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real time version of Booleans?
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real time version of Booleans? // Roundtable
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 1:43am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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I remember seeing a video clip in the captains blog on how this worked, tried to download it again but it was corrupted...
Has anybody used the real time version of Booleans, where you can move the subtracting object to see how the boolean will look before you do it? I did not find anything in the PDF manual about Workspace Booleans in realtime... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 31, 2008, 1:47am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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You have to check the "preserve history" option on the Boolean panel that comes up when you right click on the boolean tool. The original object will then be encapsulated inside the boolean brick that will be created in your object when you do the boolean. To move the original objects around, you will need to navigate the hierarchy using the arrow keys or the Link Editor. |
Post by Igor K Handel // Jul 31, 2008, 1:55am
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Igor K Handel
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My understanding of it is that you can do the boolean, with an option to save the history. IE do your boolean and if it isn't want you want, the undo option is available as you have a history. Booleans in a some 3D apps DONT have the undo option. Theres also an option to flatten history as you go.
So as far as I am aware you can't see the subtraction actually happen as you drag the second piece into the first, you just see the result.. though its fast, and the undo lets you repeat until you get the result needed. Undo is a BIG plus in booleans, and makes em so easy to use.
IK |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 2:00am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Jack: so when you move the original object, the boolean result will change? Can you move the object that was subtracted or replace it? Will try that option... tnx
Igor: Hmmm, I do recall seeing a realtime change in the video that Roman posted, after the boolean was done, to show the result change in realtime... have a look at one of the early entries about real time version of Booleans... |
Post by Steinie // Jul 31, 2008, 2:08am
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Steinie
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Theuns is correct about seeing the real time change in the video. I saw it too.
So how do you do it? |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 2:10am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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You have to check the "preserve history" option on the Boolean panel that comes up when you right click on the boolean tool. The original object will then be encapsulated inside the boolean brick that will be created in your object when you do the boolean. To move the original objects around, you will need to navigate the hierarchy using the arrow keys or the Link Editor.
Jack, could you elaborate a little more on the "navigate the hierarchy using the arrow keys or the Link Editor"? I had a look but could not see exactly where the "navigate" would happen.
In the link editor, I see 4 groups; space3d, objectname, volumetree and tsscene... Am I at the right place? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 31, 2008, 2:42am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Nope, you went up instead of down. ;)
I think this one is going to require a video. I won't be at my main computer until later tonight so won't be able to post a video until then.
Probably easiest way to select the objects that make up the hierarchy would be with the Scene view. Then you can expand the your object and select the sub objects that way. Once the sub object is selected you can move it around with the widget just like any other object and the boolean will update.
I think you can swap out the booleaned shape bricks and link up new shape nodes inside the boolean brick. You'd need to understand how shape nodes work and be able to do the spaghetti work needed to make that happen though. Probably easier to just make a new boolean if you want to boolean different meshes.
Also there is a boolean mode added to the sweep tool now so you can use sweeps to cut holes on things. ;) |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 2:58am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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AHA! I got it figured...
I was looking for something in the link editor but then when I used the side arrows, I saw it switch between objects in the scene, until I got to my booleaned cube, then I pressed down arrow and saw that I can go sideways between the end result cube and the missing subtracted cube which is now invisible of course... when I move the subtracted invisible cube, I get the realtime boolean adjustment effect... KEWL!!!!!
thanks guys, very easy once you know how :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 31, 2008, 3:06am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Glad you figured it out, Theuns! :) It's definitely a cool feature and very powerful, too. |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 3:12am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Most definately, I use boolean operatins A LOT in my modeling designs and had always been frustrated by the frequent crashes during booleans, this is going to be AWESOME since I don't have to save a copy of each and every object I want to boolean!!!
There is a LOT of nice new features in the new Workspace section that will make modeling SOOO much easier and faster with a lot less frustration... :)
Make me excited to just go and start modeling something right away :D |
Post by brotherx // Jul 31, 2008, 3:13am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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And you can keyframe it!! found what looks like a potential bug though. Changed to intersect so when the sphere passes through the cube, it shows and disappears at the other side...shadows or at least remnant of shadows remain |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 31, 2008, 3:20am
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jamesmc
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I'm sure Jack Edward's video will be more instructive, but here's my playing around with real time booleans (subtraction)
After you do the boolean operation and open up the panel settings (right click on boolean icon) go to the Link Editor (LE) and then click on the Boolean node.
Once you are down a level, click on the object subtracted (in my case the sphere) and move it around as you wish.
