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Roman's issues
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Roman's issues // Roundtable
Post by jayr // Jun 9, 2008, 12:24pm
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jayr
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No, we should have a blog soon, I will follow up on that to confirm. While we'll still try to meet the unofficial "every 2 weeks or so", I strongly suspect that it just won't happen at this point in time and just wanted to give everyone advance warning on that, to avoid disappointment.
More information again soon!
Tom
Damn, thought we had something then ;)
i'm looking forward to the next blog, can't wait to see whats in it |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 9, 2008, 11:55pm
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OK, it must take an act of congress to type something I guess. I can post something in about 10 minutes...with video, images, and text.....don't listen to me yet...coffee brewing. |
Post by frootee // Jun 10, 2008, 2:54am
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Dear All,
P.S. Who will develope a pressure generator, hydraulic aggregate or pneumatic aggregate and a way to use the power in a cylinder?
Norppa
do you mean, in truespace? You need to download the scripting docs. You can do it that way. I have to go to work but I can post the link when I get there. You may need to code it yourself; not sure if someone else has done this for you / us already. But, I could be wrong. Search the forums; I recall seeing some discussions related to an engine around here. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 10, 2008, 12:58pm
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nowherebrain
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I guess now a days Roman probably does have to consult with Microsoft about what is and isn't said in the blog???... |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 10, 2008, 1:05pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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I guess now a days Roman probably does have to consult with Microsoft about what is and isn't said in the blog???...
Im pretty sure that the development of Truespace is kept fairly seperate to the development of Microsoft Earth (whatever its called) so I wouldnt think so.
We all need to make sure how aware we are that were lucky there is such interaction between the developers and CEO of Truespace because I doubt there is anywhere near this amount for Maya and 3DMax which to be honest is why I still use Truespace!
Just dont take it for granted! and moan when were lucky enough to get what we get! lol |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 10, 2008, 3:20pm
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We all need to make sure how aware we are that were lucky there is such interaction between the developers and CEO of Truespace because I doubt there is anywhere near this amount for Maya and 3DMax
Well, if I plunked down 10-20K for software (with plug-ins) like 3D Max, I wouldn't be the typical hobbyist or part time 3D modeler, now would I. :)
I don't know when tS7.51 was released, but pretty sure it's coming up on a year or longer. I know when I purchased 7.51 and since then I've gotten about ten updates on other 3D software products I have. |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 10, 2008, 3:47pm
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Well, if I plunked down 10-20K for software (with plug-ins) like 3D Max, I wouldn't be the typical hobbyist or part time 3D modeler, now would I.
What does that mean? lol, plenty of hobbyists use that software and others, you don't necessarily have to pay for it now do you? lol the cost of the software is irrelevent, why because Truespace is cheaper than Maya means that we should get more forum posts from the dev team?
I know when I purchased 7.51 and since then I've gotten about ten updates on other 3D software products I have.
lol wow you have 10 other 3d products? (lol I have 3) I expect they were minor bug fixes etc and not extensive software overhauls |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 10, 2008, 3:50pm
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What does that mean? lol, plenty of hobbyists use that software and others, you don't necessarily have to pay for it now do you? lol the cost of the software is irrelevent, why because Truespace is cheaper than Maya means that we should get more forum posts from the dev team?
lol wow you have 10 other 3d products? (lol I have 3) I expect they were minor bug fixes etc and not extensive software overhauls
No, I have other 3D products that have had 10 updates. Yes, there has been some major updates on the products I own.
I'm not going to repeat myself from other posts, let's just say I'm getting very damn weary waiting on Caligari.
I think it's time to move on and learn new software as i had planned to do so six months ago. I'm wasting my time here. |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 10, 2008, 3:55pm
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Matski007
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I think it's time to move on and learn new software as i had planned to do so six months ago. I'm wasting my time here.
lol and six months before that? jesus christ go already! you seem to fear the worst in everything, why suddenly drop something? I have been away from Truespace for quite some time whilst I learnt Maya but I still keep working on stuff in truespace because it has a decent workflow in some ways more simple, if you are bored then fair enough but dont just throw things away like a spoilt child |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 10, 2008, 4:07pm
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lol and six months before that? jesus christ go already! you seem to fear the worst in everything, why suddenly drop something? I have been away from Truespace for quite some time whilst I learnt Maya but I still keep working on stuff in truespace because it has a decent workflow in some ways more simple, if you are bored then fair enough but dont just throw things away like a spoilt child
I'm hardly a spoiled child. I'm older than most on this forum and don't have forever to do stuff.
