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7.6 printed manual
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
7.6 printed manual // Roundtable
Post by denden // Aug 2, 2008, 4:27am
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denden
Total Posts: 14
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Will there be a printed 7.6 manual available to buy?
Thanks.
Dennis Hallinan |
Post by Steinie // Aug 2, 2008, 4:48am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Caligari has already stated that they will no longer print manuals. PDF files and Video tutorials are their current plans. |
Post by kena // Aug 2, 2008, 4:56am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Correct. For a printed manual, you will need to take the PDF files to your local copy store and have them print them.
Originally, printing the manual for everyone would have added to the expense of the program.
Look at the bright side though...
With no printed manual, many trees are saved. With no CD, there is no box to package it in and saves more trees. So just go outside and enjoy the extra air! :p |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 2, 2008, 9:21am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Bah! Trees are a renewable resource! :cool: |
Post by Emma // Aug 2, 2008, 9:39am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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Trees are a renewable resource!
In theory,
- measuring in times the primeval forest needs hundreds of years to grow up again after all it's trees have been ccut
that's also theory
- because the environment already changes shortly after the trees have been cut, means animals, insects, mushroooms, bacteria, just everything you find in a wild forest and that depends on each other.
So every book not printed is OK
Well, we can model the wild forest in trueSpace and place it on VirtualEarth so future generations may have idea what it looked like.. This would indeed be an interesting project, building different imes of earth, first of course the period where dinosaurus where all around :D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 2, 2008, 9:42am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Must just be a problem for Europe, etc., here in the US they plant more than are cut down. And the lumber companies rotate their fields. Helps them stay in business. ;)
We've actually got more forest in the US now than when the settlers came... lol. :p
Besides if you don't cut 'em down and clear out the deadwood you get forest fires... something that's been a bit of a problem here in the US since the greenies took over all our forest parks... |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 2, 2008, 10:04am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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We've actually got more forest in the US now than when the settlers came..
Maybe thats why its so hard to spot a "dinosaurus"... the cousin of the Dyouthinkhesaurus? ;) they're hiding in the forests eating all the damn mushrooms?
Come to think of it it's been ages since I saw a bacteria shop in our high street..
IK :p |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 2, 2008, 10:27am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Since there appear to be skeptics in the audience, I did a few google searches:
Here's a fun little John Stossel production from ABC:
http://www.cfact.org/site/view_article.asp?idCategory=5&idarticle=457
Heck even the UN admits it:
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2007/1000506/index.html
"Europe and North America showed net increases in forest area over the reporting period."
:p
And more from the UN:
http://www.unep.org/GEO/geo3/english/203.htm
But since we all know that the US is the evil empire, growing trees is all part of our grand plan to increase the temperature of the earth:
https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/news_releases/2005/NR-05-12-04.html
(Guess we'd better start cutting them down again. :p) |
Post by Emma // Aug 2, 2008, 10:28am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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....clear out the deadwood you get forest fires....
yes, that worked already here in Europe for hundreds of years, but everything has two sides to look at as soon as natural turns to business, under comercial interests. I invested some research into that
http://www.karensgen.com/buch/germany/grinderwaldforest.php
We used to have oak, beech and lime trees, but in those days they starrted to change it. Today therefore we have the comercialised pine forests with all the disadvantages like fire hazards, breaking in storms or masses of little insects who just destroy them.
