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VRay...Should I buy it?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
VRay...Should I buy it? // Roundtable
Post by jtucker // Jul 24, 2008, 2:33am
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jtucker
Total Posts: 11
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I am a long time user of TS, going back to TS SE. When TS7 came out I did not get Vray. Is it just another renderer? Why do I need it? Now I have a little extra dispossable income:) Thanks For your advice.
J. Tucker |
Post by TigreStripe // Jul 24, 2008, 2:39am
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TigreStripe
Total Posts: 75
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I am a long time user of TS, going back to TS SE. When TS7 came out I did not get Vray. Is it just another renderer? Why do I need it? Now I have a little extra dispossable income:) Thanks For your advice.
J. Tucker
Google VRAY and you can get an idea about what kind of renderer it is. Keep in mind that the TS Version does not have all the features of some of the other variants but it still does quite a beautiful job. |
Post by Steinie // Jul 24, 2008, 2:47am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Since you didn't know what VRay is I would wait until the dust settles. There might be other options coming on the horizon.
Dribble (very cheap) might be ported over to the workSpace side allowing you to hook up with a free version of 3Delight ($1000) Renderer.
Jack might be working on a project using the free Kerkythea rendering engine.
I'm sure other choices will come. Unless you do this stuff for a living or you have money burning your pocket I would wait before deciding.
By the Way look at "Prodigy" 's work here for examples of VRay in action.:)
Also take time to explore tS 7.6 realtime rendering built in! (FREE!) |
Post by brotherx // Jul 24, 2008, 3:14am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I have VRay and while it can produce stunning results the real-time renderer is pretty amazing - real-time results. no waiting like you have to with VRay. Ok, it isn't as amazing render-wise but pretty amazing still. |
Post by TomG // Jul 24, 2008, 4:11am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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V-Ray is primarily about adding Global Illumination and Caustics. The first bounces light around in a scene. The second adds the effect of light reflecting off and refracting through materials such as mirrors, glass, metal etc.
Those are not available in Lightworks. They are available in VirtuaLight, but V-Ray is generally considered faster, better quality, easier to set up. Overall V-Ray is considered a fast renderer too, often faster than Lightworks.
These features are great for photorealistic rendering, and can make it very easy to achieve professional results with a lot less time required spent setting up of lighting etc.
Those are the main factors I would say to consider when considering V-Ray.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 24, 2008, 4:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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With TS now free and the major bugs finally out of the way, I'd say that the $300 for VRay for TS is a very good deal. :cool:
The biggest advantage to VRay is the ease of lighting setup. For many outdoor scenes, all you will need is a single infinite light representing the sun! For indoor scenes HDRI and a single spot light is often enough. GI makes these kind of setups very convincing without any additional work.
This image here is lit with one spotlight and an HDRI:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=70643&postcount=5 |
Post by prodigy // Jul 24, 2008, 4:39am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Don't want to compare your great render Jack..
But another great choice is Dribble (Renderman for Truespace).. for 35 $ (on a limited time promo) you can get Renderman running on your truespace..
BTW. Renderman is Pixar's render engine ;)
Here is a great example of Dribble at work!
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=71534&postcount=1
Get Dribble now at a very very affordable price!
http://truespace.coolpowers.com/
50% ~ 50% Siw??? hahahahaha just kiding!!! |
Post by dazza101 // Jul 24, 2008, 3:49pm
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dazza101
Total Posts: 5
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G'day all,
I am one of the newbies that I expect will come flooding in here now that the news of TS7.6 as freeware gets out. I spent a lot of time last night trying to get the hang of TS and probably spent more time reading the pdf manual than I have with any other software in recent times... I know that there is a learning curve and hope its not too steep and that I don't ask too many stupid questions - but having said that, this may be my first.
