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Blender 2.46 released
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Blender 2.46 released // Roundtable
Post by transient // May 19, 2008, 4:21pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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There are still things about Blender that I don't like, but every release is filled with such goodness. I hope the next version of truespace is this stunning. In fact, I would accept half.
I'm mainly posting this as there was a discussion about uv mapping recently, and this release is major upgrade to what were already powerful tools. It also now has roadkill's stretch maps, so I don't really see that app being necessary now, as it was very slow imo. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 19, 2008, 7:11pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Always good to have more tools and Blender makes a great middleware app for getting thing from TrueSpace into other apps and renders. :) |
Post by TylerZambori // May 20, 2008, 4:19am
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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well, I'm excited about it. Maybe I will use both programs together.
Blender has so many features going for it. I just need a bigger
monitor. |
Post by jamesmc // May 20, 2008, 4:56am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Nice list of changes to Blender.
Can be viewed here:
http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-246/ |
Post by Mel // May 20, 2008, 6:45am
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Mel
Total Posts: 9
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Sure wish TS would come out with a list like this. |
Post by Tiles // May 20, 2008, 7:52am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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And I wish Blender would have a human interface ... |
Post by prodigy // May 20, 2008, 8:12am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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LOL yes..
i tried to make a cube but it was impossible. |
Post by RAYMAN // May 20, 2008, 8:51am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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And I wish Blender would have a human interface ...
I wish Blender would have AN interface !:p
No question about the features !
Peter |
Post by splinters // May 20, 2008, 10:31am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I just read in 3D World that indigo renderer is out of beta too and a full version 1.0 is available...is this old news? |
Post by transient // May 20, 2008, 3:09pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I would happily trade all of the feature upgrades in 7.6 for bug fixes and a return to the 6.6 interface. It was really something.
I think indigo 1.0 has been out for a month or so. |
Post by spyfrog // May 21, 2008, 11:54am
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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I would happily trade all of the feature upgrades in 7.6 for bug fixes and a return to the 6.6 interface. It was really something.
I think indigo 1.0 has been out for a month or so.
Thank you transient, I thought I was the only one here who can't get used to the new UI and prefer the old one! :( I think the new UI in TS is a real step backward from the previous - which is really bad when you think about that one of TS strong points where the UI.
However, the new UI of TS is still much better than Blender. The problem with Blenders UI is that you need a lobotomy to work with it. Unfortunately, all the developer and other key user already have had this procedure done so they are happy with the UI... |
Post by transient // May 21, 2008, 5:55pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Blender's problem is that there's no real shortcut's when you are learning it - you have to know what the buttons do before it starts to make sense. It also doesn't have shortcut customization, which is a major hassle for me. |
Post by Plum // May 22, 2008, 2:26pm
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Plum
Total Posts: 39
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Hiya
Blender's problem is that there's no real shortcut's when you are learning it - you have to know what the buttons do before it starts to make sense. It also doesn't have shortcut customization, which is a major hassle for me.
I *totally* agree with this. Their current shortcut/hotkeys make NO sense at all. Whenever I sit down and try to figure out the interface, I always read "With Blender, have one hand on the keyboard, and one hand on the mouse!" Their hot keys were obviously not made for someone who speaks English as their first language...so as soon as they allow an easy way to change hot keys, something like XSI would be PERFECT, it will be thousands of times easier for me to learn.
Personally, I want to be able to hit "E" for going into Edge mode. Then LEFT click to select some edges. Then "C" to connect those edges with a new edge loop. Plane and simple. Need to extrude a face? Easy. Hit "F" for faces. Then "Ctrl-E" and extrude away! A two-key combo is my personal limit. If I have to hit three keys at once, they better be VERY close to eachother. So, Ctrl-S-C is ok...but Ctrl-E-7 is right out.
*PS: Ctrl-E-7 is the 'hotkey' in blender for selecting an Edge Loop...something that is done ALL THE TIME when modeling... |
Post by transient // May 22, 2008, 3:54pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Shortcut customization is coming with the release of 2.5, early 2009 I think. One thing that Blender excels at is giving a good heads up of what's coming, and fixing bugs. |
Post by Electric Jim // May 25, 2008, 7:53am
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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For what it's worth:
I've been investigating Blender recently, and I can say that although its interface is certainly more minimalistic than trueSpace's -- but then again, which interface ISN'T? :) -- it DOES have a lot of consistency and make a lot of sense. (And its shortcuts WERE written for "English first" speakers.) Going through a single introductory tutorial worked wonders for getting a handle on things. (Oh, and to use LEFT click to select -- as I, too, prefer -- just change that setting in the User Preferences window.)