I have videos that I paid for, that were made for another version of tS7.0 that are confusing as hell and a nice render engine that has bugs in it that no one conveniently mentions because there is no where we can check, like an organized and readable bug page. The list is too long to mention here.
But hey, thanks for counter-convincing with your lack of support and understanding. This isn't suddenly dropping something, but after tonight, it might be real sudden. |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 10, 2008, 4:21pm
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Matski007
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I'm hardly a spoiled child. I'm older than most on this forum and don't have forever to do stuff.
Oh wise olden Wizard! never too old to be a spoilt child
I have videos that I paid for, that were made for another version of tS7.0 that are confusing as hell and a nice render engine that has bugs in it that no one conveniently mentions because there is no where we can check, like an organized and readable bug page. The list is too long to mention here
Sounds like you maybe didn't bother to raise these issues, because every time I have had a problem I have been given great support, perhaps its your overall attitude that makes things difficult
But hey, thanks for counter-convincing with your lack of support and understanding. This isn't suddenly dropping something, but after tonight, it might be real sudden.
I'm no representative, I don't have to convince you of anything and frankly I care quite little whether you quit truespace tonight, its the fact that you keep coming back and back time and time again to moan some more and then give up again!
I expect you will be back just as soon as truespace releases the update with all its cloth simulation beauty and many other features! |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 10, 2008, 5:17pm
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Oh wise olden Wizard! never too old to be a spoilt child
Sounds like you maybe didn't bother to raise these issues, because every time I have had a problem I have been given great support, perhaps its your overall attitude that makes things difficult
I'm no representative, I don't have to convince you of anything and frankly I care quite little whether you quit truespace tonight, its the fact that you keep coming back and back time and time again to moan some more and then give up again!
I expect you will be back just as soon as truespace releases the update with all its cloth simulation beauty and many other features!
You surely are an expert at pushing people's buttons aren't you? Guess personal attack and character assasination must be your specialities.
Thanks for convincing me not to hang around this place anymore.
Some one else can finish the SMC, I won't be here. cya |
Post by Burnart // Jun 10, 2008, 6:11pm
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I thought this thread was about Roman's issues?.........
MEANWHILE..... Roman's new blog entry indicates that edge operations will be available - hooray! I always get a little excited when I hear about new tools I just wish I'd hear WHEN! |
Post by Steinie // Jun 11, 2008, 1:44am
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Forums are moody lately.
I think nowherebrain got his answer from Roman about edge tools.
I've got to admit the new boolean tools look awesome.
Did you notice that one of the versions is 7.68***? So is the next release 7.7 and not 7.6?
Edit: Splinters is correct, I need glasses! "7.6B***
No mention of bending tools again. Show me how to make a hose without going to Modeler or spending days manually moving edge loops?
Their main focus is on modeling tools and bugs. I would think that should have started on day 1...back in 7.0. Just an observation.
We see all these cool textures in the demos but will they be included? Time will tell.
Here is the biggest question. Is there anyone out there owning a previous version of trueSpace and getting convinced they are going to upgrade?
Notice that realtime modeling looked fantastic but the uv looked like poop. Must be an EASY way to fix it right?...
I haven't seen anything lately that would rile up JamesMc again except lack of support to him from Caligari. (old tutorials etc.) However he keeps threatening to leave but doesn't. Vegas has it 10 to 1 he comes back... |
Post by brotherx // Jun 11, 2008, 2:08am
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I like the lathe tool in modeller. I have done up a submission for the SMC and only went to modeller for that. Now that would be cool in workspace. |
Post by splinters // Jun 11, 2008, 2:14am
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You might need to change your glasses Steinie; I saw no 7.68 only tS7.6 B (followed by a version, highest of which was 16). So that would be tS7.6 Beta16...:D
P.S I will update, simply for the new fixes, features and especially cloth!! |
Post by brotherx // Jun 11, 2008, 2:32am
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I agree splinters with that too. It'll be fun (oops, that word again) to play with the cloth and the morphing too, booleans, edges...wait...it'll all be fun.
:D |
Post by Igor K Handel // Jun 11, 2008, 3:20am
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Igor K Handel
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As a fellow coffin dodger, who is knocking on in years somewhat, when I initially read Matski007's posts I cringed on behalf of all level headed TS users. (and that particularly includes Jamesmc as far as I am concerned)
I guess I had better lump myself in with the let's just say I'm getting very damn weary waiting on Caligari group.