I read this thread with interest, because even after reading through about half of the manual I still could find out how to select the render engine to use. All my attempts at doing a render were met with an error that I have no off-line renderer installed. I did (via the TS6 menu -> prefs) find that there are two renderers installed (virtuallight and lightworks). But I am still a little flumoxed by the off-line render issue (and the fact that when I try to render using either of the supplied render engines TS7.6 dies, but that may be because I need to update my video drivers, which I am downloading now).
So I was both intrigued by the discussion about VRay and Dribble. Does this mean that there is no default off-line render engine installed with the default TS v7.6 install?
If so, I suspect that there will be a lot of newcomers that do what I did and load a scene from the library, read enough of the manual to get a sense of what to do and hit the render button and get an error saying that there's no off-line renderer installed. My first reaction was , okay, so that's the catch! You get the modeller, but if you want to render then you need to pay. So I am glad to see that there are lower cost options like dribble/3delight and also VRay for when I get more comfortable with TS and undertand where and how it will add to my workflow and results.
Sorry, this is sounding a bit like a rant now, when what I really wanted to say was g'day - and ask for a little clarification about the render engines. Any guidance most appreciated.
Don't want to compare your great render Jack..
But another great choice is Dribble (Renderman for Truespace).. for 35 $ (on a limited time promo) you can get Renderman running on your truespace..
BTW. Renderman is Pixar's render engine ;)
Here is a great example of Dribble at work!
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=71534&postcount=1
Get Dribble now at a very very affordable price!
http://truespace.coolpowers.com/
50% ~ 50% Siw??? hahahahaha just kiding!!! |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 24, 2008, 4:01pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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G'day all,
I am one of the newbies that I expect will come flooding in here now that the news of TS7.6 as freeware gets out. I spent a lot of time last night trying to get the hang of TS and probably spent more time reading the pdf manual than I have with any other software in recent times... I know that there is a learning curve and hope its not too steep and that I don't ask too many stupid questions - but having said that, this may be my first.
I read this thread with interest, because even after reading through about half of the manual I still could find out how to select the render engine to use. All my attempts at doing a render were met with an error that I have no off-line renderer installed. I did (via the TS6 menu -> prefs) find that there are two renderers installed (virtuallight and lightworks). But I am still a little flumoxed by the off-line render issue (and the fact that when I try to render using either of the supplied render engines TS7.6 dies, but that may be because I need to update my video drivers, which I am downloading now).
So I was both intrigued by the discussion about VRay and Dribble. Does this mean that there is no default off-line render engine installed with the default TS v7.6 install?
If so, I suspect that there will be a lot of newcomers that do what I did and load a scene from the library, read enough of the manual to get a sense of what to do and hit the render button and get an error saying that there's no off-line renderer installed. My first reaction was , okay, so that's the catch! You get the modeller, but if you want to render then you need to pay. So I am glad to see that there are lower cost options like dribble/3delight and also VRay for when I get more comfortable with TS and undertand where and how it will add to my workflow and results.
Sorry, this is sounding a bit like a rant now, when what I really wanted to say was g'day - and ask for a little clarification about the render engines. Any guidance most appreciated.
There are two sides to 7.6.
The native renderers to Model side are Lightworks and Virtual Light. They only work in the Model side.
The Workspace side has real time render. It uses DirectX to make objects that are shaded and textured appear instantly rendered. So, one must generally use the shaders that come with the package to see them in real time. Although texture shows up as well.
On the Workspace side there are adjustments that can be made in the panel settings with Bloom, sampling, intensity - just have to check the box and play with the settings.
Also, the node work function, the LE has an infinite number of adjustments that can be made with the dialog boxes in there. That takes some getting used to and experience to play with.
What Vray and Dribble do is to add additional render engines to trueSpace. Both are third party, so must be installed.
Dribble is less expensive, but very powerful and can do real displacement. It uses the 3DDelight engine which has already been mentioned.
Vray by the Chaos group is a lightning quick render that gives fantastic results.
BTW, trueSpace 7.6 can do HDRI. Check out the tutorial videos available for free at caligari.com. HDRI is a hugely popular asset to trueSpace.
