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32-bit or 64-bit Vista
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
32-bit or 64-bit Vista // Roundtable
Post by brotherx // Jun 9, 2008, 12:39am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Hey Guys,
I am waiting for the arrival of a nice shiny new quad core processor and wondered if you have any thoughts on whether it is better to go the 32-bit or 64-bit route for Windows.
I'm inclined to go 64-bit as all my hardware has drivers as far as I can tell and I'm getting a new motherboard that will have the drivers hopefully too.
I'm only going to have 2gb of memory for now so right now it makes no difference except for no upgrade path to 64-bit for the future. |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 9, 2008, 3:06am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Its's hard to tell with trueSpace as there are no visuals when you render.
However, in another software I have all 4 cores render and it is lightning quick.
I have Windows Vista 32 bit. I figure the time 64 bit software gets out there and bug free, this machine will be replaced with another one, more ram, faster processors, faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound... |
Post by brotherx // Jun 9, 2008, 4:03am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Yeah, for me, this is it for a while anyway...more memory in future but if I stick with 32-bit I might get away without a re-install of windows...The catch being if I upgrade to/add more memory I will have to probably have to go 64-bit to take advantange.
Ah the dillema. |
Post by frootee // Jun 9, 2008, 4:22am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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well, to add to the dilemna, let's say that you stick with 32 bit. So you buy what you need for now.
Later, it's time to upgrade again. But this time, you have to go 64 bit. This means you have to buy more stuff, than if you had upgraded to 64 bit in the first place.
The downside to this of course is, you end up spending more money.
The upside to this though is, you could possibly end up building a whole new system, so if tsnet would be up for use with Workspace (I cannot remember if it supports workspace currently or not; I doubt it since the SDK is not yet released), you'd have at least 2 systems for rendering.
Just my thoughts off the top of my head.
In a way it's a nice position to be in eh? :) What Do I Want To Buy? Decisions, decisions.....
Froo |
Post by TomG // Jun 9, 2008, 5:29am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Right now unless you plan on having 4Gb or more memory in the near future, there isn't that much visible difference between 32 and 64 bit. 64 bit still is less compatible with some software and drivers, but that grows less over time. Still, it can be an issue.
I have a 64 bit Vista and 32 bit Vista machine, both as capable as each other. I have two pieces of software I think that didnt run on the 64 bit machine. The 32 bit has 3Gb installed (used to have 4Gb but the memory has timing issues and I got it stable and don't have the heart to add the other Gb back in just yet!), and the 64 bit has 4Gb installed.
So it comes down to future proofing (go 64 bit then you're prepared for more memory and 64 bit optimised apps) versus immediate compatibility (some software still doesnt like 64 bit, but not very much).
Note that there is no upgrade path. If you do go 32 bit, you'd need to wipe and reinstall. So be sure whichever you pick you'll be happy with for the next 6 months to a year (which is about how long I think a component needs to last for to be viable - I prefer 2 years as a lifecycle where I can affford it though :) )
HTH!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Jun 9, 2008, 6:37am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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thanks tom for the sound advice. All my hardware has 64 bit drivers - even my old audigy platinum so no problems there. My main software is office XP, paint shop pro, SQL Server, Visual Studio and TrueSpace, odd game but XBox rules there...
Memory will be the only upgrade, or possibly a new video card in a year. I'll probably pop another 4gb in at some point - starting with 2gb as the other 1gb isn't compatible. The processor, well, hopefully will last as long as my current one now 3 years old and still does the job. I went for the new Penryn Core-2 Quad 2.66 so it should do a while - it cost more but it has double the cache so it should have a nice kick to it and the fact the multiplier is 2 - nice and simple.
I made sure it'll do as 32 or 64 and I have both Vista Disks so that isn't a problem - no extra cost except memory and that is so cheap just now.... |
Post by TomG // Jun 9, 2008, 6:54am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Handy having both Vista flavors on one disk! I got mine OEM with the system I built, and it was one flavor only (this is over a year ago) so I am tied in to 32 bit for a while on that machine. I don't feel I am missing much yet though, 64 bit hasn't really hit its stride in offering more than 32 bit (other than the increased memory size per application, and overall increased memory size).
