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tS 7.6 is now FREE!!
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS 7.6 is now FREE!! // Roundtable
Post by kena // Jul 25, 2008, 4:59am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I'm not sure of the complaints here.
I purchased TS V2 - 4. Then from version 5.5 - 7.51. Well.. from version 6.6 on, having paid for the ProTeam, I got upgrades for "free". I also got the courses for "free". Overall, I think I ended up paying about the same as anyone else now that the ProTeam "advantage" is gone, so break even.
I have seen over the past two years, fewer and fewer people using TS. Yesterday, I saw almost 200 people were viewing the forums at one time.
People are coming back. People are joining. If I and the other Active clients of the software had NOT been purchasing it and declaring it to be a wonderful product, I doubt we could have gotten to version 6.6
I am happy to get more people using it.
Should (in the nebulous future) MS decide to drop the product, I'm sure that a userbase will still exist and try to get it back.
I do not feel used, abused, or misled at all. This is the easiest to use modeling and rendering product I have come across and I want to see MORE!! |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 25, 2008, 5:02am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Questions some folk might want to ask themselves:
Are you an artist or an accountant? Seems to me if you are worrying about what it costs to make your art then you are not focused on your art.
If you're an accountant then you must know you have to spend it to make it - Caligari MS has given - repeat given - you a tool to allow you to make art or to make money or - if you are smart, a lot of both. What's to complain about?
Next question - are you a visionary or are you stuck in the past? Seems to me if you are worrying about money you already spent then you're living in the past. The new tS VE Caligari MS union is the way of the future - a 3d internet is inevitable as technological growth increases exponentially.
Software is a consumable commodity with a specific shelf life - the software I paid for last year is obsolete thanks to advances in technology - the new software that replaces the obsolete stuff is free. I paid for the beer I drank last night but if someone buys me a beer tonight am I gonna bitch because they didn't buy my beer last night? I don't think so!
Give me a break!:rolleyes:
Another point - the company you bought tS from was a small company - now it's not - it's a big company (actually part of one of the biggest). The Caligari that sold trueSpace licences doesn't exit any more.
Oh yeah, and while I'm here: Reality check - I invested a small amount of cash when I bought my first copy of tS 5.1. In the intervening years that small investment has allowed me to earn around 80 times that investment back - yeah, 80 times my original investment - and I'm just a hobbiest - I'm not a professional I'm just a guy who makes 3d art for the love of it. That art has paid for itself over and over and over. If you are NOT generating some return - financial or otherwise - then man up to the fact that it's not the tool it's way the tool is used that is important.
If an old codger like me can make an 80 fold return from buying trueSpace without even trying to, what have you been doing? |
Post by TylerZambori // Jul 25, 2008, 5:02am
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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Answering some questions (some from several posts back)
1. The older courses are the same as they were on release, so no need to redownload if you have them.
2. Much of the content wouldn't work / is not very useful any more, so if links are not working you aren't missing out on much ;) Of course, if you are getting page errors, please email the page URL to me at
b-thgrim@microsoft.com so I am aware of what pages are broken and can fix them :) Even an empty page with "No content" is better tha n a server error.
What? Character animation is not very useful anymore??
3. There are no packs or extra content offered by Caligari at this point (they have been discontinued), except V-Ray but that is not free of course.
4. For those who paid for tS, if you hadn't, then you wouldn't be getting 7.6 for free. You are still getting your money's worth, this application would not exist without everyone's support over the years. You are also ahead of the game, now an expert knowledgeable in what could easily be the most widely used 3D application ever. You have had months, or even years, in gaining experience in that application.
The opportunities for you to even profit from that, if you want to recoup your money say, are extraordinary (training, objects, scripts, materials, scenes, worlds, VE objects for paying customers, and more).
So you take away all the old pugins, so we can wait for somebody to
write some new ones?
hmm.... |
Post by transient // Jul 25, 2008, 5:10am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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The character animation course is purely for motion studio, a 6.6 plug-in. This has been superceded by the new bones system, however I would definitely like to take a look at it too, as motion studio is cool.
