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tS 7.6 is now FREE!!
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS 7.6 is now FREE!! // Roundtable
Post by frootee // Jul 25, 2008, 5:58pm
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frootee
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With a lot of new users, I'd like to add that we have the shared spaces available for Collaboration. On Tuesday nights we have the scriptor meeting, on Saturdays, the Animator's Club, and every other Thursday or so, is the TNL!
The TNL! (Thursday Night Live!) is a general event where everyone comes to just hang out, have fun, have a 10 minute Speed Model Challenge, ask technical questions, etc.
Asking questions from the experts LIVE! is the fastest way to learn IMHO.
Check the Collaboration Forum for Showtimes and Listings. :D
Froo |
Post by foleypro // Jul 25, 2008, 9:00pm
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foleypro
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Man...
I just spent the money to upgrade to 7.5...
Well this is a great oppurtunity for new users...
Been using tS since 99 myself...:banana: |
Post by Davin // Jul 25, 2008, 10:59pm
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Davin
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I am happy that tS7.6 is now free but I am still afraid and this is why:
I have been using trueSpace since tS2, and I have been very happy even though then tS was way behind the modeling and rendering curve.
The reason I was happy was because Caligari had been making huge improvements in each new version to where they are now (well sine tS5), an excellent competitor when comparing features and rendering quality (not even considering the easy to use UI, the real time manipulations and not having to go through menus and dialogs for most things).
If they keep the development team, and let them work on finishing up the features that are missing that other 3D modeling applications have (dynamic fur, cloth and a few other things), then I will be very happy, but if MS does the same thing with tS that they do with every other application they acquire (making it easy for new users but more difficult and/or time consuming for advanced users and making it run and work slower), then I will not be very happy.
So MS bought trueSpace and made it free: good move, I just hope that they don't destroy the application that Caligari had worked so hard on over the last two decades. Because tS was about to become the best 3D modeler/renderer known to man that no one could argue with. |
Post by Délé // Jul 25, 2008, 11:15pm
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Délé
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Roman has more years invested in tS than anyone. I'm sure he made this move because he believes that it is in the best interest of tS and it's users. We'll have to wait and see what happens, but I have good feelings about it. :) |
Post by Steinie // Jul 26, 2008, 1:17am
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Hey you can only judge by what has happened so far. Heck I'm now watching video tutorials I wouldn't have purchased before about scripting, modifying widgets, product illustration etc.
I work almost strictly as a cartoonist, so having access to an open library is a benefit and education for me. I can now broaden my skills by taking advantage of this new (free) gold mine.
There are lots of long time forum/tS users here already who have plans or have in the works new tools sets, tutorials, online magazines, new rendering choices etc. As the numbers grow so will our talent pool.
I have read in some threads that trueSpace isn't being used by "Professionals".
Well I know quite a few here already making a living with trueSpace or incorporating tS into their work flow.
There are two or three "Characters" who show up at these upgrade parties and every time talk about what trueSpace should have done in the past, what they would do etc. Yet in a few days they will disappear helping no one, getting self gratification in their sour days.
The "regulars" here are "Professional","Amateur" and "Students" who get along, suggest improvements to Caligari and help make trueSpace better in each point release. The repayment from Caligari is a FREE awesome piece of software for all artistic levels. Not bad. |
Post by 3dtrc // Jul 26, 2008, 6:52am
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Have you seen this...so funny...Blender users griping about truespace's UI...
