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Skeleton Joints ... Limits and orientation!
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Skeleton Joints ... Limits and orientation! // Roundtable
Post by aidanodr // Aug 6, 2008, 3:28pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Guys,
Not sure if the subject explains properly - BUT here goes.
So you have a regular skeleton built. Now you enable the Joint Limits Tool. Next you click a joint and create the joint limit envelope around that joint. This is all fine.
In my case I have one bone done this characters back. If I click the joint at the end of the 'spine' ( in Joint Limit Mode ) I notice the ENVELOPE is facing 'downward'. If I click the joint at the top of the spine I notice the joint ENVELOPE is facing 'upward'.
I select the joint at the top of the spine and use the widget rotations - all is fine again - the neck/head tilts left / right etc as one expects. Now I select the joint at the BOTTOM of the spine bone and use that joints widget rotations. Here I notice that this joint actually tilts/rotates the rest of the body BELOW the waist. The legs swing left to right for example. Here I would have expected this joint to be in control of the body ABOVE the waist so the upper body swings left and right for example.
Is their a way to 'invert' the control of the joint at the bottom of the spine? Maybe I have rigged it incorrectly in this area? Any ideas? Do you guys understand my meanderings above?
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by RichLevy // Aug 6, 2008, 3:53pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Is this the first joint you placed on the character? That joint should not be animated. It is best to bury it in the pelvis or someo ther area where it will not be used. This is the advise of the developer's...
HTH
Rich |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 6, 2008, 4:06pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Rich,
Yes - as per the manual tutes. Start at the waist with first joint ( base of Spine ), move up to neck, arms etc. Then select this joint once more to go downward for the legs.
So I see - we have an undocumented type thing? Start with a horizontal bone from outside the characters back perhaps? Acts as a handle for the whole skeleton then?
Interestingly enough - if you look at the default froggy scene from the scenes library and make the skeleton visible, this skeleton DOES not have that 'handle bone' as you have suggested?
Aidan |
Post by RichLevy // Aug 6, 2008, 4:20pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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By my understanding of anatomy :) admittedly it is not that great lol, I believe the pelvis and the hip act differently. I know what you see in the examples and I do it myself sometimes. If you want the joint to not behave differently as you describe, I am offering a work around which would allow you to do that.
As far as I know there is no way to make the joint limit widget to reverse as you would like.
Is that helpful?
Rich |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 6, 2008, 4:34pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Yes Rich, Thank you,
I just tried a skeleton build on its own. This works.
Its a little bit un-intuitive. Also when you are creating branches for the legs from the joint at the bottom of the spine you seem to end up with extra joints, some of which one can delete to tidy things up,
Aidan |
Post by RichLevy // Aug 6, 2008, 4:45pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Yes Rich, Thank you,
I just tried a skeleton build on its own. This works.
Its a little bit un-intuitive. Also when you are creating branches for the legs from the joint at the bottom of the spine you seem to end up with extra joints, some of which one can delete to tidy things up,
Aidan
You'll get the hang of it quick, TS bones are pretty forgiving... and fast to set up in basic characters.
Good luck!
Rich |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 7, 2008, 12:54am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Aiden
I did 3 short vid tuts about this very issue. Posted em in the new user thread within the last 2 weeks.
Check em out, they might explain whats going on and clarify whats actually happening and what control you have over it.
Cheers
IK |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 7, 2008, 3:51am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Igor,
This is the thread:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6096
I had already went there and tried to download those 3 vids. Unfortunately - no go. It doesnt work. The file share site counts down, gives you a link and then eventually just bombs out.
If you can sort OR upload again it would be appreciated,
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 7, 2008, 3:58am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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ok will recheck now give me 5 mins |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 7, 2008, 4:04am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Aiden have just checked. The share host server seems to be having a problem with ANY dload right now. Might be worth leaving a bit and trying later.
Meantime I'll email em and try to get it sorted, maybe its maintainance day or something... Never had any probs with em b4
Failing that if you have a hotmail share folder you can PM me the address and I put files in there for ya?
IK |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 7, 2008, 6:31am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi IK,
Just got those, yes that was my issue. Thanks for those videos, they have solved it,
Appreciate this,
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 8, 2008, 3:57pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Another thing I forgot to mention. How does one detach a skeleton from the mesh? I realize that the Attach Skin to Skeleton tool is a toggle tool, but whenever I try it doesnt seem to work.
So hints tips and how please anyone?
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by mrbones // Aug 8, 2008, 4:05pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Try making sure your skeleton is not selected and you have the top level of your objects actor selected,
Is this a multi part mesh?
Color of mesh when unattached to skin will indicate skin detachment. |
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