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Truespace 7.6 price?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
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Truespace 7.6 price? // Roundtable
Post by Nez // Jul 10, 2008, 11:01pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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sure. no worries. Wait til I hear from nez.
Postage will be steep from Ireland but not stupid...
Very kind of you to think of me, but I don't have the confidence to self build! I've got a small local system builder I can take advantage of as I know I can get excellent support and pretty much dictate what I get, but not with inherited components as I wouldn't get the guarantee and hence longer term support. But I appreciate the thought - but at least JimB may be able to put them to good use.
Cheers, N. |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 2:44am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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"To advise a student of 3D to invest in tS as the main app the help them break into the world of 3D is a bad move."
I disagree. I think if you want to watch your budget and learn 3D then it is a good move. Once you have learned the basics of 3D, which are the same in any package, you can either get picked up by a studio based on your talent alone (it takes years to learn the principles of 3D, but only a few weeks to learn some icons and tool locations), or you can decide it is worth the huge investment in cost of another more expensive app, rack up those few weeks of teaching yourself the equivalent tools (few weeks full time I mean), and presto, you are ready to apply to the studios.
Besides there may well be many more ways to make money with tS soon, so don't go discounting it by looking backward, but instead look forward :) I already have four people working on three projects (2 people on one project, then one person each on another 2 projects) that would never have happened a year ago. Two of those projects are already commercial. The other may lead to some good commercial work. While I can't discuss those projects, I think people should know that paid work with tS is definitely on the rise!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by butterpaw // Jul 11, 2008, 3:01am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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Although my indie game is not "the commercial world" ... yet.... I must say that 7 of our modelers/animators (and another expected to join shortly) are using trueSpace. (Of course, we are hoping for the FBX format in 7.6 ... *I've got my fingers, toes and eyes crossed for that!) ^_^
*hmm perhaps that would account for some strangeness in my modeling style :p |
Post by transient // Jul 11, 2008, 3:49am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I'm not going to suggest what other people should do, but I went from being a max diehard to trying other applications like truespace, and I'm in no hurry to go back - regardless of whether I had access to it for free.
I do miss certain things, but I don't really feel disadvantaged using poor-man's tools, and in some instances I feel exactly the opposite. As with Butterpaw's problem, I think compatibility is the great weakness of non-autodesk programs. |
Post by splinters // Jul 11, 2008, 5:21am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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"To advise a student of 3D to invest in tS as the main app the help them break into the world of 3D is a bad move."
I disagree. I think if you want to watch your budget and learn 3D then it is a good move. Once you have learned the basics of 3D, which are the same in any package, you can either get picked up by a studio based on your talent alone (it takes years to learn the principles of 3D, but only a few weeks to learn some icons and tool locations), or you can decide it is worth the huge investment in cost of another more expensive app, rack up those few weeks of teaching yourself the equivalent tools (few weeks full time I mean), and presto, you are ready to apply to the studios.
Besides there may well be many more ways to make money with tS soon, so don't go discounting it by looking backward, but instead look forward :) I already have four people working on three projects (2 people on one project, then one person each on another 2 projects) that would never have happened a year ago. Two of those projects are already commercial. The other may lead to some good commercial work. While I can't discuss those projects, I think people should know that paid work with tS is definitely on the rise!
HTH!
Tom
I know all this Tom, I make money with tS myself...;)
but I stand by what I said about advising the use of tS as a tool to get you ready for the 3D world. It takes more than a few weeks to learn a new program; it is not just icons and locations but a whole different workflow in many cases. And then there is the speed and familiarity issue!
I am an advocate of tS, have been for many years, but I am referring to the industry standards and it would be foolish for me to tell a student of mine who wanted to be a 3D artist for film or VFX etc. to get tS as the app to learn. There are learning versions of all the big apps and they are completely free.
tS has it's strengths but it is not a major app for that industry. It has it's strengths and I have already stated that. We will simply have to agree to disagree on this one...;)
I already said tS does what I need and I am looking forward to expanding my world of books into real time worlds when the time is right. This is not tS bashing, I am simply looking at the viabilit of investing time and money into learning tS rather than Max, Maya, LW etc. |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 5:59am
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TomG
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"I know all this Tom, I make money with tS myself..."
Actually no, this stuff you don't know :) There are more opportunities opening up for tS in many directions now, and that is going to continue to grow. Like I say, look forward and not back. EDIT PS - better add a PS to say that no, its not movies. But it is new work in interesting new directions. However don't get to wondering if you are seeing a major tS motion picture coming out in the next year hehe. END EDIT
I wish I could find that great post about "industry standard tools" and how people get obsessed by thinking they need to use them - it was in relation to getting into the games industry.