Sounds like you'd be good to go with 64 bit based on the software and hardware, you shouldn't see any incompatibilities. But still, the choice is yours. Im not regretting installing 32 bit yet, even with running both side by side for comparison :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Ambrose // Jun 9, 2008, 8:04am
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Ambrose
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64 bits systems has been out there now for a long time, so if they still don't hold revert back to 32 but for now, try it out and see how it goes.
Either you're up and running and everything will be fine or you'll get problems almost quite away and to the limit that the only thing you want is to reinstall so you do that in a breese because you want to.
A reinstall is not that terrible only have all your data in one directory and then make a backup of that before wiping the system during a reinstall.
Then put data back and install all applications you had, yes it takes a day or two, but it's so clean you enjoy it anyway :p
this by the way will be the fastest system, not 32 versus 64 :D
Then the longer time it runs the worse it goes ;)
Also would not worry so much regarding memory as any system still runs better with more memory, 32 just can't take the real advantage but will still seem better the more it gets.
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by spyfrog // Jun 9, 2008, 10:43am
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I use 64 bit Windows XP and it is a great OS. The only problem is lack of drivers. However, all big players have drivers (linke Nvidia, Creative).
The problem with Windows 64 bit is actually in my opinion a lack of software. Guess how many 64 bit software I have on my computer?
Almost none. IE exists in one 64 bit version but that don't support the usual plugins like Flash...
However, in my opinion you should get more than 2 gb of RAM to your computer. 2Gb is damn near lower limit for Vista. I don't understand why MS even released the 32 bit version of Vista. We should all have been happier if there only was one version of Vista - 64 bit!
The reason for this is simple - Vista needs much ram to be happy. 32 bit software can only use 4gb ram. This is actually a limitation when you have such a ram hungry OS as Vista. Since Vista is so ram hungry, they should have skipped the 32 bit version. That would have forced drivers for the 64 bit version..
You see where I go with this? In one year you will have 4gb of ram in your computer because you think it feels slow. Then a 32 bit system won't go higher. Also, you will probably have maxed out your memory slots.
So I recommend that you go for 4 gb right now and that you buy 2x2gb. You can then probably upgrade your computer to 2x2+2x2gb RAM in the future (and get 8gb). Of course, you will need 64 bit for this to happen.
Since you buy new, all of your hardware should support 64 bit drivers.
So my tip - go for 64 bit and get 4gb of ram from start. |
Post by Breech Block // Jun 9, 2008, 12:40pm
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Breech Block
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Spyfrog's comments on memory have really hit the nail on the head here. I have had Vista (64 bit) installed on my PC for almost a year now. I have 4 gig of RAM, though initially Vista didn't recognise anything over 3 and that caused quite a few problems. So, I ended up having to to remove a module that brought me down to only 2 gigs. Everything worked fine and about six months later an update solved the memory recognition problem. When I finally restored my system to the full 4 gigs of RAM the transformation was amazing. My system is blindingly fast as are my renders and any doubts I had about the whole 64-bit\4 gig set-up where blown out of the water. |
Post by brotherx // Jun 9, 2008, 10:43pm
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Cool. Thanks for all the recommendations.
Memory will have to wait - for now.
Anyway, last night I stripped down my old PC and extracted the motherboard and processor, removing the cooler for the new motherboard/processor. (Btw, if you need a good quiet cooler get an Arctic Cooler Pro 7 - very cost effective)
This morning, and admitedly made myself a little late for work, I fitted the motherboard, processor, memory and video card into the case, connected the cooler and powered up. Took just over 30 minutes to fit it all.
It powered on for like 5 seconds then off....then on a few seconds later...then off...
AAARGH
I really had to leave at that point. it could be any number of things but it's probably the cooler not seated correctly. I hate the LGA coolers - they suck and are so awkward to fit.
Might get a bit of fiddling tonight but I really hate it when this happens.
About 2 years ago I bought a future-proof motherboard that would support core 2 and quad core processors. It was not cheap (around 180 Sterling). DOA. company I bought it from refused to accept it was faulty and charged me for the return and testing. I had to go via my credit card company to get my money back (FYI - overclockers.co.uk - don't use them. A support guy swore at me over the phone and hung up...now that's what I call customer service)
Rant over...let you guys know what happens. If I get it going I reckon 64-bit will be tried at least and see what happens. |
Post by brotherx // Jun 9, 2008, 10:48pm
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Handy having both Vista flavors on one disk! I got mine OEM with the system I built, and it was one flavor only (this is over a year ago) so I am tied in to 32 bit for a while on that machine. I don't feel I am missing much yet though, 64 bit hasn't really hit its stride in offering more than 32 bit (other than the increased memory size per application, and overall increased memory size).