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=131041
Thanks Caligari and Roman for the free release...been using from the 4.0 days...was only up to 6.6, so thanks much again.:banana: |
Post by brotherx // Jul 26, 2008, 7:38am
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brotherx
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It is quite entertaining. But then again, I can also appreciate it. It is all about familiarity. |
Post by Délé // Jul 26, 2008, 8:46am
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Délé
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It is kind of strange that Blender users find the tS UI difficult. Especially since Blender is quite well known for the difficulty of it's own UI. Then again, it seems that people either really like the graphical UI in tS, or they hate it. There's not a whole lot of in between. I liked it within the first few minutes of trying it. I got up and running in tS much sooner than any other program. That was before the 7x series though so it wasn't a split architecture. That does make learning a bit more difficult. I'm sure it will be much easier when the new architecture breaks free. :)
I wonder how many people that like menus instead of graphical buttons gave up on tS before they realized that you can switch the toolbars to 1d menus? |
Post by frootee // Jul 26, 2008, 9:05am
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frootee
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well once you get used to one thing, anything unfamiliar is, unpleasant I guess. |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 26, 2008, 9:09am
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It is kind of strange that Blender users find the tS UI difficult. Especially since Blender is quite well known for the difficulty of it's own UI. Then again, it seems that people either really like the graphical UI in tS, or they hate it. There's not a whole lot of in between. I liked it within the first few minutes of trying it. I got up and running in tS much sooner than any other program. That was before the 7x series though so it wasn't a split architecture. That does make learning a bit more difficult. I'm sure it will be much easier when the new architecture breaks free. :)
I wonder how many people that like menus instead of graphical buttons gave up on tS before they realized that you can switch the toolbars to 1d menus?
then you should tell them how instead of making them guess. |
Post by TSJames // Jul 26, 2008, 9:48am
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It is kind of strange that Blender users find the tS UI difficult. Especially since Blender is quite well known for the difficulty of it's own UI. Then again, it seems that people either really like the graphical UI in tS, or they hate it. There's not a whole lot of in between. I liked it within the first few minutes of trying it. I got up and running in tS much sooner than any other program. That was before the 7x series though so it wasn't a split architecture. That does make learning a bit more difficult. I'm sure it will be much easier when the new architecture breaks free. :)
I wonder how many people that like menus instead of graphical buttons gave up on tS before they realized that you can switch the toolbars to 1d menus?
heh...i started on Blender about 6 months ago. I knew about TS beforehand but never bought the program and worked with it in depth. I've always wanted to and was really surprised with the recent announcement. I just started to look it over and the interface is quite an adjustment. I don't consider Blender's interface difficult because that was the first 3D program i really started to learn. So, coming to TS is more of a challenge. Do you have any suggestions or recommendations with learning this program outside the tutorials off-course to get used to TS? Any other Blender users want to chime in. I want to use TS AND Blender to the max. Thanks |
Post by Spacman // Jul 26, 2008, 9:53am
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Big thanks too Roman and his crew...congrats.
Big thanks too MS for the incentive to come back from 6.5
Im looking forward to this...hope to contribute in future.
I forgot about the Nurb modelling...so cool :D
Oh! and a BIG hello to you all :banana: I think im home at last
any idea if Truespace will be at the Big 3D show and Shine show in august? |
Post by parva // Jul 26, 2008, 10:03am
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heh...i started on Blender about 6 months ago. I knew about TS beforehand but never bought the program and worked with it in depth. I've always wanted to and was really surprised with the recent announcement. I just started to look it over and the interface is quite an adjustment. I don't consider Blender's interface difficult because that was the first 3D program i really started to learn. So, coming to TS is more of a challenge. Do you have any suggestions or recommendations with learning this program outside the tutorials off-course to get used to TS? Any other Blender users want to chime in. I want to use TS AND Blender to the max. Thanks
The problem is mostly that old program users are biased. They already know the program and can just give tips how they personally got the use for the program.
truespace has an icon driven interface. Thats more clearly in the modeler (the truespace6 site - for me still the biggest dissapoinment that truespace hasn't got a clean line between old and new but well that was a decision made long ago).
The workspace side is a melange between old truespace (all icons visible) and a stack bar at the right side (similar like 3ds max).
Now where to start. The tutorial videos are free and there is ALOT to discover, surely too much for a beginner. It can be overwhelming.