The truth was that people should assess the tool based on their needs, and not on the needs of a multi-million dollar studio, since clearly their needs and priority would be different.
Now, if you need to impress Studio A who use one and only one piece of software, then you may want to factor that into your decision. If you don't know who you want to impress, and want to make money from what you do already (which you cant with an educational version), then tS is not such a bad choice.
I think a good demo reel will get you a job, no matter what it is made with. After all you arent going to tell them what it is made with - they see it first, get impressed, then invite you to talk, and then find out your tools :)
So I am just not as dismissive as tS as a good recommendation for someone wanting to get into the industry. Really each person should assess their own needs, and only factor in "industry standards" if they know its make or break for a specific company that they must get a job with.
It becomes self perpetuating otherwise, which is all that has happened. Some 3D names became famous from certain shows and movies, and it became a self fulfilling prophecy on which tools to use, folks beginning to think the tools make the art and not the artist.
So I would say don't be close minded in your thinking. There are cases where you just must use industry standard tools, but be sure your case is one - if you are open to jobs in many areas of 3D with many companies, you'll find that just 3D skills count for more than tools.
And indeed if you just want to work in 3D, and are not specific about whether it is movies, or games, or illustration, or design, or collaborative social networks, then tS is an excellent choice. You can do all of those with tS quite happily, and those opportunities are only going to grow :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Délé // Jul 11, 2008, 6:35am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I agree with Tom for the most part.
However, Maya has particles, fluid dynamics, soft bodies, and camera matching (Some are plug-ins, but available none the less). All of which are likely very important in creating realistic movie shots.
Max has texture baking which is extremely important in creating game content. Because it has been used a lot in the game industry, you can also find plug-ins for exporting to your favorite game engines much more easily.
TS does not yet have these things (well...to some extent in model side, but not really on par with these other packages). So for high end gaming or movies, I still think Maya or Max currently have the edge. Though you would be surprised how many people that own these packages use Silo for the modeling.
As you said though, tS may be breaking into it's own niche. Also, many of the tools needed for gaming and movies will likely be implemented at some point in the future, either by Caligari, or by 3rd party developers. TS is still getting comfortable in it's new architecture. I have a feeling that it will be fairly competitive with the "big boys" in two or three years. I think the new bones system and AE is one big step in that direction. |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 6:48am
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TomG
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Yes, don't think I am saying tS can produce Lord Of The Rings at the moment. That's not the gist of it.
The thrust of what I am saying is, of all times to be dismissive of tS as a tool worth investing in, this would be one of the worst :) Anyone consider tS should be told to "wait and see and make up their own mind soon" at this point in time.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 11, 2008, 6:58am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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TS is the leading software package among frog fanatics :p |
Post by Délé // Jul 11, 2008, 6:58am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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The thrust of what I am saying is, of all times to be dismissive of tS as a tool worth investing in, this would be one of the worst Anyone consider tS should be told to "wait and see and make up their own mind soon" at this point in time.Yes, I can't argue with that. ;)
Good things in the force I feel. :p |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 11, 2008, 7:03am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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The truth was that people should assess the tool based on their needs, and not on the needs of a multi-million dollar studio, since clearly their needs and priority would be different.
It took me a few years to find that out !
And much learning and looking around.......
I found my workflow after some years and my goal is earning money through
using that regardless of what studios do or what this group uses or whatever !
And to be honest the more I looked around... the more I am miles away from
the big industry packages !
They are not always the ones that lead to the results in the shortest possible time !
The reason for that is that they are aimed at doing complex animations
and to get the models into these enviroments the people dont care how
hard it is for the individuals to deliver models for them !
They have enough people and resources !
I as a person dont have these limitations to look out for !
So I am in a much better position !
I can go the route that I found out best for my work.
I have read in the past some pretty agressive comments towards some of
these tools and that include Sketchup !(we dont want to see Ts to degrade
to Microsofts answer to Google etc. ..........!!!!):(
Most of these comments from people who have not even touched the software...... but only a few know how much faster an individual can
produce with tools like these as opposed to ANY of the big boys tools...
You can listen to the ads or listen to your own needs !
Its our choice. Dont foreget an hour of modeling time time can be AS EXPENSIVE as THE RIGHT MODELING PACKAGE !