Sounds like you'd be good to go with 64 bit based on the software and hardware, you shouldn't see any incompatibilities. But still, the choice is yours. Im not regretting installing 32 bit yet, even with running both side by side for comparison :)
HTH!
Tom
Hi Tom,
Had to send away for the 64-bit disk. It only took 2 days to come through and cost about 10 euro. if you have a boxed version of Vista Home/Home Premium you get 2 advantages. The 32-bit version with the option to send away for other versions with a standard disk/media replacement fee, which I did, and the fact you can transfer the license to a different machine. It cost a little more but not too bad.
I think ultimate boxed comes with both but it costs too much. |
Post by TigreStripe // Jun 10, 2008, 1:19am
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TigreStripe
Total Posts: 75
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Hi Tom,
Had to send away for the 64-bit disk. It only took 2 days to come through and cost about 10 euro. if you have a boxed version of Vista Home/Home Premium you get 2 advantages. The 32-bit version with the option to send away for other versions with a standard disk/media replacement fee, which I did, and the fact you can transfer the license to a different machine. It cost a little more but not too bad.
I think ultimate boxed comes with both but it costs too much.
Yup, this is the case. But it's handy as you can install 64 bit, don't like it, uninstall and install the 32 bit. A Co-worker of mine woke up one day and decided to move from 32 bit XP to 64 Bit Vista Ultimate (Upgrade pack). He had to replace his printer as there were no 64 bit drivers but he didn't mind, bought a better one for cheaper than he paid for the old. He had a issue with some stuff but a driver download here and a update from MS there and he's off and loving it. Oh yeah, his webcam didn't have 64 bit drivers.
Never buy a webcam hanging off the shelf in a supermarket. |
Post by brotherx // Jun 10, 2008, 1:35am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Never buy a webcam hanging off the shelf in a supermarket.
That is good advice for anything computer in a supermarket...
I got the XBox Live vision as it's an excellent camera and it was supported in XP - doesn't work in Vista - that really sucks, an MS product not working with an MS product.
Oh, does anyone know if Office XP works with Vista 64-bit? |
Post by TigreStripe // Jun 10, 2008, 1:55am
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TigreStripe
Total Posts: 75
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That is good advice for anything computer in a supermarket...
I got the XBox Live vision as it's an excellent camera and it was supported in XP - doesn't work in Vista - that really sucks, an MS product not working with an MS product.
Oh, does anyone know if Office XP works with Vista 64-bit?
Look, I would hate to get this wrong so do have a dig into the MS knowledge base but when my co-worker upgraded to 64 bit his copy of Office 2008? (I think) didn't work and he had to get Office Ultimate. I hadn't heard of that but I use OpenOffice and 32 bit.
But check deeper before you delve into 64 bit.
As for a MS product not working with another MS product. Well... that might have been by design. I have heard that Ultimate is suppose to be able to operate with Xbox in some way but I haven't looked. I have Home Premium 32 on my laptop.
Good luck though. |
Post by brotherx // Jun 10, 2008, 2:07am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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The Home Premium, what I have, also can work with the XBox in the sense that you can stream media from media player or media centre as well... |
Post by TomG // Jun 10, 2008, 2:23am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I got Ultimate, as I wanted both business and home features. Sounds like I can send off for a 64 bit version in that case (the OEM box only came with the one version).
Right now though it's not worth the reinstallation trouble, the other machine which is already on 64 bit really is not showing any advantages to being 64 bit, so I'm going to save the long long time it takes to reinstall :) This is especially a problem when you play any sort of MMORPG, as the updates from the disk version always take about 3 to 5 hours to download, on top of everything else.
None of my software on here is 64 bit, and no idea if some of my music software or games would quit, so going to stick with 32 bit for the time being. I figure in maybe a year or two it will be worth it once more software has gone 64 bit and is performing better, then the 32 bit OS will be losing out.