As an biased user who want to model I would stick with the (old) modeler part. The new workspace is great for realtime fun. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 26, 2008, 10:28am
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Jack Edwards
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Welcome to the forum Spacman and TSJames! :)
Probably the quickest way to get up to speed would be downloading the Workspace Organics Modeling Course that I made for Caligari some months back. It was done for 7.51 so some of the icons have been moved in 7.6, but covers a lot of the basics and gets you started modeling very quickly:
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/WorkspaceOrganicModeling1.asp?Cate=Training&Subcate=Fundamental
Also if you get stuck or have any questions don't hesitate to ask for help. ;) |
Post by noko // Jul 26, 2008, 10:41am
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I second that! Jack's course is outstanding for understanding tS. He does such a marvelous job of showing, explaining and telling how to use the interface I think many will be surprised. Beginner or Pro, this is a must have course to go through! Of course the benefit of learning organic modeling as well comes with this as well :). |
Post by Délé // Jul 26, 2008, 11:15am
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Délé
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I agree as well. Jack's course is a good place to start. ;) It will definitely take a while to understand the different windows and memorize the many icons though. Being patient and taking it step by step is the way to go. With the program being split between two architectures right now, there is a lot to digest. Between the videos, the manual, the forums here, and even the online collaboration meetings, one should be able to get the hang of using tS before too long. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 26, 2008, 5:40pm
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This is an old chestnut - the difference between an icon driven interface and a written word menu interface. My advice (FWIW) remember that as far as your brain goes it's actually easier to learn an icon that shows it's function pictorially than it is to learn a menu item that does not show it's function.
You still need to learn to use the tool and where it is located regardless of whether the button that activates it has a word on it or a picture. Please do not be fooled into thinking icon driven interfaces are harder to learn than menu driven ones - as far as your brain is concerned there is no real difference.
Where tS has a definite advantage over Blender is that the workflows are well optimised - for example all the selection tools are in one flyout, all the bone and skinning tools are in another so there is no diving from one menu to another.
But hey, don't take my word for it, try it for yourself and make up your own mind! :D |
Post by Ambrose // Jul 27, 2008, 2:56am
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Woaw just downloaded it all within 5'
Those servers are really kicking ass ;) nice...
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by weshowe // Jul 27, 2008, 3:49pm
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Very much so.
Getting additional 3rd party plugin support will require releasing the 7.6 SDK, no one wants to start porting work to the old interface and have to redo it later.
Even a preliminary release of the SDK documentation will help get the process started.
<* Wes *> |
Post by frootee // Jul 27, 2008, 4:49pm
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frootee
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weshowe and everyone,
if you are interested in plugin development, and TomG pointed out, shoot him an email.
Not sure what will come of that at this point; but I recall he posted that earlier this week.
Man what a week huh? :D
Froo |
Post by JakeB // Jul 27, 2008, 5:43pm
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Although the disclaimer is as always, nobody outside of the managing group
knows truly what will happen.
I have watched and participated in many buy-outs. Currently, one of my
clients has been purchased by IBM as part of a greater project just like
Caligari and MS.
Usually the buyer has decided that some particular quality of the purchase
will extend its overall objective. They would not necessarily tell the seller
about their ultimate objective but rather about their immediate obvious
objective. Partly for competitve reasons and partly because large
organizations do not filter down the true major objectives.
Since MS has not previously shown interest replacing the leaders in the
3D creation world, it seems unlikely they are trying to get a foothold in such
a small market (relative to games, O/S, and office products). As others have
mentioned Virtual Earth is a key reason. But what about a Second Life(tm)
type scenario using truePlaces? 3D social networking/collaboration is on the
horizon. As part of an intermediate objective trueSpace can be used to
generate interest, seed development, and avoid open source alternatives
in creating 3D content. trueSpace itself will go the way of the MS alternative
to Photoshop Elements, but lay the foundation for another way for MS to
interact with the 3D industry. On to my crystal ball. :)
trueSpace 7.6 (and any patches such as 7.61) will be the end of the old
trueSpace paradigm. MS trueSpace 8.0 (for lack of a better name) will
be workSpace only. Assuming that MS keep the interface. Their human
factors group may want the interface to be more accessible to casual
modelers. Any features that do not further Virtual Earth or 3D Social
Networking content creation will not be ported from the tS6.6 interface
to the tS7.6 interface. Time is development money, and loss of user
mindshare. MS needs the former Caligari to focus its resources and the
additional resources that will allocated to build a product that will allow
accessibility and depth of features. Two objectives that tend to conflict.
