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normals issues
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
normals issues // Roundtable
Post by andras // Jun 3, 2008, 8:05am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Hi Everybody!
Well... I would like to ask that has TS got normals tool like Blenders...Today I downloaded several architectural model on archibase.net. Just I have not been too lucky with normals of downloaded object. I need recalc that. Blender contain "Recalculate outside" and "Recalculate inside" normals tool. So how can I resolv this probleme in TS? How can I see the normals of an object? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 3, 2008, 9:32am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Unfortunately there isn't an automatic tool for solving this sort of problem in TS. Basically you need to select each affected face and use the flip normals tool. |
Post by andras // Jun 3, 2008, 11:15am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Ohhh...I go to feature request :) |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 3, 2008, 11:34am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Ya, the flip all normals in Blender is handy.
Doesn't really make sense to have a "flip one face at a time" utility. Imagine an imported mesh with 100,000 polygons! What a pain in the ....that would be. |
Post by jhowell // Jun 3, 2008, 4:26pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Dont know if this will help but you can flip all normals in the modeler side. See this post ...
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4865
:)
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bvh ik handled rig for truespace 7.5
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=68189#post68189 |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 4, 2008, 4:51am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Very helpfull tool !
the normals that are right then are wrong way and the others
are the right way out.........
whats the use of that ?
I had the same problem and started a thread here....
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5046&highlight=normals
What we need is a tool rthe unifies the normals into 1 direction !;)
Peter |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 4, 2008, 5:48am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I'm not sure what the problem is. In Workspace you can enter point edit mode and select the faces you want to flip - and flip them. I can think of several reasons why one would want to flip some or all face normals. Workspace gives you total and direst control - If you don't want a face or group of face normals to point the way they are just select 'em and flip 'em to the direction you want - couldn't be much easier really. |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 4, 2008, 5:59am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I tried the flip normal tool on my personality and it only worked 50 percent of the other time, as the other half of split personality reverted to the opposite when the abnormals were flipped to normals.
If I flip my own normals an odd number of times with a random generator, am I back where I started or is there a new 'me' standing out in the cornfield? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 4, 2008, 6:01am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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If I´ve got 300 faces to flip wee tiny ones I´ll mail that to Wizard
and he will flip them for me "in workspace "
EASY ISN´T IT ! HAHAHAHA !!!!:D:D:D
Peter |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 4, 2008, 9:29pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well, strictly speaking, if it's easy to select one face then it's easy to select 300 faces - it just takes longer (presumable 300 times longer) ;).
Remember it's also possible to paint select, lasso select and/or rectangle select the faces you DON'T want flipped and simply invert the selection and then flip the faces.
With a complex model one has to create (or import) the geometry and allocate materials on a face by face basis as well as usually allocate UV coordinates on a face by face basis - assigning the direction of a face normal is no harder than that. It's inherent in the act of modelling. |
Post by transient // Jun 4, 2008, 10:10pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I know 6.6 has a fix normals option when importing 3ds files. All of the archibase models I've imported have had normals in the right direction, but I have had other issues such as missing material paths etc.
I'll keep looking into it, maybe importing into Blender first will work better.
Hexagon also has a unify normals tool which works well, if you have access to that app. Most applications have an easy fix for these issues. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 5, 2008, 12:34am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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A tool that can quickly and correctly determine normals direction for closed models would be very helpful for people who import from other apps that don't always get the normals right when exporting. |
Post by Tiles // Jun 5, 2008, 12:43am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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You mean something like this:
http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/
MeshLab is an open source, portable, and extensible system for the processing and editing of unstructured 3D triangular meshes.
The system is aimed to help the processing of the typical not-so-small unstructured models arising in 3D scanning, providing a set of tools for editing, cleaning, healing, inspecting, rendering and converting this kind of meshes. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 5, 2008, 5:49am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I was thinking more along the lines of Tomas writing us a cool new built in tool... but hey, that looks like a pretty cool link you've found there. :) |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 5, 2008, 5:54am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Normals are confusing.
It's odd when you work in a modeling application (even in trueSpace) and don't have one problem with flipped normals.
The moment it is exported or UV'd, then normals tend to get flipped.
Should be an automatic function of all modelers to 'normalize'.
But hey! maybe it's just me... |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 5, 2008, 6:15am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I think the problem arises because some apps have different coordinate systems to describe the direction of face normals. If you have an app that uses Normal = +Z and import that model into a system using Normal = -Z then all the Normals are flipped.
In this both the Model side and the Workspace Normal flipper tools work just fine as they just replace all the + values with - values ot vice versa.
Random flipped faces are usually the result of untidy modelling or messed up Boolean operations - in which case you can just select the relevant faces and flip them. |
Post by Plum // Jun 5, 2008, 7:17am
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Plum
Total Posts: 39
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Hiya.
Can't you guys use the old "cube/boolean/intersect" trick anymore with v7? As long as your mesh is 'solid' (is there a "Solidify" plugin for v7, or is it built in?), just pop up a cube, scale it to encompass the entire model, then boolean-intersect them. The cube's faces act as the 'direction', thusly flipping all faces on your original model 'outward'.
(Hope that makes sense...last version of tS I bought was 4.3). |
Post by Tiles // Jun 5, 2008, 7:24am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Modeler should act like that. Workspace doesn't have boolean yet. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jun 5, 2008, 7:45am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Hiya.
Can't you guys use the old "cube/boolean/intersect" trick anymore with v7? As long as your mesh is 'solid' (is there a "Solidify" plugin for v7, or is it built in?), just pop up a cube, scale it to encompass the entire model, then boolean-intersect them. The cube's faces act as the 'direction', thusly flipping all faces on your original model 'outward'.
(Hope that makes sense...last version of tS I bought was 4.3).
Heard of that trick but could you post a picture or 2 !;)
Thanks
Peter |
Post by Plum // Jun 6, 2008, 7:07am
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Plum
Total Posts: 39
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Heard of that trick but could you post a picture or 2 !;)
Thanks
Peter
Wish I could, but I can't install tS 4.3 on XP-64. :( In a nutshell...you just have to make a cube that completely encompasses your object. Then "Boolean Intersection" (IIRC) the cube and your object. The result *should* be a fully normal-flipped-to-the-outside object.
Oh, one caveat: it will also remove any triangles that are planar to an ajacent one. This is useful to remove un-needed polys (tri's) from objects. In short, it will "clean up" your model as an added bonus...unless you wanted it all tri's, like for a game.
Maybe someone else who has used/done this trick can test it in 7.5 to see if it still works? |
Post by Tiles // Jun 6, 2008, 7:13am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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No need to test, just try in Modeler. That's the old architecture. |
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