doesn't have lscm, but apart from that it's okay. Lscm is overkill for 95% of the models I see here.
The uvmapper could be better, but it's far from useless. |
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