One thing to keep in mind is that many of Blender's keyboard shortcuts aren't combinations so much as sequences. For example: "R" to start rotating (with the default axis always being perpendicular to the current 3D view -- what we tS-ers call the "Screen" frame of reference), then (optionally) "X" or "Y" or "Z" to limit the axis to the associated Global axis (which we call "World" space), then (optionally) "X" or "Y" or "Z" again if you want to switch to the currently-defined "secondary" frame of reference, such as Local (i.e., "Object"), Normal (as in "the normal of the selected polygon"), etc. In many cases, the keyboard shortcuts display small pop-up menus, the entries of which correspond to the next keyboard character in the shortcut sequence (so if you don't remember the full sequence, you can just click the selection from the menu). (One thing that confuses some people is that "G" ("Grab") is the shortcut for moving in 3D space, rather than "M", which is used for moving objects between layers.) I had never been much of one for using keyboard shortcuts before, but Blender got me somewhat in the habit of using them, so now I'm going to have to take a second look at tS's shortcuts... :)
Blender is an impressive product for open source freeware, and in fact shares certain ways of doing things with trueSpace (which helps demonstrate the soundness of such methodologies, in my opinion). They both offer a Link Editor for certain tasks (including advanced material construction) and they both utilize Python for scripting, for example. Blender's built-in renderer is quite capable, including some nice "special effectsy" aspects and (in the most recent release) high-quality hair/fur. And a few of Blender's methodologies -- such as the (new) ability to specify user-defined frames of reference to work in (instead of just the standard World, Object, and Screen), and the use of the 3D cursor (which turns out to be surprisingly convenient for such a simple little thing) are ideas I'd like Caligari to examine for inclusion in trueSpace.
Of course, trueSpace's depth of functionality and ease of use blows away much of Blender's, as one might expect (at least, if you include the Model side of things as well as Workspace): tS's point editing tools and organics modeling tools are second-to-none, it's armature/skeleton/bone features are SOOOO much more powerful, flexible, and easy to use, and its ability to combine physics with rigged "rag doll" characters is (to my knowledge) unique. To name just a few things. And, assuming the new features work as well as I hope, it appears that some of the additions in tS7.6 will "fill in a few of the gaps" that can make people give Blender a second look: tS "morphs" appear equivalent to Blender "shape keys", the real-time Booleans are the equivalent of "Boolean modifiers" in Blender, and tS cloth/soft body physics is equivalent to the like-named simulation capabilities in Blender. (I can't say much about Blender's "non-soft-body" physics, which apparently is geared mainly toward its use in game simulation. trueSpace's is so much easier/more intuitive to utilize that I didn't bother investigating Blender's.)
Much of my motivation for looking at Blender in the first place came from a desire to have a single, consistently-implemented set of interface paradigms across the board (as opposed to having to remember one way of doing things in Model and another in Workspace). Other than hoping that the new features in tS7.6 work well (both individually and "synergistically", i.e., in conjunction with the other features), my primary hope for the new version of trueSpace is that it gets a LOT more of the existing Model-side functionality ported over to the Workspace side. The less time I have to spend switching between two different interfaces in tS, the less interest I have in even looking at other solutions. ...And yes, it could very well be nice to have some of the good aspects of tS6.6's interface, which were changed in the Workspace UI paradigm, be made available in Workspace, as Transient and some others have said. But I've come to realize that for me, consistency -- i.e., having a single interface to work in and with -- can be even more important than making sure that interface is the best (most efficient, convenient, etc.) one.
My apologies for the length of this post. I hope it's of some use. :o |
Post by transient // May 25, 2008, 3:10pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I'll wait for 7.6 before I do a detailed comparison of ts and Blender. It wouldn't be fair at the moment as the last Blender release was crazy. |
Post by Tiles // May 25, 2008, 9:22pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I try since years to find my way into Blender. Without success. And that's not because i didn't try. I try regularly. And give frustrated up regularly.
Point is, when i learn the 11th hotkey i have forgotten the first. My neck is acking from those hot key pressings after ten minutes. It breaks permanently my workflow by looking down where the next hot key is. When i remember what it was.