Most of the best older plug-ins (i.e for modeler) are free. I've never paid for any. The prospect of new plug-ins is very good, though, as this was something that made 6.6 very nice.
Go here (http://emmanuel.asset.free.fr/tsxarchive/index.htm), here (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://www.digivision.com.tw/truespace/tsplugin/index.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTruespace%2Btsx%2Bplugins%26start%3D7 0%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) and here (http://www.primitiveitch.com/pub/) to find most of the plug-ins I still use. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jul 25, 2008, 5:23am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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When will the real time shaders course video be put up? This is something I want to learn.
The download course button just downloads the resources. No video.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by frootee // Jul 25, 2008, 5:26am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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What? Character animation is not very useful anymore??
So you take away all the old pugins, so we can wait for somebody to
write some new ones?
hmm....
Hi Tyler. Yeah as transient said, the character animation video was for MotionStudio, which works on the Model side (6.6). There are a couple really good IK riggers that I think can make some really kickass tutorials. Frog! Where are you dude!!! :D
All the old plugins worked with the old codebase (6.6). 6.6 was written using something like Visual C++ 6.0 (at the latest I suspect). That was released, when, 2000? Something like that. The new codebase (Workspace) is written using Visual Studio 2005 (released in November 2005), and the .NET Framework 2.0. It is *Extremely* different than the classic codebase. Man oh man. Plugin development will be quite different as well. If you know Visual Studio 2005/2008, and ATL (Active Template Library) coding you'll be in good shape. If not, well, gotta learn it. (That's where I am :D )
The plugins were not developed by Caligari corporation. They were developed by independent developers. Basically, it's up to the authors to port their code to the new codebase. The new SDK has not yet been released, but it's coming. It would be good to see if any of the original authors are still around to update their products.
Bottom line is, Model side plugins are not 'understood' by Workspace. They essentially speak two different languages. In order for a Model side plugin to work on Workspace side, significant code changes would be required in the plugin code. Then compile, debug, test, ... lather, rinse, repeat.
So while it would be possible to do so by the Original developer, it's really up to the original developer to port the source code, and the release of the SDK.
<EDIT> I agree... it would be good to make the Model side plugins available for free but maybe that's up to the original developers? <EDIT OFF>
Hope I did not Drone on too long. Heck I probably could've authored a plugin by now... :D
Froo |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 25, 2008, 5:43am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Hi Guys,
I know I havent chimed in here that much over recent years, BUT I still put my money where my mouth is and paid to upgrade as far as v7.5 - over the years also supported a number of the plugins. I find it interesting that not too many people here are even mildly annoyed at this SUDDEN free version thing having paid over the years and even recently enough for an upgrade to a somewhat unfinished app on the new workspace side at least. Anyone else? From reading it seems most may have gone as far as v5 ish - with a free upgrade to 7.6 now - I realise that these people will not complain. So for all others who did put down good money for 7/7.5 it seems - just put up with it, tough!
So - now where does this put the thoughts of those who were a while back making alot of noise about the MS takeover and those who said ye hay this will lead to bigger better things. TS is now in the area of DAZ 3D. It will become a base app for content, an adjunct to Virtual Earth, Google Sketchup type thing. Did we see this coming, some of us did.
Aidan
This is another one of thes unqualified attacks against Sketchup !
Have you used it yet ?
This is brilliantly made and easy software that can make things with very low poly count and has features that are very smart like intelligent snapping
of components !
I also read about software with sketchy look and all the other bla bla bla !
Most of you people who constantly nudge that ingenious software should
know that it is wonderfull to use it together with Truespace !
Everything you make in Truespace can be loaded into Sketchup to be snapped
into place and fully arrayed WITH snapping up to a huge poly count !
You can build whole cities and reload them into Truespace realtime engine without any fuss with HUNDREDS of windows with real modeled mesh
NOT bumpmapped !
Of all software out there Sketchup is one of the best companions to Truespace as od as it may look at this stage ! TRY IT OUT and dont talk
bad things without any practical knowledge !