Cheesy video and I didn't feel like talking. :D |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 4:37am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Thanks for the video james, just one question though, how do you get to the 'space3d' window if you are in in the 'Anim view'?
Ps. Found the Boolean history in the manual on page 156 of Chapter 3 Model Workspace but it doesn't explain clearly how to get to the invisible subtracted object to move it... |
Post by TomG // Jul 31, 2008, 4:48am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Seems everyone has it figured out! With history kept, you don't just keep undo history (kept even with flatten history mode in booleans), but you keep the two objects separate in a hierarchy. You can then go down into the hierarchy just like with an encapsulated group, and choose to move scale rotate etc the objects in the group. This updates the boolean in real-time as you do it.
This can be keyframed as noted. You can also even change the type of boolean at this point, adding the sphere to the cube rather than subtracting it (just use the booleans panel to choose a new boolean type).
Adding more booleans gives a tree like hierarchy that you can navigate using the arrow keys (or the LE) to tunnel down into the boolean history.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Jul 31, 2008, 4:55am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Tom,
About the shadow thing in the scene I attached - want me to put something in bugs? |
Post by Stem // Jul 31, 2008, 5:13am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Well,... if they ever get around to adding fillets to the workspace, I hope they do it so I can add fillets correctly to boolean objects, as currently it can still be a nightmare.
- Stem |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 31, 2008, 5:25am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Thanks for the video james, just one question though, how do you get to the 'space3d' window if you are in in the 'Anim view'?
Ps. Found the Boolean history in the manual on page 156 of Chapter 3 Model Workspace but it doesn't explain clearly how to get to the invisible subtracted object to move it...
Just click on 2D (the letters in the LE) Anim is 4D.
Or one could configure there workspace set up with separate boxes I guess.
Once you get to the LE, drill down the nodes until you find boolean. Click on the orange rectangle, it drills down to the next level of nodes.
Then select either the booleaned object or the base object to move.
You can change the boolean or you can resize, rotate, change the color, texture and etc once in LE. |
Post by Electric Jim // Jul 31, 2008, 5:28am
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused for a few moments about how to access the Boolean's sub-objects to manipulate them. I posted a suggestion here (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5840) a few days ago that some information along these lines be added to the manual.
<Electric Jim pats himself on the shoulder, pulls a muscle, winces, and gets back to work.> :) |
Post by brotherx // Jul 31, 2008, 5:38am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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It's not as bad as trying to make something temporarily invisible.
Try this: http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6023 |
Post by TomG // Jul 31, 2008, 6:08am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Oh yes, I see what you mean on the intersection - if you could post that as a bug, that would be good, thanks!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Stem // Jul 31, 2008, 6:31am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Hi Tom,
Oh yes, I see what you mean on the intersection - if you could post that as a bug, that would be good, thanks!Are you refering to my post concerning the fillet after boolean?, or another post?
Regards,
- Steve |
Post by TomG // Jul 31, 2008, 6:45am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The shadows with intersections bug - I've posted the bug to the beta thread too btw. I thought yours was just a request for a fillet tool on the workspace side, rather than a specific bug? Do post details if I'm mistaken!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 8:51pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Just click on 2D (the letters in the LE) Anim is 4D.
I only see 1D and 4D for some reason??? Don't know why though... |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 8:54pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Well,... if they ever get around to adding fillets to the workspace, I hope they do it so I can add fillets correctly to boolean objects, as currently it can still be a nightmare.
- Stem
Can't you fillet it in Model space and then use it as a boolean object in Work space? |
Post by trueBlue // Jul 31, 2008, 9:02pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I only see 1D and 4D for some reason??? Don't know why though...
Load your layout again should restore the Dimensional aspects. There should be 1D, 2D, 3D, and 4D. This is known bug and it happens when selecting the orange triangle when in 1D, 3D or 4D. |
Post by theuns // Jul 31, 2008, 11:34pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Thanks for the info trueBlue, and how do I load the layout again? |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 1, 2008, 12:11am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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From the Tabs at the top of the main trueSpace window or you can load the Layouts - Configurations library from the Library Browser. |
Post by Stem // Aug 1, 2008, 3:08am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Can't you fillet it in Model space and then use it as a boolean object in Work space?I can do that, but there should be no need, the fillets should fillet correctly.
I will wait for another release to see if correct filleting is added, all the back and forth over the bridge gives me an headache.
At least I can use V-Ray now.
- Stem |
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