Iv'e been sitting on this fence so long it needs repainted!!
The part of me that is stopping the move to other software is the hope that the longer it takes for 7.6 to arrive, the longer and more extensively it will have been bug tested and checked for sensible real life workflow useage (I hope)
I have videos that I paid for, that were made for another version of tS7.0 that are confusing as hell and a nice render engine that has bugs in it that no one conveniently mentions because there is no where we can check, like an organized and readable bug page.
I'll second that, its a fair comment, and 100% factual.
I take my hat off to Tiles for getting the bug reporting bit between his teeth.
Sounds like you maybe didn't bother to raise these issues
Reality check. Even in the 6 months I have had TS, it is still the same now as it was when purchased. So even if the issues have been raised (and it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find that many many have) until the fixes are in the public domain then I am exactly where I started.... thats the reality. I, Jamesmc and every other user are in.
why suddenly drop something?
So after almost a year this is suddenly dropping? LOL
perhaps its your overall attitude that makes things difficult
LOL After I finished choking at the hypocracy of that comment.... I would aim that one right back at Mr Matski006.5 and then some! That has got to rank right up there as a truly all time peach.
and frankly I care quite little whether you quit
Ever thought of going into one of the caring professions? I think theres a vacancy in the antagonist department. Hmm come to think of it have you ever been hit over the head with a zimmer? lol
Ok enough of this. Everyone has a different threshold of patience, and when it runs out it is only natural that when that point is reached it will be expressed. Better that than just saying nothing and leaving.
Well I had better wrap this up now as my nurse has arrived to take me to the dining room and you've no idea how long it takes to eat steak with only 1 tooth. I'm dreading next week I have got to retake my Zimmer driving test.
All the breast.. oops sorry that nurse had my mind wandering.. hmmm did I ever tell you about the war, and that young......
A fellow Coffin Dodger
IK Handel
Ps I was tempted to include a pic of a button for 006.5 to press, but TS is in the naughtly corner at the minute and I ain't using it :D, so if you want to press my buttons feel free to have a go :rolleyes:
PPS
The latest boolean tools look awesome from the clips. Shame if this damn credit crunch stuffs up my job (an alarmingly close prospect at the minute)and just as the update comes out I can't afford it, yet have loads of free time to use it. More irony. |
Post by Igor K Handel // Jun 11, 2008, 3:27am
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You think your eyesight is bad?
I couldn't even make out the 7 in the version number and I made a point of looking.... sheesh this ageing thing sux
IK |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 11, 2008, 3:32am
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Matski007
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hmmmm, perhaps you may not have been around the past times James has been whining? im sick of it quite frankly, and the way he expresses everything he says it almost seems like he is trying to provoke a negative response as opposed to being objective.
I would agree though that workspace does have its problems, which is why I rarely use it at all because to me it has a distorted workflow, however I still find potential in the Modeler side, being the first 3D app I ever used (ts6.6) I still enjoy using it.
Im sure there will be a lot more happy people when the update comes out.
My advice would be to not drop it if your unhappy, just move on to something else and when the update finally does come, then pick it up again, thats pretty much what I have done, you dont need to show loyalty to software just do what you like, besides you have already paid for it lol |
Post by brotherx // Jun 11, 2008, 3:34am
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You think your eyesight is bad?
I couldn't even make out the 7 in the version number and I made a point of looking.... sheesh this ageing thing sux
IK
Tell me about it...I remember my 35th birthday like it was last year....oh, wait, it was last year :D |
Post by Igor K Handel // Jun 11, 2008, 6:06am
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Igor K Handel
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Hang on a minute....
Taps screen to get Splinter's (Splinters's ? spell check hmm Splintersssss?) attention
How come you are online during school hours? What happened to the education of Britains future lol
Me; I am on enforced holiday due to lack of work, what's your excuse.... Laughing here.
Hmm heres a thought that raises a smile...ok so I can't see the version number on the vid,
But I drive a crane 25floors up lol.
Oh oh
Realisation dawns....
Have I been obliviously squashing builders all over the floors all this time... I thought they were just skittles..... I even scored a strike on my second go this week..oops I wondered why the site was so quiet when I came down on Monday!
35!!! Man yer only just outta nappies / diapers (internationally cosmopolitan translation by babel? lol) hmm Terries? (that'll bring the REAL Brit wrinkleys outta the woodwork) compared to me.