Hope I dont have to say that again !;)
Peter |
Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 6:03am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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For a variety of reasons, from licensing to then having to support a lot of discontinued products that only work on the old tech side anyway, the packs and similar will not be given away for free - in other words, it won't happen for the same reasons that they got discontinued for in the first place :)
Character animation is useful, the Character Animation course is not so useful, it is for Motion Studio, an old plugin, great when tS6.6 bones were the only option, but not so relevant now the new bones system is in place.
See above about the plugins.
Web page fixes will be going live today, for all currently reported broken links etc. Those are expected to be live in 3 or 4 hours (so check back on the Char Anim course and the tS7 Shaders download around then, I'll post when I know they are visible).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Jul 25, 2008, 6:10am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Buying tS at the time of its development, helped its development and made it what it is today (so good that MS pickd it up!). As a thankyou, the latest (greatest) version is given to you absolutely free.
I fail to see the problem. I once bought an N64 for over £250 on launch day only to see it plummet to just over £100 within a month or two. Just tough there I guess!!
I am glad to have suported tS in any way I can and, as someone paid for working for Caligari over the years, I now appreciate the importance of them actually selling the product. |
Post by JimB // Jul 25, 2008, 6:17am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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This is another one of thes unqualified attacks against Sketchup !
Have you used it yet ?
This is brilliantly made and easy software that can make things with very low poly count and has features that are very smart like intelligent snapping
of components !
I also read about software with sketchy look and all the other bla bla bla !
Most of you people who constantly nudge that ingenious software should
know that it is wonderfull to use it together with Truespace !
Everything you make in Truespace can be loaded into Sketchup to be snapped
into place and fully arrayed WITH snapping up to a huge poly count !
You can build whole cities and reload them into Truespace realtime engine without any fuss with HUNDREDS of windows with real modeled mesh
NOT bumpmapped !
Of all software out there Sketchup is one of the best companions to Truespace as od as it may look at this stage ! TRY IT OUT and dont talk
bad things without any practical knowledge !
Hope I dont have to say that again !;)
Peter
There are advantages to having a copy of Sketchup on our hd as Peter is pointing out.I am aware that Sketchup is the modeler of choice for the other virtual world outfit,but as TS users with both available to us is only a win win situation :D
BTW I am absolutely delighted on the decision to offer TS76 for free,it is so nice to see so many new people on the forums. :banana:
Jim |
Post by MikeJoel // Jul 25, 2008, 6:38am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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For a variety of reasons, from licensing to then having to support a lot of discontinued products that only work on the old tech side anyway, the packs and similar will not be given away for free - in other words, it won't happen for the same reasons that they got discontinued for in the first place :)
..........
HTH!
Tom
Is that the reason Caligari isn't planning to release the older version also?
Thanks
Mike |
Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 6:44am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Yes, those are the reasons (more than one reason given there :) )
HTH!
Tom |
Post by prodigy // Jul 25, 2008, 6:52am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Tom. when you say "will not be given away for free" that means not for free? but yes paying? or "not for free" means.. distroyed, no more, nunca mas... |
Post by Steinie // Jul 25, 2008, 6:59am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Tom,
Of course with a purchase comes "Support" So other then these forums does support still exist and does it apply to the Free copies too? |
Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 7:21am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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There are no currently available plugins for free or purchase at this time, other than V-Ray. The previously available ones will not be showing up for free. That's all we need to know for now :) Can't get into conjecture and speculation for the future.
For those who purchased products previously, your support remains just the same as it was before the release of trueSpace7.6.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 25, 2008, 9:30am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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There are advantages to having a copy of Sketchup on our hd as Peter is pointing out.I am aware that Sketchup is the modeler of choice for the other virtual world outfit,but as TS users with both available to us is only a win win situation :D
BTW I am absolutely delighted on the decision to offer TS76 for free,it is so nice to see so many new people on the forums. :banana:
Jim
Yes I´m very happy on the decision too and I want to thank Roman and
his team for it !
Here 2 pictures to show what JimB and I are talking about !
