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Truespace 7.6 price?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Truespace 7.6 price? // Roundtable
Post by tamtam // Jul 9, 2008, 7:29pm
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tamtam
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I saw some Truespace 7.6 videos from someone else's post, and it looks so awsome! :banana:I was thinking of buying 3ds Max 2009, but the videos of Truespace 7.6 have really made me think, "Wow, Truespace has the same features of lots of the professional software! It's really professional looking, and I want to get my hands on it now, but I have to wait."
I just need to know the following about Truespace 7.6:
1. What will the price be for users of 7.5/7.51? Free upgrade?
2. What will the educational price be?
Also, is TS 7.5 already being used by big movie studios/game companies (Just like Maya, and 3ds Max)? |
Post by Burnart // Jul 9, 2008, 8:41pm
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Burnart
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I just need to know the following about Truespace 7.6:
1. What will the price be for users of 7.5/7.51? Free upgrade?
2. What will the educational price be?
Pricing and release not announced yet.
Also, is TS 7.5 already being used by big movie studios/game companies (Just like Maya, and 3ds Max)?
Happy to be proven wrong but I'm pretty certain the answer is no (although individuals within studio organisations may use it) |
Post by kena // Jul 9, 2008, 9:13pm
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kena
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Many people use Gamespace and Truespace to create their own content for games though. |
Post by splinters // Jul 9, 2008, 11:13pm
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splinters
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From your post TamTam, it sounds like you are looking for an industry standard package (maybe one that can be learnt to get you into the 3D industry?) In which case tS is probably not for you.
It is a great program but not one that is used extensively for major production work. Try to find a movie, TV show or even commercial that references it.
It's strengths lie elsewhere I believe...:o |
Post by TomG // Jul 10, 2008, 1:22am
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TomG
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For movie and tv show, you could look at Luis Saavedra's work. He won a contest that got him funding to turn his pilot episode into a TV show, and has been touring animation conferences around the world with his work.
So it can indeed make such work, just people choose not to :)
There are also many reasons why tools are "industry standards" but usually those are more complex than just being the best tool for the job. There was a real good blog about that I posted a link to some time back, about why people think they should get the "industry standard" and why the reasonsing is usually flawed :)
You can consider that tS7.5 has come along only in the last year or two, so its not going to make a dint in established workflows in large organisations that are slow to adapt to change. Which is fine with us, but at the same time, means you shouldn't rule it out for making games or movies or more.
Unfortunately I can't give you the pricing just yet, as we wait until release is absolutely imminent before discussing those details.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 10, 2008, 1:55am
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W!ZARD
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I suggest that it's important to remember that 'industry level' decisions are more likely to be dictated by accounting issues than the artistic abilities of software. I've seen plenty of children's TV shows and also rock/pop music videos that are easily within trueSpace's capabilities.
But.... (there's always a swag of buts...:D) suppose you want to set up a professional 3d animation studio? Chances are you will require assistance, grants, loans, financing, business plans, mentors etc etc which will require costings and projections based on real world practices and figures. Which means referring to existing 'industry standards'. You will get that business assistance far more easily by using tools with an existing record of widespread success within the industry you are looking at. Investors will try to protect their investment as much as possible by using tried and true methods - trueSpace's latest version hasn't been around long enough to promote investor confidence.
This leaves you with several options - for example you can try to break into the competitive market by following established business practices - in which case as Splinters points out you may be better off using a well known industry standard application.
On the other hand.... well who can forget that annoying crazy frog character which took the internet by storm and launched an entire new brand overnight? I've seen the original animation that started the whole thing and in the right hands could have just as easily been made with trueSpace as any other application.
There is no clear cut answer - much depends on how you see your own personal pathway into the rapidly growing 3d world and your choice of pathway will ultimately have a greater impact of your choice of suitable equipment for the journey than anything else. You don't need an ice ax at the beach anymore than you need a surfboard in the mountains so figure out where you want to end up, which route you want to use to reach that place and make your selection of tools based on the individual requirements of that chosen route - and remember that no plan of attack survives first contact with the enemy.;)
HTH |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 10, 2008, 2:58am
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Jack Edwards
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I agree more with Splinters. I think it's unrealistic to market TrueSpace as a tool comparable with an industry standard tool that is in current use by movie studios and has had years to build a mature feature set for use in that industry. Besides being unproven, there are technical limitations that in my mind make TrueSpace less than ideal for that kind of work. I can name two off the top of my head: No good particle system and the ~2 million polygon limit.
