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Character Animation 101
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Character Animation 101 // Roundtable
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 3:08am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Guys,
I am thinking a message like this may be useful. Particularly for Character Animation in 7.6 - covering Boning, Skinning, IK and the like.
If any one is ahead in these matters would it be possible to add any observations, hints, tips.
Of particular interest I am sure would be setting up a walkcycle, how best to do this etc - step by step if possible.
Having had a look at Crazy Bob - What is a little difficult to figure out is what IK Locks are on or off for what IK Handles. One selects a handle and then enables a lock or locks for it, then select another handle and these locks are still GREEN ( enabled ). It is very difficult to see what locks are associated with which Handle. But of course maybe I am missing the complete point - hence me starting this thread.
Definitely a step by step walk cycle setup tute would be invaluable. Even done through numerous messages here.
Please keep this thread FOCUSED on CHARACTER ANIMATION only.
I also would VOTE for a seperate section at this forum for CHARACTER ANIMATION - would you?
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by Délé // Aug 10, 2008, 4:06am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I think Frog should make a video for tS. :)
The 11 second club is a good place to learn general character animation. They used to post video critiques for the winners. I don't see them anymore, not sure if they still post them. They might still have them on the site somewhere though. Those videos were VERY informative because you could see how a pro would walk through refining the animation.
http://www.11secondclub.com/
Also, "The Animator's Survival Kit" by Richard Williams is a great book. Definitely worth buying if you want to get into character animation. |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 5:04am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Dele,
In my case i am OK with the Generals of Character Animation - I have doodled with same in Blender, Realsoft 3D and Lightwave. I suppose I should have been more specific - Character Animation Truespace 7.6 Workspace style.
In my experience most apps have their little foibles - must be the same for Truespace, so just putting it out there for some who may have already travelled this road to pop up a few signposts and notice boards with regard to any Gotchas in this process in TS.
I think IK ( the User ) eluded to such things in another post comparing TS to other apps where Char Anim is concerned.
The area that I am a little confused by is the IK locks and usage. I realise the manual goes into this but I found the explanation a little abstract. Nailing the feet to the floor. Proper Skeleton Structure - best practice - with regard to hierarchy of bones and joints. Again IK has some helpful flash tutes on this, but maybe a deeper more advanced exploration where a fully rigged character is concerned ready for a walk cycle.
Things in a Walk Cycle - how best to stop foot slippage, Is the walk Cycle done 'on the spot' OR is their a procedure similar to the new modifiers in Blender where one does a cycle with the character ACTUALLY moving forward using a spline as a guide. Do you have to bend the knees forward slightly in the default pose to instruct the IK system as to the direction of these joints.
Stuff like that
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by RichLevy // Aug 10, 2008, 5:15am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Hi Dele,
In my case i am OK with the Generals of Character Animation - I have doodled with same in Blender, Realsoft 3D and Lightwave. I suppose I should have been more specific - Character Animation Truespace 7.6 Workspace style.
In my experience most apps have their little foibles - must be the same for Truespace, so just putting it out there for some who may have already travelled this road to pop up a few signposts and notice boards with regard to any Gotchas in this process in TS.
I think IK ( the User ) eluded to such things in another post comparing TS to other apps where Char Anim is concerned.
Cheers
Aidan
It is available to a point in the manual... if you want to go further than the basics that are mentioned in the manual, please be more specific to what you want to do. There are many here that have played around with different aspects of TS character animation and would be happy to help.
This way we all can benefit by their experience and than build upon it for everyone to benefit from.
HTH
Rich
[edit]
:O well silly me... you were pretty specific :D sorry about that. Let's see what Frog has up his sleeve, some of these things I am still catching up on. Others I can add what I have learned... |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 5:19am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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It is available to a point in the manual... if you want to go further than the basics that are mentioned in the manual, please be more specific to what you want to do. There are many here that have played around with different aspects of TS character animation and would be happy to help.
This way we all can benefit by their experience and than build upon it for everyone to benefit from.
HTH
Rich
Thanks Rich,
I was updating that post when you posted - I think I have some areas for people to chew on now added, read it again??? . I reiterate that a guide to setting up a walkcycle - teased out here - would be useful?
Out now with her in doors :) off to cinema, check in when back
Aidan |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 10, 2008, 5:52am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Aidan you spelt eluded wrong...... Should have been Deluded lol
Must admit I never had to test/grapple so hard as this in other apps to REALLY work out the logic of what is happening in the examples, and why when I try to recreate the examples, frequently the outcome is very different. I suspect it may be partially down to so many user variables that may have been tweaked prior to trying to recreate and follow an example. Am seriously considering hitting the return to default button and starting from scratch. putting it off though as I have way too much stuff tweaked. Would take yonks to get back here... even with backups.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION... How to know which locks an IK handle activates......
Get your example rig, select the skeleton, select the ik tool. Now with the IK tool activated click on the example's ik handles... the locks it specifically turns on WILL now show up as green. It IS a pain that the colour remains unchanged in everyday ik use, apart from when manually setting a lock on or off in dynapose. A visual cue of lock status in any mode would be my ideal!!
Oh I agree about the Character thread would be useful to keep all the gems in one easy to find place.. Not just for us, but for others that no doubt will join the fun later!