If that ain't enough, trueSpace 7.6 has the ability to export PSD layers where lights, geometry layers, channels, shadows and etc. can be adjusted in Photoshop or clone equivalents that handle PSD files. Check out the blog here on the forums. I put an introductory tutorial to PSD files. There are also a couple of video tutorials (the illustration ones) that explain PSD file usage in detail. |
Post by Délé // Jul 24, 2008, 4:06pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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You can render without having to buy anything. Both Lightworks and Virtualight come with 7.6. You have to render from the model side though. By default, when you use the model side to render, it renders with Lightworks. If you right click on the render button on the model side, a panel will pop up in the stack that allows you to change render engines and properties. I did notice that the bridge must be set to auto or on for the panel to pop up though.
13401
If you want to render from the Workspace side, you can render the real-time view, or purchase Vray. Those are the only ways to render from the Workspace side.
hth |
Post by Steinie // Jul 24, 2008, 4:10pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Just to clarify one item, Dribble/3Delight currently only works on the Model Side.
So your options today is RealTime DirectX or VRay (purchased) for WorkSpace side.
P.S Don't overlook RealTime Rendering as most people initially do. Check out my Gallery (link is in my Signature)
and try to figure out which renders are RealTime. (It's the future) |
Post by dazza101 // Jul 24, 2008, 6:19pm
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dazza101
Total Posts: 5
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Thanks for all the advice - it is really helpful.
The one thing that I have realised is that TS operates in a completely different way to the 3D apps I have used before and this will take a little more time to to get a handle on how this programme works and how to start to achieve the fantastic results I see in the galleries. Lots more learning required before spending any money on VRay or other addons. Not that I won't, but until I can model a scene and get a reasonable render from the model side render engines, I am just getting way ahead of myself :) |
Post by Délé // Jul 24, 2008, 6:33pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I've been into the real-time interactive stuff so I haven't rendered offline in some time. Just as a hint to start off though, you might want to try rendering with an IBL (Image Based Light) with Lightworks. I remember getting pretty good results with little work using an IBL. HDRI can be fast and effective too. Those methods can cast pretty good soft shadows creating a more realistic looking render. :) |
Post by Burnart // Jul 24, 2008, 6:41pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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..I have realised is that TS operates in a completely different way to the 3D apps ..
As Yoda would say: "First steps along a new path taken you have." Welcome aboard dazza101 and enjoy.
Rendering is an issue to keep your eyes on but tS is obviously undergoing change so who knows what new output options will become available in the future. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 24, 2008, 9:28pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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G'day all,
.
G'day dazza - I'm picking that you are a fellow Antipodean - there's a few of us here. tS is a LOT of software and has probably got a lot of differences to anything else you've used. This is the right place to come for help though. |
Post by transient // Jul 24, 2008, 9:35pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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If you want to decide whether vray is the right choice for you, you can download Marcel's vray tutorial (http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/newvray.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Master), and sit back and watch him go.
Plenty of good examples of vray's benefits there. |
Post by splinters // Jul 24, 2008, 11:32pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Plenty of non-photorealistic images using Vray in my Little Cloud book;
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3153&highlight=cloud
It simply has a warmth and softness I couldn't get with LW. And the SSS helps too! All images were rendered at 3200x1600 and most took only a few minutes. |
Post by transient // Jul 24, 2008, 11:41pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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There's some very nice work there, Splinters. The sunset picture is my favourite.:) |
Post by splinters // Jul 24, 2008, 11:46pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers Transient, it was my first full project in Vray and is, to date (DSD could be the killer!) the best book I have made and the basis of developing my Buddy World site...:D
My youngest daughter loves the one where he flies over the world. Her eyes light up and you can see her eyes scanning all the little details.
Makes it all worthwhile when you see a kid's face light up through something you created from nothing.
Anyway, back to Vray. |
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