Good luck with fixing the boot up problem, let us know how it goes! Agreed on the LGA coolers, building my machine from nothing upward was fine except for fitting the cooler. It even managed to work loose one time when I was fitting memory later on :(
Anyway, let us know how it goes! That's a new one for being late for work btw, heard of the car breaking down, but "my PC broke down" may be valid these days!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Jun 10, 2008, 2:36am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Luckily I'm in a position to not have to explain myself as I'm reasonably senior and as long as I ain't too late but yeah...my computer broke is not a good one. Also, just finishing a level in Grand Theft Auto IV or I couldn't find a save point are not good either...I've been guilty of those. :D |
Post by TomG // Jun 10, 2008, 5:13am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Tsk tsk! ;) We won't tell!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Jun 10, 2008, 7:40am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Success.!!!
I never seated one of the dimms correctly in my haste and noticed it when I was just away to remove the cooler. A slight nudge in the socket and it powerd up. Now to get the disks connected. Unfortunately, and not so really, off to the cinema to see indiana jones then to the local video store to buy lego indiana jones :D |
Post by jamesmc // Jun 10, 2008, 8:02am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Too bad Windows is lagging behind Apple and their monsterous 8 core 64 bit machines. |
Post by TomG // Jun 10, 2008, 9:58am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Let me know if Lego Indie is good, we have the Lego Star Wars one which was a lot of fun. Reviews seem to point to the Indie one being as good, but I wonder if it's too much "more of the same" or if it is different enough to get.
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Jun 10, 2008, 11:19am
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splinters
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Just been playing Lego Indie on my PSP Tom. So far so good; follows the movies like the Star Wars version does but seems to lack that 'magic' that they had.
Still, if you love Indiana Jones (and Lego) like me, it's hard not to like it...:D |
Post by TomG // Jun 10, 2008, 11:23am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I found the second Star Wars lego game to be the funnier, the cut scenes there were quite hilarious (Darth Vader revealing himself as Luke's father for example is a classic!). The first didn't seem quite so funny (though I played it after the second). Sounds like this one may not be quite so good either - I mean good, but like you say, doesnt have that "special magic".
I may rent it sometime (for the 360, Im an achievements junkie) and see!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Jun 10, 2008, 11:41am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Too bad Windows is lagging behind Apple and their monsterous 8 core 64 bit machines.
Actually, we have a monsterous 8-core PC running vista 64 at the office with 8Gb of ram - disks slow it down.
I've love to try truespace on it but it's reserved for engineering work...sad. |
Post by brotherx // Jun 10, 2008, 11:42am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I found the second Star Wars lego game to be the funnier, the cut scenes there were quite hilarious (Darth Vader revealing himself as Luke's father for example is a classic!). The first didn't seem quite so funny (though I played it after the second). Sounds like this one may not be quite so good either - I mean good, but like you say, doesnt have that "special magic".
I may rent it sometime (for the 360, Im an achievements junkie) and see!
I bought the second version of LSW...was really good and the achievements are better. loads of multiplayer as well...
Never got indie. I can get it for about 20 euro cheaper if I mail order it.
Decided to go 64 bit. Installing now - had to do a windows reinstall so I figured what the hey. Probably a disaster. My scanner won't work or something which would be a minor disaster. |
Post by Mitch // Jun 10, 2008, 5:52pm
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"Decided to go 64 bit." Good move.
The benefits of 64-bit Vista Ultimate is, as Tom pointed out, the access to 4 gigs of ram and higher. For high powered programs like TrueSpace this can help.
TrueSpace works great on Vista Ultimate 64-bit. Of the nearly fifty programs I have only one did not work with Vista. |
Post by brotherx // Jun 11, 2008, 2:14am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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The benefits of 64-bit Vista Ultimate is, as Tom pointed out, the access to 4 gigs of ram and higher. For high powered programs like TrueSpace this can help.
TrueSpace works great on Vista Ultimate 64-bit. Of the nearly fifty programs I have only one did not work with Vista.
I have home premium which, besides the web reports for SQL Server not working does everything I need, and I only have 2Gb RAM as the other 1Gb I have is 533 which isn't supported. Will pick up another 4 later in the year I reckon....
Anyway, system is mostly up. Just needing some drivers and software installed and I'll be set. Should get that tonight and need to get it hooked up to the network for internet connectivity. Then a cleanout of old files and I'll be done. I've migrated my email so that's a start at least. |
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