No, it is OK to look for a clean environment for your programs but in nature you have to look ahead over generations to figure out if you should really destroy something or not. Be honest, used is only the comercial interest view, that was not differnet over here. So I don't think it is typical Eropeans sight, our country is just much smaller so we get to know already the effects much earlyer than in those countries like America, Africa or Asia, they will get this sight just later. But it will reach them, that's for sure and in California it looks that a change already begins, too late already. |
Post by RAYMAN // Aug 2, 2008, 10:42am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Funny that we have lots of new high tech equipment but
when it comes to electronic paper for pdf files we are still miles away
from acceptance and realy thin models ...:confused:
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 2, 2008, 11:14am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yeah, I saw that argument Emma, but the figures I saw show over 90% old growth forests remain in the US. And with Americans wanting a diversity of wood products (wood flooring is very popular again ;)) we should see a good diversity of commercial planting. Personally I don't like pine trees either, but they are indigenous to the region and are very sustainable for harvesting for timber. |
Post by KeithC // Aug 2, 2008, 11:21am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Some people like to still curl up with a manual, without having to sit in front of a monitor. Some people don't have dual monitors, and don't like flipping back and forth between screens. At least they have an option (if not an expensive one) to print the manual for themselves.
-Keith |
Post by moogaloonie // Aug 2, 2008, 12:34pm
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moogaloonie
Total Posts: 64
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In theory,
- measuring in times the primeval forest needs hundreds of years to grow up again after all it's trees have been ccut
that's also theory
- because the environment already changes shortly after the trees have been cut, means animals, insects, mushroooms, bacteria, just everything you find in a wild forest and that depends on each other.
So every book not printed is OK
Well, we can model the wild forest in trueSpace and place it on VirtualEarth so future generations may have idea what it looked like.. This would indeed be an interesting project, building different imes of earth, first of course the period where dinosaurus where all around :D
I measure waste differently I guess. Every day I get some junk coupons in the mail, and every other week some crap form my bank. Every few months I get a phonebook that I'm lucky to use once. I see stacks of the state entertainment guide and student papers being tossed out constantly. But oh no, I can't have a hard copy of something I may read for hours over the course of years. I have to notice some correlation between programs I have gotten proficient with (early versions of Broadcast, tS versions 4 and 5, Posers 5-7, Various old paint progs) and those that I have bought that I have barely even used (have installed 3 versions of zBrush and only barely attempted the tutorials).
The problem with pdfs is simply that they require a computer to read and I already have a hard enough time staying out of forums and away from ebay and youtube to get work done like I once used to. I got way more work done when my computer didn't connect to anything but a monitor and the printed manual stayed in the bathroom where it belonged.
Someday everything will be on one machine and it will fail without a backup. Every piece of literature and music without a corresponding hardcopy will cease to exist. People will notice they have been reading the same stories over and over for centuries, and that music, after having steadily improved for thousands of years, became quite horrible in a very short time. And they will all have to go back to using tS 7.5. |
Post by Matski007 // Aug 2, 2008, 12:40pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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big whoop lol, sorry but replanting a few trees doesn't make up for a lifetime of raping the Earth, and with all the crap in the US media I wouldn't be taking too much of it seriously, honestly the media and government have the US right in the palm of their hands, and all the while its citizens believe they are free and such, imprinting the belief that any hint at the idea of freely available health care and such is purely communism and thus destroy any freedom they have.
Sorry for the rant, but please, it isn't just the US's fault, almost every nation is to blame, and all the seems to get done about it is shifting the problem onto someone else e.g. China.
Say no to printed manuals! lol totally unnecessary. |
Post by moogaloonie // Aug 2, 2008, 1:10pm
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moogaloonie
Total Posts: 64
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big whoop lol, sorry but replanting a few trees doesn't make up for a lifetime of raping the Earth, and with all the crap in the US media I wouldn't be taking too much of it seriously, honestly the media and government have the US right in the palm of their hands, and all the while its citizens believe they are free and such, imprinting the belief that any hint at the idea of freely available health care and such is purely communism and thus destroy any freedom they have.
Sorry for the rant, but please, it isn't just the US's fault, almost every nation is to blame, and all the seems to get done about it is shifting the problem onto someone else e.g. China.
Say no to printed manuals! lol totally unnecessary.
Waste is proportional to disuse. A manual that isn't read is a waste of paper, shipping and space. A manual that is throughly studied for a long period of time is not such a waste. Are we going to get rid of textbooks literature and comic books next? While still packing a fistful of ketchup, salt, napkins and a receipt into every bag containing a small bag of fries? Seems like misuse is the biggest part of waste to me.