On the other hand, for things like modeling game content, trueSpace is a very strong application (overkill really lol). And it's not too shabby for doing illustration and design work either.
What makes TrueSpace a good value is that it's an affordable "all-in-one" type program that is easy to learn. So if you're more of an independent type on a budget still learning 3D, then TrueSpace is a solid choice. But if you're looking to make it big in the industry or looking for work at an established studio then 3DSMax, XSI, or Maya would be a better choice.
Keep in mind that the price you see for those softwares ($3500 for Max) is just the price of entry. Every version upgrade will cost another ~$1000. And the plugins you need to get the job done aren't cheap either and will probably end up costing more than the cost of the app. VRay for Max alone is $1000.
So in the end it depends on your goals and more importantly your budget. ;) |
Post by Nez // Jul 10, 2008, 4:25am
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Nez
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Jack - out of curiosity, when it comes to the very poly-heavy stuff, what is a better strategy for renders (stills) if tS struggles?
In fairness, I'm still on tS 5.1 as you know, but do tend to rack up the polys on my scenes. I'd consider modeling in tS in sections and export elsewhere if I could get good rendering speed and quality without too much overall slowing down, but can't afford high-end software. Are there any good options for dealing with this sort of thing at the lower end of the market - e.g. how does the oft-mentioned Kerky fair against tS for high-poly count?
Sorry if I'm de-railing... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 10, 2008, 5:53am
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Jack Edwards
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I haven't tried any high poly scenes with Kerkythea yet, but that would likely be the way to go. You could model each of the objects separately then arrange them in Kerkythea's scene editor.
Also keep in mind that the max polygon limit is related to memory use. When TS goes 64bit that problem will go away (as long as your gfx card can push that many polys). |
Post by Nez // Jul 10, 2008, 6:25am
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Nez
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Cheers Jack
I'm sure with my home pcs, the limitation is more likely to be the PC (they're only P3s with modest RAM and GPUs and Win98) but my work PC - a dual Xeon with Quadro FX graphics still struggles a bit with moderate scenes (like the fan I did for the SMC some time back) which I find harder to understand.
I might have to try out Kerky as with tS5 my options for higher-end rendering is a bit more limited - no VRay, HDRI etc; I'd like to try Dribble but all that effort with 3Delight looks a bit of a pain and I'm skint... Even if I can't go faster, would be interesting to try out the extra rendering features.
I'm not likley to be going 64bit anytime soon - with TS or Windows.... am hoping to get a new home pc but will try to get XP rather than Vista, but it will be a mid-level PC rather than hi-spec - any particular processor/GPU recommendations, given I'm hoping to stick with XP? Might be better to PM rather than derail the thread further! |
Post by brotherx // Jul 10, 2008, 6:27am
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brotherx
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Nez, I have a P4-3.4, motherboard and 1gb of ram lying around. interested?
just needs a pci-e video card. has built in wireless. |
Post by JimB // Jul 10, 2008, 6:52am
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JimB
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Nez, I have a P4-3.4, motherboard and 1gb of ram lying around. interested?
just needs a pci-e video card. has built in wireless.
If Nez is'nt interested I might be I have a computer where the motherboard capacitors have leaked and theres too many to economically replace.The bad compacitor seems to be quite widespread.
http://www.badcaps.net/
Jim |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 10, 2008, 6:57am
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jamesmc
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If Nez is'nt interested I might be I have a computer where the motherboard capacitors have leaked and theres too many to economically replace.The bad compacitor seems to be quite widespread.
http://www.badcaps.net/
Jim
Must be a common thing these days. My old motherboard was like that - capacitors popping out.
I too have an extra PCI-E card laying about. 7950 - 512mb. |
Post by brotherx // Jul 10, 2008, 7:49am
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brotherx
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sure. no worries. Wait til I hear from nez.
Postage will be steep from Ireland but not stupid... |
Post by JimB // Jul 10, 2008, 7:53am
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JimB
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sure. no worries. Wait til I hear from nez.