Hence why so many MS products are bloated.
There may be a free and a pro version of the software. Free for content
creation and pro for development and revenue generating activities. Selling
the product is not really something MS will want get into. When you are as
large as MS unit sales must be high for it to make sense to sell a product
Different groups in the company have conflicting agendas in order to
maintain their group's performance. It's true for IBM and is it true for MS.
One clue to this separation is that the licencing agreement for tS7.6 is
the Caligari agreement and contains no mention of MS. Microsoft will hold
the copyright to tS 7.6 under its Caligari entity but move future iterations
to the MS umbrella. By doing this they maintain a legal separation between
the two intellectual properties which leaves them with more options in the
future.
Right or wrong in my prognostications, change happens to all things. We can
not control the change but we have absolute control on how we react to it.
The content you create can not be locked into tS so whatever you do can
be moved elsewhere if tS does not head in the direction you want.
Proprietary 3D is dead because it can not gain the support of a user base
because there are open source alternatives. So closed source has to work
with the world around it if it wants to maintain a place in the market.
Please use, enjoy, and learn trueSpace 7.6. If you are new to 3D the
knowledge you gain will help you with any 3D work you do in the future.
Learning an interface is only a few days work. Learning to 3D model is like
golf, a lifetime pursuit. :jumpy: |
Post by transient // Jul 27, 2008, 6:27pm
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Since MS has not previously shown interest replacing the leaders in the 3D creation world, it seems unlikely they are trying to get a foothold in such a small market (relative to games, O/S, and office products).
Microsoft bought softimage purely to promote windows NT as a viable alternative to unix, which is still probably the biggest revolution ever in 3d. They've bought truespace presumably with the same goal for online 3d worlds.
Any features that do not further Virtual Earth or 3D Social
Networking content creation will not be ported from the tS6.6 interface
to the tS7.6 interface.
Many of the best parts of 6.6 (and pretty much all of blender's) were the result of third-party efforts. With the sdk, and a theoretically limitless customer base, anything that really needs to happen in truespace will probably occur whether microsoft consider it a priority, or not.
The same could be said of 3dstudio as well, which has been riding on the success of it's third party support for years.
I find many other aspects of your analysis equally suspect, but this the time for happiness, not fighting or cassandra prophecies imo. |
Post by skipper // Jul 27, 2008, 10:38pm
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I would like to applaud the entire Caligari team for this particularly smart move.
As a token for my appreciation, I went ahead and purchased a copy of VRAY for tS7.6. :D
Congratulations on this milestone and I wish you guys all the best!!
:banana: |
Post by magoo108 // Jul 28, 2008, 4:05am
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thanks great videos, I have ts 6 just got ts 7.6 can't figure out how
to get it to render in model, it says no renderer installed. Went in preferences how do I install renderer from there.
Thanks magoo108 |
Post by skipper // Jul 28, 2008, 4:20am
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skipper
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^^^^ You need to render out of Modeler, not Workspace. You will need to get VRay to render out of Workspace. |
Post by Délé // Jul 28, 2008, 9:19am
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Délé
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If you're pressing the render button and you are getting a message saying that there is no offline renderer, then you are pressing the Workspace render button. You need to press the render button on the Model side.
Here is more info:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=72295&postcount=10 |
Post by trebs // Jul 28, 2008, 9:36am
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Amazing..
What a move!
I've not read all the topics related to this latest twist in the tale of Caligari but the initial reaction to the mail-shot was.. wow!