Truespace can be one of them and WE must make it to what WE need !:)
Peter |
Post by splinters // Jul 11, 2008, 7:13am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I give up. I give a personal opinion about tS as a viable program for use in industry and there is a counter argument which digresses into what tS might be capable of in the near future.
You wonder why members leave...:rolleyes: |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 11, 2008, 7:23am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Paul this is a thread on what the package Ts 7.6 will cost !
So thats the question .... and its Toms post that talks about
individual needs vs studio needs !
If you ask here if Truespace will be the preferred tool for blockbusters
then its not going to happen ! Not in the next 5 years !
But its our tool and can be an awfull lot of help if it does what WE
want it to look like and thats much more important for us.
I personally dont even want it to develop into a big studios tool !
That doesn t help ..... !:D
Peter |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 11, 2008, 8:03am
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jamesmc
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Well, the bad thing about Tom's argument about the future use of tS is that by the future program gets here to do all that nice stuff, other software packages will have surpassed that capability and moved on to the next generation of 3D capability.
I have to go with Splinter's argument in that tS is a viable software package now. The reason is raw talent and the ability to stick to a project long term.
People like me are likely never to make any money from tS, in respect to making a living from it. One, I have little foresight on what it takes to deliver a product and two, I don't have innate talent to carry it forward.
People like Jack Edwards, Dele, Nowherebrain, Splinters, Prodigy and others (sorry to leave your name out) could make a video about trueSpace that would literally blow the socks off the 3D world.
It hasn't been done. |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 8:34am
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TomG
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BTW I never stated to wait and see the new functionality :) My statement is to wait and see the new opportunities. This may or may not be related to functionality. Folks are working on new opportunities right now, opportunities that didnt exist a year ago, and that are not founded on any new functionality.
So I too am very much grounded in what tS is already. I just feel that the statement that "recommending trueSpace to a student of 3D is a bad move" (to paraphrase) is way too sweeping a generalisation. Depends on the student, just what they want from 3D, where they are now, where they want to go - and adding an extra comment that now of all the times in the history of tS is not the best of times to tell people to dismiss tS as an option :)
Even if the student plans on working on Hollywood blockbusters long term, tS may still be a good option in the short term, depending on their needs. But the student of 3D may have many other goals long and short term, so recommending tS to them is not always a bad move. And that is the only point I wished to make :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Jul 11, 2008, 9:25am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ok, just to clarify; I am an avid tS user, always have been, and an advocate of the program. I use it for all my project work and I teach it to students from Year 9 (13 years old) up to Year 13 before they leave for UNi. As a visualisation program it is excellent, it even lets me get CAM output from my models.
I am about to release a web based experience where everything, even the logos, are made in tS...lots of stuff that I am very proud of.
Now, if a student asked me what programs they were likely to use in the 3D industry I could name quite a few; Autocad, 3DS Max, Maya, LW, Softimage...even Blender and other open source. Silo and Modo...the list goes on...but I would be cautious of listing tS based on it's history...and I haven't seen it's future...none of us have...:rolleyes:
As for Industry standard, think of it this way;
I drive a Renault MPV. It is nice and fulfills all my needs. Lots of people have them and are happy....but I would never think of taking it to the race track to race against high perfomance racing machines. It was just never meant to compete that way.
An industry standard could also be seen as one that is supported by the wealth of tutorials, renderer, plug-ins etc. Maxwell, Vray (full version) etc.
I am not looking for an argument, I merely expressed my opinion. As for sweeping statements; it was not. I said I would not recommend tS as the program to invest in for a future in the 3D industry.
Lets get this back onto the subject of price, as was intended. I have had my say and we have all digressed from the subject. I apologize for that, but not my comments. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 11, 2008, 9:41am
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RAYMAN
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I just dont get that student of 3d thing ?
That sort of implicates that it sort of must always end with
a job in cinema or games !
I dont think that is true !
Theres a lot of other fields including making realtime enviroments
for scientists or education as such.
I just feel that there are a lot of ways and lots of markets
to look at !
Industry standard ? thats a big word !
I just feel that when something is usefull it gets used....
Peter |
Post by splinters // Jul 11, 2008, 9:57am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Original question..awaiting an official answer:
"I just need to know the following about Truespace 7.6:
1. What will the price be for users of 7.5/7.51? Free upgrade?
2. What will the educational price be?"
We just wait a little while I guess...;) |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 10:02am
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TomG
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Yep, can't answer those questions just yet - as always, until release is imminent. Apologies for that, I know its frustrating, but it just saves more frustration or mix ups. We will get the answer to both of those out to you (well, to everyone of course!) as soon as we can :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Jul 11, 2008, 10:07am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers Tom, wasn't my question...just trying to get back to the original posters question.