Postage will be steep from Ireland but not stupid...
Ok brotherx will do,I'm in the U.K btw
Jim |
Post by prodigy // Jul 10, 2008, 7:57am
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Who sais we can't make a movie with truespace?? or a tv comercial??
Sorry guys.. but that's totally wrong from my point of view.
We can create what ever we want.. with more or less work but we can for sure..
The question must be.. Who from us working on a tv show or creating commercials?? that's the true question..
How many people works for architects?? in truespace community we are about 5 mabye more maybe less. but if we are not in this community what?? you can tell truespace doesn't fit for achitectual viz??
Quality?? for sure.. all depends on the hands, detail from the artist.. but im sure we can create anything and with Holywood quality.. :cool:
Yeap.. I love truespace :D |
Post by JimB // Jul 10, 2008, 8:03am
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JimB
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all depends on the hands, detail from the artist.. but im sure we can create anything and with Holywood quality
This is very true.
Jim |
Post by brotherx // Jul 10, 2008, 8:21am
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brotherx
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why don't we all team up and do a commercial for truespace using truespace...what better a way than to promote it? |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 10, 2008, 8:47am
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I think thats a cool idea. I actually had an idea to do a short movie project where we can all pitch in our skills and make something and even use realtime renderer for output. Blender and animation master have community projects, it would be cool if we could get something together too. I mentioned it on the beta forums before as something to do when 7.6 is released. No better commercial than a popular short movie I think. And with realtime render we can focus on the cool stuff and not have to render for months to get a finished product. But if people are interested I think it would be cool! |
Post by splinters // Jul 10, 2008, 9:15am
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splinters
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Now I never said you couldn't do a TV show, movie or commercial with tS...did I?
Ever looked at the requirements for a job in 3D, the one area where they are flexible is artistic ability. They nearly always specify knowledge in one of the major apps but occasionally (very rarely) they are looking for artistic ability more than app knowledge. I stand behind what I said and so do a lot of Universities who do not have tS on their software list.
Remember, I am talking about what it is used for commercially, not what it is capable of. I look a the list of software used when I watch making of features, I see images in 3D World each month and it has been a long time since tS was mentioned.
To advise a student of 3D to invest in tS as the main app the help them break into the world of 3D is a bad move.
As an introduction into 3D it is excellent, but as a tool to earn your living with in the cut throat world of 3D....well......I'm with Jack.
P.S I love tS...it does what I want and I don't need to break into the industry...just make pretty pictures. |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 10, 2008, 9:44am
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3dfrog
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Yeah, if you want to break into a studio job the hard fact is learn maya or max. I do not want to work in a studio so I use what I want. I would like to make my main income just from freelancing and stuff from home so why would I need something that costs 3500 dollars to do it? Some studios will hire you if you are a really good animator regardless of app you use I am told, but that's if you just wanna animate. I know many guys that started with animation master actually and ended up working for big studios. I also know some guys that make a decent living using other software besides maya and max but they are independent contractors. I know a guy at bluesky and he said it doesn't matter what animation package you learn on, its if you can animate and they will hire you if you're up to snuff. But I would imagine if the job is between two animators of the same caliber and one uses maya and the other uses something else the maya animator will get it. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 10, 2008, 10:10am
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Jack - out of curiosity, when it comes to the very poly-heavy stuff, what is a better strategy for renders (stills) if tS struggles?
In fairness, I'm still on tS 5.1 as you know, but do tend to rack up the polys on my scenes. I'd consider modeling in tS in sections and export elsewhere if I could get good rendering speed and quality without too much overall slowing down, but can't afford high-end software. Are there any good options for dealing with this sort of thing at the lower end of the market - e.g. how does the oft-mentioned Kerky fair against tS for high-poly count?
Sorry if I'm de-railing...
Hi Nez !
Thats what I use Kerky for !
The problem with the normal render engines is that they load the whole scene
for the calculation and if thats to big it wont render at all !
With path tracing progressive or MLT it takes much longer to render but at least it renders ! 5- 6 million polys are no problem at all !
What I would suggest you to look at is to import the objects you have
from Truespace and load them into the free Sketchup via 3ds and use
the component system in Sketchup for your objects !