Roman, Congratulations. Years and years of development and believing in your product have paid off. 20 odd years hard graft in a very tough sector and you're up there with the mainstream. 'Free' might upset a lot of long-standing users and upgraders but the potential market has opened up hugely.
Once the MS ball starts rolling and word gets out I think this'll be pretty big.
To be able to do this, financially is amazing, without the support of MS I think impossible. Knowing what I do of you and having the pleasure of actually meeting you, I thoroughly believe that this is a huge lift for your morale. You baby, your product being given to people to develop and progress in the world of 3D content creation.
The potential spin-offs now are even more real, I think a new wave of users will wash through and rejuvenate the current population of die-hard users.
I really do admire your staying power and total commitment to your product.
Of course, I address Roman here, but there's a crew behind the scenes that work very hard on the development and marketing. People have come and gone, and even returned again. Well done to all of you.
Regards,
Rob.
(trebs) |
Post by foleypro // Jul 28, 2008, 9:36am
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been a modeler since 99 with tSse...
Best damn Program that I Have had the Pleasure to use for the grand ole price of $14.95 of course I bought this in 99 at half price books..
I still have the 3.5 disks for se...
I actually still model in se because in my opinion it is the most stable that Roman came out with..:banana: |
Post by JakeB // Jul 28, 2008, 10:10am
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"Microsoft bought Softimage purely to promote Windows NT as a viable alternative to UNIX, which is still probably the biggest revolution ever in 3d. They've bought trueSpace presumably with the same goal for online 3d worlds."
Yes Transient, Softimage was purchased by MS to promote NT for
workstation applcations. Microsoft had no real interest in becoming a
3D application provider. I was actually involved with both companies at the
time. This is why I said they had not shown previous interest in
3D applications. There was nothing revolutionary in the MS purchase. They
were simply trying to break into the workstation market which holds unit sale
prices far beyond consumer pricing.
In a difference of opinion, I would say the democratization of 3D apps
came from ports from the Amiga (such as trueSpace) and that was a greater
revolution to generalized 3D modeling. Unix apps ported to NT just
made affordable workstations. They didn't put 3D in the hands of the
common person (excluding piracy and license violations).
"Many of the best parts of 6.6 (and pretty much all of blender's) were the result of third-party efforts. With the sdk, and a theoretically limitless customer base, anything that really needs to happen in truespace will probably occur whether Microsoft consider it a priority, or not.
The same could be said of 3dstudio as well, which has been riding on the success of it's third party support for years."
I never discussed 3rd party apps. I would agree with your comment
concerning their potential to keep 7.6 alive. It does not invalidate what
I said. As a business they will focus on features which promote 3D social
networking and Virtual Earth. They will leave features that do not further
these immediate goals for 3rd parties to develop. Is there some other
application for trueSpace that you think MS would be aiming for right now?
"I find many other aspects of your analysis equally suspect, but this the time for happiness, not fighting or cassandra prophecies imo."
This reads as a passive aggressive statement to me, which I find suspect. :D
I am not saying that trueSpace is doomed or that it will become the number
one app. All I am stating is that it will move from a generalize app to one
targeted towards 3D social networking and Virtual Earth. 3rd party apps
may extend that if the 3rd party developers believe they will benefit from it.
Unlike Cassandra's warning for Paris (Greek Myth), or Cassandra's prophecy
for Lister (Red Dwarf), not sure which you were referring to. I am certain
trueSpace will continue on. I am also certain it will be different than the
program you have known to date because in my opinion it has a very
defined direction now which serves an immediate interest by MS. |
Post by transient // Jul 28, 2008, 3:33pm
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transient
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This reads as a passive aggressive statement to me, which I find suspect.
That's cool. I'm sure a corporate big-shot like yourself has better things to do with their time than talk to passive-aggressive nobodies like me. I will point out, though, that at least I took the time to consider your opinions and respond to your post, unlike everyone else who seems to have ignored it.
Bye! |
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