Maybe someone could start a company around just printing wiki documents to hardcopy. Then you could get a reasonably current manual whenever you wanted it without the waste of providing them to those who don't need one. |
Post by trueSpaced // Aug 2, 2008, 1:27pm
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trueSpaced
Total Posts: 544
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Are we going to get rid of textbooks literature
Laptops...:D
comic books
Internet...:D
ketchup
Ketchup packets are plastic....:p
salt, napkins
Neccessities :p
receipt
No point in receipts; one day soon it'll all be computerized.:D
small bag of fries
Mmmmmmm.... French fries.... :p
All-in-all, I agree that the majority of paper used is waste. Technology replaces the need for most of it.
Back on topic.... I think Caligari should offer a hard copy of a manual, but not include it. I personally can't stand manuals; I don't read them at all, so that would be a waste to me and anyone else who is like me. But if someone orders it specially, they are more than likely going to spend the time reading it.
-TrueSpaced:banana: |
Post by KeithC // Aug 2, 2008, 1:50pm
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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The problem I see is the cost, versus the benefit. Ordering 1,000 (gaining a group discount) copies of the Manual for TrueSpace 7.6 would mean an amount that was significantly less than having your local Office Max print it for you. But only ordering 50 or so, would increase the price for the consumer (including shipping).
I know that Lightwave offers their manuals as both hardcopy as well as digital....but the digital version has a "printable version" available that is print resolution quality. You simply either pony up for enough ink cartridges...or submit to the Office Max scenerio.
The way I see it....unless their is a MAJOR demand for a hard copy manual (for sale), the costs outway the benefits for Caligari. Of course there is also the whole PR thing of saving the Planet. ;)
-Keith |
Post by spacekdet // Aug 2, 2008, 2:00pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Wait a minute... "raping the Earth"?
I guess that explains the sand in the Vaseline.
I'd buy a paper manual if it were available.
I prefer a paper book over an electronic one any day of the week.
It's easier to read, more portable, plus I can't stand having an incomplete collection of anything, and right now my bookshelf is missing the latest tS manual.
Part of the fun of a new program is unboxing it, (yeah, I saved all the boxes, too) and smelling the fresh ink.
Somehow smelling Kinko's just isn't the same. |
Post by jamesmc // Aug 2, 2008, 2:32pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Here is Kansas, in the 19th century, there were hardly any trees. Settlers brought trees with them for viewing, protection, shelter and food (fruit trees.)
Now Kansas has its own mini-forests, tree lined streets, country side dotted with groves of trees.
An example of tree regrowth in the U.S. would be the Yellowstone fire, remarkable recovery in a short time.
Just in my life time, I remember new trees being planted that are now 50 foot giants. |
Post by Matski007 // Aug 2, 2008, 2:33pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=16184
the future in books? I think so
A TS7 manual would certainly get its place on my toilet bookshelf, I prefer to read on the toilet, probably information you dont want to know, but honestly try it if u havent, its great! lol |
Post by Matski007 // Aug 2, 2008, 2:37pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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LOVE TREES! lol, trees are great, we should have as many of them as possible in our streets and stuff, let them take over, green is the most visible spectrum of colour to our eyes (if that makes sense), generally it is a pleasing colour to the mind and soothing, rather than blank pavestone, total hippy ranting here sorry. |
Post by TigreStripe // Aug 2, 2008, 3:21pm
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TigreStripe
Total Posts: 75
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I figure as long as you can maintain a balance then it will all fall into place.
Balance is the key to all.
It's just one more thing for people to argue about. Politics, Coke or Pepsi, envoirnment or buisness, people or buisness, Mac vs PC, printed vs electronic, clothed or naked... take your pick. People choose a cause, right, wrong or in the middle and then fight to the death to defend it because it is their cause.
Of course, if two people of opposing sides can come to an agreement, just two then there is some hope for humanity.