I am a very visual person. Gimme an icon at a button. I will remember it. You can even hover with the mouse over the button to have a look what it is, in case you forget it. Now try that with a hot key ;)
The nearly non existant GUI (the existant button menu is unbelievable cluttered. And parts appear and disappear, giving you no chance to even find out them) makes it simply unbelievable hard to find your way into this software. And it makes it even harder to use when you really find your way in.
What's the best feature worth when you cannot reach it? Blender is the opposite of intuitive. You need to learn every step by the manual or a tutorial. Nearly no chance to find out the things by yourself. There is no button to click at with which you could test what it is thought for. It is a hot key. This may work for a professional app that you touch eight hours every day for several weeks and months. And that's how Blender started those days. But Blender is mainly used by hobbyists now. And even after several years the maker ignores it.
For me it is simply no fun to work with Blender. I miss a human GUI. Well, yeah, does a good job in conversion. That's what i use it for :) |
Post by transient // May 25, 2008, 10:32pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Point is, when i learn the 11th hotkey i have forgotten the first.
Unfortunately I have the same problem. One of the reasons I like ts so much is the ability to set hotkeys quickly - ctrl f1 over an icon and it's done.
This enables me to have great flexibility. Basically I have a section of my keyboard I leave spare, and I use them as needed. I always know where the shortcuts are, and it only takes me a few seconds to set them up as I need them (for repetitive things).
For many functions I don't bother setting hotkeys, because at 1280 ts's icons all fit nicely on the screen. I use the pi panel tools to tab them out of the way when I want more room.
It's all very fluid and nice to use. |
Post by jamesmc // May 25, 2008, 10:39pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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A lovely site with some nice Blender tutorials and keyboard shortcuts, video tutorials, tutorials and much more. :)
http://www.gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html |
Post by moogaloonie // May 27, 2008, 8:24am
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moogaloonie
Total Posts: 64
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Hiya
I *totally* agree with this. Their current shortcut/hotkeys make NO sense at all. Whenever I sit down and try to figure out the interface, I always read "With Blender, have one hand on the keyboard, and one hand on the mouse!" Their hot keys were obviously not made for someone who speaks English as their first language...so as soon as they allow an easy way to change hot keys, something like XSI would be PERFECT, it will be thousands of times easier for me to learn.
Personally, I want to be able to hit "E" for going into Edge mode. Then LEFT click to select some edges. Then "C" to connect those edges with a new edge loop. Plane and simple. Need to extrude a face? Easy. Hit "F" for faces. Then "Ctrl-E" and extrude away! A two-key combo is my personal limit. If I have to hit three keys at once, they better be VERY close to eachother. So, Ctrl-S-C is ok...but Ctrl-E-7 is right out.
*PS: Ctrl-E-7 is the 'hotkey' in blender for selecting an Edge Loop...something that is done ALL THE TIME when modeling...
I miss the days of Caligari Broadcast on the Amiga, when I could work for days without bothering to pick the keyboard up off of the floor (which was where I kept it as it was only ever used for naming files). Maybe that's why I like Wings, I can do almost everything with just two keys (ctrl to navigate and shift for incremental). Blender is a product of a computing ecosystem that thinks command line interpreters are FUN!
I prefer the new, easier-on-the-eyes darker look of the new tS UI, one small reason I took another look at tS last year.
BTW, I tried locating Ctrl-E-7 and got a sharp pain in my left hand that I can still feel. There goes keeping one hand on the mouse... Hey blender peeps, have you ever heard of a place called PARC? Maybe someone could show you around there some time... |
Post by splinters // May 27, 2008, 9:24am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I prefer the new, easier-on-the-eyes darker look of the new tS UI, one small reason I took another look at tS last year.
...
Nice to hear something good said about the UI. I have some issues with the actual 'layout' of the UI in 7.5 but I think the colour scheme, icons and overall feel are much more professional than earlier versions. |
Post by nowherebrain // May 29, 2008, 12:28am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I've been using blender for years. Took a while to understand, but it is actually very fast and much easier once you start to get to know it. I'm now doing nearly everything in blender. first it was 40/60 in ts favor, as far as use, now it is more like 90/10 towards blender. BTW: there are options for using the LMB for selections etc....it is easy to figure out, if you look for more than ten minutes. |
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