Thats how my workflow works ! The exporter from Sketchup supports
instancing and so does Kerky too ! You can crank the poly count that way into extremes !
Look at my cityscape wip and the city render I am going to post in 2 or 3 days from now with hundreds of modeled windows !
@ Truespace : I have stopped looking at industry standard and use what
I found out that gets the work done as easily as possible ON MY LIMITED
SYSTEM !I am happy I dont have to use any of the hard to use software
like Solidworks ... Autocad ... Revit .. Catia or any of the other !
For modeling I love to use Truespace -Moi 3d - Wings -Silo-Hexagon
All not realy industry standard !
But I DO NOT CARE LESS !;)
Peter |
Post by splinters // Jul 10, 2008, 10:15am
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splinters
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I am sure we would all agree Peter, but the point picked up on was about industry standards..and tS is not an industry standard package.
For the rest of us it works just fine...:D |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 10, 2008, 10:24am
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RAYMAN
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I am sure we would all agree Peter, but the point picked up on was about industry standards..and tS is not an industry standard package.
For the rest of us it works just fine...:D
Truespace isnt ! Thats what I indicated ....
but Catia .....Solidworks...... Revit and Alias studio for design and
products and all the other known like Maya and Max are too for film !
They are just not that pleasant to use not to say that they can be akward
to use !
Price is not a real problem in all those ranges because the cost of everything else you need for a professional studio is much higher then the software !
Those few hundred for an ADDITIONAL Truespace should not break your
budget !
Peter |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 10, 2008, 11:09am
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3dfrog
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Yes I forgot ease of use. Truespace and the other apps I use have good workflow for one person working. Maya you need a phd for each aspect of it :) Max isn't so hard to use, I have done some work in it in the past but I have not been asked to do any work in it in a long time and I do not choose to use it for my own work, although it is not terribly difficult like maya, I do not find it joyful to work in for some reason, guess the workflow, and I never liked modeling in max.
Edit: Also just a side note, I have asked many people for advice on the 3d business over the years and I always get different answers. What might be good to do is find studios you want to work for and find out about their philosophy and their software and just worry about that. If you try to listen to everyone it will drive you mad. |
Post by Burnart // Jul 10, 2008, 12:45pm
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Burnart
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When I was a teacher I use to always advise students applying for courses and jobs to present the best portfolio possible at interview. One that included finished product as well as "working out", sketches and process thinking. Ultimately if your skills are good enough a person can learn new software. Show the full diversity of your skill base with emphasis on your strengths whatever your using.
If you are an independent that from time to time meshes with others on projects as long as tS fits the modelling, illustration or animation pipeline then by all means use it. Shouldn't be a problem.
As for which is the easiest to use if we are honest they ALL have their own quirky faults whether its Maya, Max or tS!
As a hobbiest tS is a good choice for me because it is a diverse program. The rest of my tool set is software picked up cheap or free. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 10, 2008, 3:56pm
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You may find i hard o believe, or not, but a lot(mostly smaller ones) of studio's are also starting to incorporate blender. Also to note, if you get into a studio, many could care less what kit you are using for modeling. when you get to texture, animation, and composite time is when you need to be on the same page. |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 10, 2008, 4:19pm
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I just hope Caligari doesn't make us use bio-diesel. I don't want other 3D users pointing and laughing at me for smelling like a deep fat fryer. :cool: |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 10, 2008, 4:21pm
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nowherebrain
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thanks for the levity, I can use it;) |
Post by tamtam // Jul 10, 2008, 7:12pm
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tamtam
Total Posts: 213
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Wow, thanks for the 23 replies everyone! And I think I just posted this topic last night!:D I agree with those of you who said that Truespace can be used for commercials, TV, and game art. I'm gonna post a new post and maybe a poll too, about how we should make this Truespace commercial. :)
By the way, I know, and am a relative of someone who works for Disney/Pixar (Disney and Pixar are now merging into one company). Her name is Cara Paul, and i've never met her before, because she lives too far from my family. Check out her demo reel at http://carapaul.com/demoreel/index.html
Gosh, i'm only a teen, and I don't have a summer job (yet), so I don't think I will get 3ds Max 2009 (yet). But then again, there are student software stores online.
Edit: Make that 28 replies! (And over 700 views in one day/night!) |
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