We now have both worlds and if you look at the renders of the titanic
those virtual world models -here a Sketchup model from the warehouse
can stand up very nicely when rendered with an offline renderer
and come very nicely in the realtime enviroment of TS !
Only bottleneck at the moment is model side import !
Heres the tutorial on using the free google Sketchup in TS or Blender..... for rthe moment . JimB showed us : http://alexvaqp.googlepages.com/sketchupblender
:)
Would be fantastic to see a direct importer soon ! |
Post by Meffy // Jul 25, 2008, 10:24am
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Meffy
Total Posts: 9
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Pardon me if this is a dumb question. It's related to previous posts and probably covered already by TomG, but I'd still rather ask specifically about this particular product.
Disclaimer/apology for lameness: Though I started with trueSpace 1 for PC, I skipped 5 and 6 and couldn't get 7.51 to run on my nVidia 8800GT... so I'm not as up on things as I'd like. Forgive a cheapskate; I did fork over all-too-scarce bucks for the 7.51 update with V-Ray!
I half-remember a Caligari email from last year with a special price on a game format export (and I suppose import) add-on product compatible with many popular 3D games. I don't recall whether it was a third-party product but guess it must have been. The question -- yes, I do have a question! :-} -- is this: Is that game model format import/export product one of the "packs" that's no longer available? I'm interested in using tS to make models for Civilization IV, Neverwinter Nights 2, maybe even Spore. If this add-on is incompatible with 4.6, I'd be interested in seeing an updated version, especially if there were an introductory price similar to that previous special.
Thanks,
Meffy |
Post by Norm // Jul 25, 2008, 10:47am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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You may still be able to purchase plugins from their respective developer's web sites. Just no longer from the Caligari Storefront. |
Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 11:01am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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gamePak is no longer available - not sure it supported the formats for those games anyway. As Norm notes, there are many conversion programs out there that may work if tS doesnt support the format directly at present.
Note that gamePak was not a single add on, but a range of import and export formats, many developed by third parties anyway, just gathered into one bundle. Searching for third party convertors will still find solutions for many of those formats I am sure.
With such a large target audience now, someone may well start writing specific exports / imports for tS as well.
An 8800GT will run tS amazingly well. COuld be you ran into driver issues (NVIDIA had a bad spate of issues from the end of last year til 3 months or so ago), but that hardware will be great on tS (I use an 8800 myself).
Spore is its own editor though I think, part of the fun of the game. The creator is a lot of fun to play with, I went and bought that in anticipation for the final thing.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Meffy // Jul 25, 2008, 11:17am
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Meffy
Total Posts: 9
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I see -- thanks, I'll look more deeply into individual formats.
My system is Vista 64 bit so drivers can be a challenge. When I installed the 7.6 update I thought at first everything worked fine, but as soon as I performed certain actions (manipulating the view would do it) in Workspace the display's client area went solid gray. That was marginally better than I got in 7.51 but not there yet. Checked nVidia's site and lo, there were new drivers. Once those were installed the remaining problem vanished. Now I am a camper, and I am happy.
[edit] I've got the Spore Creature Creator too. The content I'd like to make using tS is add-on packages of snouts and claws and eyes... and eventually tires and streetlamps and star-drives and picture windows and trees and so forth. :-} I like the parametric animation of most body parts, letting users vary horn curvature or mouth spikiness in complex, multi-stage ways. Part of the "demoscene" heritage of Spore, I'm thinking. But beg pardon, I digress even from digressions. *heh* |
Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 11:36am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Good to hear! Having the latest NVIDIA drivers seems to be quite important at the moment. I need to update mine actually now I think about it :)
Tom |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 25, 2008, 12:17pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Working drivers can me more important than latest. :rolleyes: It's worth keeping older working drivers around just incase they screw it up like they did with pretty much everything that came after the 163.75 driver until very recently. While a little bit on the slower side the 177.66 drivers have been stable for me so far and resolved some issue with earlier drivers. |
Post by frootee // Jul 25, 2008, 12:24pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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One thing I find interesting, regarding drivers and truespace is this: the issues are almost always with nVidia drivers and cards; and almost never ATI. How come? Does ATI just not update their drivers very often? I can't remember the last time I had to do that (unless it's being done automatically). |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 25, 2008, 12:30pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I've been noticing that as well, to the point that I'm now recommending ATI cards for use with TrueSpace instead of nVidia cards. I've been an nVidia guy for a long time and fast hardware is a good thing, but when it comes down to it I'd rather pick the card with drivers that work. What does it matter how fast the hardware is if it doesn't work? |
Post by Délé // Jul 25, 2008, 12:30pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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That's a good point Jack. I have stuck with the 78.01 drivers (very old) ever since tS7.0 first came out. Every time I tried to update the drivers, they were worse than 78.01. So I just stuck with that.