If I could remember 40 I would be a very happy puppy!:D Sheesh these young whippersnappers these days; they're everywhere lol
Matski007.. I can see both sides, but when you reach a certain level of exasperation, it's natural to become more negative. The trick I assume is for Caligari, to run the delicate balancing act of customer satisfaction versus profitability/ viability. IE small patches frequently or bigger version improvements less frequently at the risk of exasperating current paid up users? Not an easy line to tread in my view. And we see the evolving truth of that right here before our very eyes.
My view on temporarily changing to other software is a little at odds with yours. To me it's like, why invest a load of time in learning other software, only to dump it to return to something that for me was hopefully going have been able to perform to my expectations right from the start. I have a suspicion if I moved to other software and got comfortable with it, assuming it DID fulfill my criteria, I am unlikely to come back to TS. That to me is unrealistic.
Hmm lets put it another way.. In order to change to other software, the other software has to first be able to fulfill my criteria, eg in my case animation, rigging, weight painting, character based tools etc, plus all the basic/standard modelling stuff. So lets suppose I found this software, and paid out yet more money to purchase it. Then I have to invest a fair bit of time in learning this new software.. Hmm say at least 1 year for Maya/3Dmax for example, or 6 months for Cinema4d perhaps. Xsi not so sure. Anyway so Iv'e spend all this money and time, am I really going to come back to TS and spend MORE money on another version. I just don't think thats realistic. Luckily for me this is just a hobby, and part of the enjoyment IS the learning, but there is a point at which the exasperation factor can overwhelm the enjoyment factor. That point is different for each user, but I put forward an opinion that perhaps the balance for a not insubstantial number of users needs tweaked a bit.
This is not negative in any way it's just the way I see it. Call it my observation if you like.
Not specific to Jamesmc, it may be annoying if you believe someone to be negative, but look at it as a challenge/ a statement of discontent.
Usually if someone expresses negativity it says two things..
1. I am talking about this.. implying I am prepared to discuss this, therefore I have NOT closed the door completely, or I would have just shut up and gone away.
2 I am, in a roundabout way asking for help/ support/ information. These are all things that any good business or collegue should hopefully address. In both parties best interests.
One of the great things about this forum is that people CAN be open and honest. and people CAN chose to write off or support others who are struggling to keep the faith (so to speak). Sometimes moral support is all that is needed. Sometimes a patch would be better lol. My guess is that the more support shown in forums the more likely a solid user base continues, the more likely a longterm viability, the more likely future improvements etc etc Not saying it's easy, just... well better.
Another observation..
If the expectations of potential software purchasers are better managed then a lot of negativity could never have basis on which to grow. Just a thought..
Heres my example... (Of course I have no way of knowing the potential purchase stats for and against effectively charging for 7.5 as opposed to staying with 6.6 and shovelling out free vids to buy some more time. Had 6.6 already run its mass shelf-life and couldn't sustain enough income any longer?) Is moving on as a company SO dependant on new tools, or a new more modern look. Whats the sales difference between adding new tools, or if forced to compromise, gremlin fixing. Which sells more software? Which will keep more customers, which will gain more users.
Anyway heres my take, though maybe it could never have been an option? Someone somewhere has got the projected stats, so I guess the forum isn't the only place this has been discussed! I would love to be a fly on the wall now the decision has been implimented. Are the projections panning out?
Heres my take on managing expectations
--------------------------
Hey guys 6.6 is alive and well, and still great value! We have even included a bunch of stuff for free (Vid tuts etc) to keep you going whilst we work on transfer over to the new all singing, all dancing Workspace.
As we are SO excited about our upcomming Workspace side, we have included for your perusal (only spelt correctly)AT ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE.,
Yes thats free, for nothing, nada!!!...
a copy of a work in progress version of Workspace for you to tinker with. It's got quite a bit of development still to go, but as a little treat we thought you might just like to have a play with it in advance. A sneak preview if you like.
