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Polygon question for a Truespace modeler. Thanks.
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Polygon question for a Truespace modeler. Thanks. // Roundtable
Post by jhowell // Jul 4, 2008, 6:54pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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http://www.4webs.biz/truespacestuff/july48ducksanimated.gif
Hi, I am more of an animator than a modeler. I need to elongate a model. See my image below and animation above. Can not smooth out the stretched polygons so that the character does not show imperfections in the belly area where it was stretched. I tried subdivide, subdivide smooth faces, and add ss on the stretched area. Even tried to add poly loops. As you can see from my animation that the character still shows polygon imperfections in the belly area. Any suggestions? Thanks much :) |
Post by JimB // Jul 4, 2008, 7:54pm
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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The only way I can think of to maybe acheive what you're looking for is to delete the diagonal edges (the ones above the green selection) before stretching,that way you could add another set of horizontal edges or two.
Jim |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 5, 2008, 2:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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You can use the polydraw tool to draw new loops manually around the model. Then re-triangulate it. After that click the smooth normals tool. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 3:34am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Is the model made up of triangles, or are they just set to visible? Triangles are an issue most times. Send me some orthographic images front, side, and anywhere there may be a special deformation(if the model is not completely bi-lateral). I will see what I can do.
support@scatteredpixel.com |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 4:29am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I may be doing something wrong, I can get it into a lib. but I cannot get it into the workspace. I've tried to drag, double click all that stuff, but it's just not there. |
Post by jhowell // Jul 5, 2008, 4:38am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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hmmmm .. here it is as a cob file. You can pull that in to the model side.
I may be doing something wrong, I can get it into a lib. but I cannot get it into the workspace. I've tried to drag, double click all that stuff, but it's just not there. |
Post by jhowell // Jul 5, 2008, 4:49am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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I figured it out. It is in your workspace you just have to click on show product attributes and turn up opacity.
I may be doing something wrong, I can get it into a lib. but I cannot get it into the workspace. I've tried to drag, double click all that stuff, but it's just not there. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 4:53am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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OK, I got it. I'm gonna clean this up for you....need a UV and texture too. Give me a day and a half. What kind of time frame do you have for needing it? |
Post by jhowell // Jul 5, 2008, 5:01am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hi nowherebrain. Thanks for your help but I just needed to know the solution for further work. This is not a project just a character I quickly used to show an example of my question. I sometimes need to stretch finished characters to fit in a rig rather than the normal fitting rig in character. Maybe the first reply to this thread about deleting diagonal edges before I do the stretch is the answer. I will give that a try. :)
OK, I got it. I'm gonna clean this up for you....need a UV and texture too. Give me a day and a half. What kind of time frame do you have for needing it? |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 5:09am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Well, there are many problems. Please take into account that I want to help, not point fingers...
1) too high a poly count for such a simple model.
2) triangles are a necessary evil, but use sparingly.
3) the model is non symmetric, but has no special features to it that would lend itself to not be.
I will mess with it anyway, with your permission of course. It is nearly clean BTW...triangles are all but gone and I am finishing up the symetry.
Next I will reduce the poly count. |
Post by jhowell // Jul 5, 2008, 5:19am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Wow, you are the modelling expert. You can do whatever you want with model as this is a learning experience for all of us. :banana:
http://4webs.biz/truespacestuff/june12redguywalking.gif
Well, there are many problems. Please take into account that I want to help, not point fingers...
1) too high a poly count for such a simple model.
2) triangles are a necessary evil, but use sparingly.
3) the model is non symmetric, but has no special features to it that would lend itself to not be.
I will mess with it anyway, with your permission of course. It is nearly clean BTW...triangles are all but gone and I am finishing up the symetry.
Next I will reduce the poly count. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 5:24am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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So far just cleaned. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 8:00am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Here you go. Let me know if you have any issues. |
Post by jhowell // Jul 5, 2008, 10:00am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Wow nowherebrain you should work for a big studio (or maybe you do). Anyway, all the polygons are so perfect. Very easy to stretch and weight paint. No ugly triangles. Here is anim of the model you just revised, I did not weight paint or anything yet. Please tell us briefly any tips that you did. Also, since I have many COMPLETED models is there any quick way to stretch torsos and limbs etc and be able to retain smoothness around the stretched area and NOT have to redo everything? Thank you for your help.:banana:
Please wait for this quick animated gif to load ...
http://4webs.biz/truespacestuff/july5duckredone.gif
p.s. 900 frames real time rendered 3 minutes
bloom slightly on
supersampling on
water background green screened in Sony Vegas |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 10:30am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Glad to help. I have no schooling and no, I don't work for a studio...lol. |
Post by TomG // Jul 7, 2008, 2:48am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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You can use the Model side to detriangulate, using the "Boolean subtract a non-touching obejct with delete edges checked" (search forums, this one covered several times before so not rewriting in detail).
Triangles are not good for working with.
For smoothing, adding edge loops should be all that's needed, allowing you to add in more detail in the stretched area.
SDS or Smooth Quad Divide are to be avoided where possible, they really work best applied to whole models rather than just parts of a model as in this case. The edge loops should add all the detail you need.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by jhowell // Jul 7, 2008, 4:59am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Thanks so much Tom! I though it may have to do with poly looping but now that I know about ..."Boolean subtract a non-touching object with delete edges checked" on the model side... I know that I now can get the poly looping done on those stretched triangle areas. :banana:
You can use the Model side to detriangulate, using the "Boolean subtract a non-touching obejct with delete edges checked" (search forums, this one covered several times before so not rewriting in detail).
Triangles are not good for working with.
For smoothing, adding edge loops should be all that's needed, allowing you to add in more detail in the stretched area.
SDS or Smooth Quad Divide are to be avoided where possible, they really work best applied to whole models rather than just parts of a model as in this case. The edge loops should add all the detail you need.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by jhowell // Jul 7, 2008, 5:58am
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Well Toms suggestion sure worked like a charm. Very easy and fast. See explaination below. Since I have a lot models this is a "quick fix" for when I want to do fast stretching and still retain smoothness in the stretched area. Thanks for all your help! Great forum. :banana: |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 7, 2008, 1:15pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Avoid the current loop tool. It gets confused easily. The abdomen of that mesh will not confuse it. BTW: there were more issues with the mesh than just triangles, and don't use boolean to get rid of triangles...it can lead to more work later. Bool looks for a flatness limit, anything under that limit gets turned into a face(N-gon) virtual death to animation....am I defending myself??? Did I take offense??? Did I leave the iron on??? Do I have low blood sugar? |
Post by jhowell // Jul 7, 2008, 1:44pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hi nowherebrain. You are probably right. In my circumstance I just need a "QUICK FIX" to do a bunch of completed models sitting around that I want to stretch quickly then rig and animate. So far the using the "Boolean subtract a non-touching object with delete edges checked" has just worked on about 10 models I just did. And so far they are animating with minimal triangle problems nicely. Proper way is to do as you mention from the start. Which when I get back in to modeling again I will do (modeling is so time consuming yet so rewarding). :banana:
Avoid the current loop tool. It gets confused easily. The abdomen of that mesh will not confuse it. BTW: there were more issues with the mesh than just triangles, and don't use boolean to get rid of triangles...it can lead to more work later. Bool looks for a flatness limit, anything under that limit gets turned into a face(N-gon) virtual death to animation....am I defending myself??? Did I take offense??? Did I leave the iron on??? Do I have low blood sugar?
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