I have enough work to do without worrying about new releases...:rolleyes:
:D |
Post by Délé // Jul 11, 2008, 10:38am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I don't see anything off topic here. Tamtam also asked if tS was being used in the industry. Naturally people discussed how it may or may not be used in the industry now and in the near future. That doesn't seem at all off topic to me. :confused:
Anyway, I agree with both sides. I wouldn't consider tS and industry standard just yet, but it is used in different industries. I know people have used tS for product illustration, architectural design, television shows, television commercials, game content, etc.. So tS is most definitely a part of the industry as a whole. There are other apps that are known as the "standards" for given fields. They have found a niche market and honed in on it, adapting their tools and plug-ins to cater to it. Much like tS is doing now.
So that's where I think tS fits into the industry right now. It is not a standard in any particular field but is used in many fields by some freelancers rather than big studios. It's no secret that Caligari is trying to carve out a niche in the online interactive 3d market though. While that doesn't appeal to everyone around here, I do believe that tS will become the standard for this niche. We've already got a good head start. ;) |
Post by prodigy // Jul 11, 2008, 10:38am
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prodigy
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Any ts user older from at least 2 "releases" knows no matter how many times we ask we never get the answer for "this is included?" "how much it cost" "this was fixed?" untill TS is released..
I told this by my personal experience.. :D
In some point is good cos who remember the 7.5 count down release?? huffff that was insane :D
So let's talk about the weather :rolleyes:
I like very much the idea to create a TS comercial, youtube is a very good place to start. :) |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 11, 2008, 10:51am
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jamesmc
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Well, with educational discounts, a student or a teacher would be insane not to get the industry standard 3D software. I mean, one can get software costing thousands for a few hundred. |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 12:08pm
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TomG
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Educational pricing is good, but of course as soon as you want to sell your work, you have to upgrade to the full price. This is of course why they sell it to you at such a low price so that you are reluctant to learn anything else, and you go ahead and invest the bigger chunk of money in their software :)
It is nice to be able to sell the models, images, renders, scenes, spaces etc that you make, while learning too. But again it depends on the needs of the particular individual, if they never plan on selling personally made work and all their commercial stuff will be done in the studio on their paid license then educational is a great way to go - if they want to sell their personal work too, or start selling stuff right away, then educational has its drawbacks.
So as ever, its find what works best for your needs - figuring out just what you need is the main trick to picking the right route for you :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by kena // Jul 11, 2008, 12:37pm
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kena
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So let's talk about the weather :rolleyes:
Well... It's raining and warm here. altogether a nice day.
I love a good thunderstorm with all that flashing and booming. We had that earlier, but it's quietened down now.
:banana: |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 11, 2008, 12:38pm
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jamesmc
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Clear to partly sweaty here. |
Post by splinters // Jul 11, 2008, 12:54pm
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splinters
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Been raining here for bloody days now. I was thinking of modelling an ark...:rolleyes: |
Post by TomG // Jul 11, 2008, 1:15pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The weather here is hot. Though being Texas that's not entirely surprising :) That would be the answer for the weather on 90% of the days! Not sure what I can model in equivalent to an ark, maybe a huge wind turbine but one tha';s powered rather than generates power, to act as a nice cooling fan.
No thunderstorms for a week or two thank goodness - I love em, but my electronics do not, despite UPS and surge protectors and all.
Tom |
Post by frootee // Jul 11, 2008, 1:18pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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How about Giant Texas Sized Frying Pan Tom? :D
I've been there! Literally.
Or...
A Big Steam basket... hehe
ok... ok.... smokey here in Virginia Beach; really high humidity all the time; southwest of here we have the Great Dismal Swamp near Suffolk. And nearby places too;
the peat gets so hot on the ground (it's compost) that it smolders. It is about 6 feet deep or so and man, it stinks like hell.
And it burns Forever. The smoke looks like really heavy fog, for miles on end.
Longest lasting one started in 1923 and freakin burned for 3 years.
Yeah. We're ready to leave this place. |
Post by Délé // Jul 11, 2008, 1:52pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Typical Minnesota summer day here. Hot, muggy, and the mosquitoes are biting.
http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1222_hot_and_sweating_smiley.gif (http://www.clipartof.com) |
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