I would pay for a printed manual. Taking it to a printer here is asking for over a $100. Almost the same for me to print it out on my printer. I printed out 2 pages to one and had to refill my ink tanks and that was bout $75. |
Post by transient // Aug 2, 2008, 3:37pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Perhaps Caligari could use lulu or something similar. There's a defintite lack of printed material for ts. Considering a truespace book could ship with legal and commercial version of the software used, it may be a winner. |
Post by sj41 // Aug 2, 2008, 3:45pm
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sj41
Total Posts: 31
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I would happily pay for a printed manual. I work on a laptop and there just isn't room on the screen for tS and a manual. As Matski007 said, it makes great bathroom reading and I can't take my laptop into the bathroom (without getting strange looks from my wife). Besides, the current manual is cumbersome to use. |
Post by frootee // Aug 2, 2008, 4:31pm
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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well I guess a laptop on the loo would be even more cumbersome to use eh? hehe.
Well, you can print directly to your black and white laser printer for the cost of a paper ream I suppose ($2.99), plus the toner required; set the printer to 'El Cheapo' mode. And it's literally fresh off the press. Can't get any fresher than that! That'd be cheaper than using an inkjet printer.
The idea behind soft copies only is cost and updates (theoretically). I say theoretically because I think I saw one update to the 7.5/7.51 docs.
I prefer a soft version because the only time I'll refer to it is if I'm using truespace at the time. A reference manual on the 'porcelain throne' doesn't help me much if the PC is, well, in another room. :)
Just my two. |
Post by jamesmc // Aug 2, 2008, 4:46pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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.....................:d |
Post by KeithC // Aug 2, 2008, 5:57pm
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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A reference manual on the 'porcelain throne' doesn't help me much if the PC is, well, in another room.
Uh....then take it with you to the other room? ;) |
Post by rjeff // Aug 2, 2008, 6:03pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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If trees could talk what would they say?..."hey be kind..don't cut us down..don't start fires...but if they screamed and talked all the time would we cut them down anyway?...and just to poke the fire...screw the carribou..drill in Alaska!! |
Post by Emma // Aug 2, 2008, 9:30pm
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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Shouldn't have said anything abouut trees I guess, always starts a long discussion. :D
As an older guy I learned from kindergarden onwards to read in books and not on a screen. For trueSpace 7.5 I did the following because ordering it with a printed manual was too expensive because then a high amount of customs would have to be paid. So how did I solve it :D:D:D
- bought a Canon IP 4000 printer shiped from somewhere on this globe to germany
- bought three packs of paper (500 sheets per package) where the trees were cut in South America, the paper then was produced in China and after shiping it to germany I had to invest 4$ per package
- bought two sets of cheap ink, produced somewhere on this planet, shiped to germany and I had to pay in sum another 12 $
Advantage of this was that I have the whole manual in A4 size, full color and it is easy to insert extra pages or exchange any of them if necessary
Meanwhile I just print out what I want do study in depth if it is at least more than 5 pages long. What I still always do though is printing the index if there is one.
Also development docs get printed out because there is often the necessity for adding remarks.
In sum I guess behaviour will change because youngsters get used to read online manuals and we older ones at the moment are the fossiles between the ages.
Nevertheless we have a responsibility for our children and grandchildren to come. |
Post by kena // Aug 2, 2008, 9:42pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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lol - didn't know I was going to spark a debate here!
Anyway, back off topic. The tree-huggers did indeed cause our current problem with forest fires. By preventing them. Yellowstone showed us that if we allow forest fires to run their course, then the likelyhood of more forest fires is reduced. But then it takes more manpower to keep them from getting into your home, so a solution was put out to clear out the underbrush manually. Too much manpower there too. There is no easy solution when civilization and nature mix.
Back on topic: I really don't think we could get 1,000 people who would request a manual that would be out of date before it was sent out, so your best bet is print yourself, or get it done at the copy store. |
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