Unfortunately I started getting driver failures with 7.6 here, so I updated to the latest. Now I often get flickering while in FPN or navigating in larger scenes. Now I have to try to hunt for a new driver version that works good. That will not be any fun. :(
I've REALLY lost a LOT of respect for Nvidia the last couple of years. They have great cards, but can not seem to make decent drivers for them. My next card might very well be an ATI. As frootie said, I haven't heard of many complaints with tS and ATI cards. Then again, maybe fewer people use them too. :confused: |
Post by TheLion36 // Jul 25, 2008, 12:33pm
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TheLion36
Total Posts: 36
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gamePak is no longer available - not sure it supported the formats for those games anyway. As Norm notes, there are many conversion programs out there that may work if tS doesnt support the format directly at present.
Note that gamePak was not a single add on, but a range of import and export formats, many developed by third parties anyway, just gathered into one bundle. Searching for third party convertors will still find solutions for many of those formats I am sure.
With such a large target audience now, someone may well start writing specific exports / imports for tS as well.
An 8800GT will run tS amazingly well. COuld be you ran into driver issues (NVIDIA had a bad spate of issues from the end of last year til 3 months or so ago), but that hardware will be great on tS (I use an 8800 myself).
Spore is its own editor though I think, part of the fun of the game. The creator is a lot of fun to play with, I went and bought that in anticipation for the final thing.
HTH!
Tom
Too bad tho, just like Meffy I would have been willing to pay something like the special pricing we had last year on all of the paks (except GamePAK unfortunately :() which was something like 20 euros. I remember seeing a few nice formats in that PAK like the MD2 / MD3.
At the moment (if memory serves) only the X format export supports animation and is widely supported by other programs like MilkShape. And as an aspiring game developer especially the MD2 / MD3 formats are of special interest to me. :)
I can imagine that Caligari doesn't want to support these products anymore, but theres always the possibility to release / sell these things at a low price on an as-is basis. Some of the older plugins are very hard to get and a lot of the companies that made/sold them are gone or shifted their business to a different field/3D application and with Primitive Itch no longer being around the Caligari Shop was the last place where certain plugins could still be gotten... Just seems a shame to let all those fabulous plugins go to waste! :( |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 25, 2008, 1:02pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Workspace side has a modern X format exporter that supports skinning and bones based animation.
Ultimate Unwrap 3D should work as a way to convert from X format to some of the other game engine formats. Not to mention that it's a great UV mapping companion to TrueSpace.
Headus UVLayout still has 'em beat for organic UV mapping though. Of course the price tag is a bit more serious as well. :rolleyes: |
Post by Dude // Jul 25, 2008, 2:42pm
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Dude
Total Posts: 10
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How do you render in v 7.6?
Dude |
Post by splinters // Jul 25, 2008, 2:48pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Read the tech FAQ, it is easier than trying to explain..but you cannot render (other than realtime) from workspace unless you have Vray. Switch to model side and use LW or VL...:D |
Post by Meffy // Jul 25, 2008, 4:13pm
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Meffy
Total Posts: 9
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Wow, have I got a lot to learn. =o.O= It's a big jump from the last version I really did a lot of work in, 3.0. But when I think how much easier some of that work would have been using the tools in 7.6...
Wow. Very nice. |
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