Even at this early stage of implimentation here at Caligari Castle we are already having a complete blast with some of the powerful tools already implimented in Workspace. Let us know what YOU think and we'll see you on the other side of great innovation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Interestingly special offers for 7.51 DID include a veritable truckload of Vid tuts, at very knockdown prices, but to be fair as Jamesmc said a considerable number are for the model side. So Caligari partially went that route. (special offer on Vray adding to that strategy maybe) However where my approach tried to manage expectations of workspace, for whatever business reason pushing workspace as the principle purchased product is what happened. Ok I will refine that. The model side was perhaps marketed as now of lesser importance than the workspace side. IE I could happily purchase a workspace with good stable useable bones, weighting, skinning ik/fk etc . As a new customer/user that built my expectations too far, and risked potential dissatisfaction. In my opinion to make matters worse, the risk factor has been made even higher, by leaving purchasers in limbo land for so many months that it's only a certainty the discontent will swell. So really I can't see how what is happening was not going to happen.
Whats your take on this. Am I being unfair?
Oh Dear its an epic, lol sorry about that, obviously too much time on my hands, can't get used to this not working lark.
Ik |
Post by splinters // Jun 11, 2008, 6:46am
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I do get a break or two you know...;)
But I certainly don't have enough time to write replies as long as that. Maybe you are used to writing graffiti up your crane.
Still, you prove that a sense of humour is in no way linked to age...and nor should it be.
Keep it positive around here...I wish I had time to post more stuff, I certainly don't have time to complain...or did I just do that?!? |
Post by spyfrog // Jun 11, 2008, 9:59am
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I am not sure if this is a correct thread to comment in but does anyone know if the speed in the new upcoming release is better than in 7.51?
My TS 7.51 feels a bit sluggish in Workspace view. |
Post by splinters // Jun 11, 2008, 11:15am
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I am not sure there is a correct thread to answer that. If I were to say it was (hypothetically) and you then find it to be slower (might be system or project dependent) then you would be disappointed. Plus, only Roman can really say if it is or not; I doubt a tester would be allowed to say, maybe for the same reason as above.
It does look a promising release in today's blog though...:D |
Post by frootee // Jun 11, 2008, 11:18am
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I am not sure if this is a correct thread to comment in but does anyone know if the speed in the new upcoming release is better than in 7.51?
My TS 7.51 feels a bit sluggish in Workspace view.
hey spyfrog.
What are your system specs: operating system, CPU, and video card model / interface type (AGP / PCI Express / Other)? |
Post by Burnart // Jun 11, 2008, 12:24pm
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Forums are moody lately.
I agree. (Relax guys.)
No mention of bending tools again. Show me how to make a hose without going to Modeler or spending days manually moving edge loops?
Bone it then bend. The new system gives very smooth bendy joints. (Not the same as a dedicated bend tool but it does work.) |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 11, 2008, 12:42pm
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Igor K Handel, Your right in everything you say, and I am not fantastically proud of my past postings to James, however I do believe he has been consistantly negative throughout his entire membership on these forums, so much so that people have been forced to block the visibility of his messages in anger.
Regarding other softwares, I do firmly believe Maya to be better than truespace, sorry guys but it is lol, that doesnt mean to say however that truespace is useless to me, I was aware even when I bought it that it may be a dead end as I would be required to learn maya to become any sort of professional in this industry. Truespace attracted me because of its workflow, the fact that I could do everything it seemed by using only the mouse, and the simplicity of things such as the material editor which Maya unfortatly employs a somewhat more complicated method for doing just about everything. I hope someday to utilise the abilities of both programs.
Regarding the future of Truespace however, I can see it becoming a very strong contender against other software, especially as it is incorporating many new and cool features that other software lacks, and retains its overall simplicity.
I think it may have been a good idea to rename the software. I often find when talking to professors and students at university that they have heard of it but believe it to be inferior because they have no knowledge of version 7, keeping the name truespace probably does it no favours, and in releasing it with a new name it may have received more press coverage being considered a bran new competitor on the market. |
Post by Burnart // Jun 11, 2008, 2:07pm
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Regarding other softwares, I do firmly believe Maya to be better than truespace, sorry guys but it is lol, that doesnt mean to say however that truespace is useless to me..
I'm quite prepared to believe that but you forgot to mention what the price differential is these days. ;) Maya's always been way out of my price range. |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 11, 2008, 2:38pm
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Matski007
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I'm quite prepared to believe that but you forgot to mention what the price differential is these days. Maya's always been way out of my price range.
lol and you think I can afford it? lol, I have access to it at the university but I also have my own version acquired via other means, If I was to set up a company and earn revenue then I would endeavour to purchase it.
Also they provide a Free PLE version (Personal Learning Edition) which contains everything the software has, it only adds watermarks to rendered images (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=7639525)
it is identical to version 8.5, and although version 2008 is out it is still practically the same as far as I have seen |
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