Cheers IK
PS see my thread in Tech section " Grab joint rotation"..... it's doing my nut in! |
Post by 3dfrog // Aug 10, 2008, 6:45am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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We usually hold the animator's club in shared space on Saturdays. I did not hold it the last two weeks because I have been very busy. I promise we will have it this coming Saturday, and we can work out issues people are having with ik and can go through walk cycles. I can meet with people individually, shoot me a pm, and we can set up a time. I am not a super pro but am pretty good with the ts bones. If we put our heads together maybe we can get issues people are having worked out. Then we can post the results here. |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 10:19am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Lads,
I realise the Animators Club is at shared space, but I think it is on Caligari Time which may not suit people from different parts of the world. A definite idea that would work is an Animation section at this forum. This will fit in with everyones schedule. Maybe even break this into Animation AND Character Animation - some people may only want to animate objects with keyframes and not get involved with bones etc.
IK - I have to say I am also having some difficulty with the solidity of the skeleton attach / detach - it seems to be quiet intermittent. I think it was Rich who gave me info on this in another thread but be that as it may - for me - its results are intermittent - work sometimes - others not.
Personally I think their is a very robust skeleton system in TS, it doesnt break easily and on the basics it keeps it together - so it is worth sticking with.
Aidan |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 10:24am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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ALSO,
Just so people arent turned off by the possibility that this seems OH too much work. If somebody has ideas - 3DFrog :) - all one would need to illustrate these ideas is the bare skeleton, no character. This would be quicker and simpler I think
Aidan |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 11:26am
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Guys,
One thing I would suggest if you have been used to working with Skeletons in other apps is to change the Skeleton Shape to WIRE DIAMOND instead of the SOLID DEFAULT.
Aidan |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 10, 2008, 12:25pm
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Don't get me wrong, I have every confidence it's more than likely me that's goofing it up rather than Ts :D.. Just a slightly different way of working than I'm used to I suspect. I sure wouldn't be putting in the hours I have if I wasn't convinced of the potential for really great character anim possibilities within TS
Aidan from what I have seen the character anim side of TS is a relative minority sport compared to other apps, so far anyway. I reckon it will grow in time though, especially as TS tools get more tweaks etc. For what it's worth I doubt there is enough call to seperate the character from anim threads at this point. Just my 2c worth, I' just a new blowin.
Not sure if you are aware that the shared spaces are available 24/7 365 so if you ever want to get together it doesn't have to be specifically at the animators meeting. I asked about this very subject only a week ago or so.
Ref your attach/ detach being intermittent. Not had this problem so confident with the right help thats easily sorted. A very odd time it appears not to have attached, in that the skin doesn't flex when joints are rotated. But if you drag the complete skel the mesh follows, so it is attached. At 3DFrogs suggestion saving at this point and then restarting TS seems to return things to normal again with working character as expected. A minor quirk which no doubt will be ironed out.
The wirediamond was suggested last week but I think I have been spoilt by the nice default look lol spoilt now don't want to go back :p If needs must I guess I will do what I gotta do, but meantime I use the limits tool to check the heirarchy flow.
IK |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 12:36pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi IK,
Yip am aware the shared space is up 24/7 365, I suppose I was just refering to the Animators Club meet.
The one thing about the Wire Diamond is it gives another bit of info about the Skeleton. When in this 'look' you can see the first bone created is sort of two bones with no joint between.
A meet in the shared space .. good plan, say when and where, still getting my head around that space
Aidan |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 10, 2008, 12:39pm
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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I presume you work for a living so pick an evening to suit you and we give it a whirl.
IK |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 12:42pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Yip I do,
Probably tomorrow night / tuesday night - 8pm gmt?
OR if you are free at the moment - now on is fine
Aidan |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 10, 2008, 12:55pm
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Am in Sheffield so GMT here. Brain tired tonite after a full day's studying watching vids/ reading tuts. 8pm tomorrow will be spot on. Will pm ya shortly before to sort out connecting bla bla.
Only actually been at one meeting myself so all a bit new. IF you have any voice software let me know which prog and we can talk realtime. Or if you have a mic I can stick up a share of some very old but serviceble freebie voice software. Up to you. Failing that we just use chatbox and type. Server in Caligari land so was getting up to a max of about 1 min delay in text at last meeting, as opposed to voice which would be local between us, as I could host the voice app server.
IK |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 12:59pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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K,
Yip - Have a nice big AKG Mic I use to record Vocals with. Closest at mo re voice stuff is SKYPE, but can install any other software if necessary at your suggestion.
Seems the shared space aint working at the moment anyway? If you can confirm out of curiosity at mo great.
Aidan |
Post by Heidi // Aug 10, 2008, 1:18pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Um...voice isn't implemented in shared space. Just thought I'd let you know. :) |
Post by aidanodr // Aug 10, 2008, 1:30pm
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aidanodr
Total Posts: 90
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Hi Heidi,
Yip I know, thats why we talking about using a third party voice app at the same time - eg Skype,
Cheers
Aidan |
Post by transient // Aug 10, 2008, 2:30pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Aidan from what I have seen the character anim side of TS is a relative minority sport compared to other apps, so far anyway.
The rate of animators to stills guys in any app I know of is maybe a hundred to one, at least it seems that way. There are a few animators here, which is great for ts.
Maybe it appears there's more specialist animators for packages like maya, simply because there's many more users. Plus it's used everywhere in production, which doesn't hurt.
I'm going to have a crack at the animation tools in ts when I've finished my latest illo's. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 10, 2008, 11:38pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Transient makes a good point here - also keep in mind that tS char anim tools have been ... er ... somewhat flakey historically. It's only with the new architecture and particularly the latest release that the anim tools have started to get quite slick.
You asked about walk cycles - I've spent more time trying to perfect a decent walk cycle than I care to remember and still haven't quite got it down. Search the forums for "walk cycle' and you'll get some info.
My tip FWIW is to use BVH compatible skeles for your humanoid characters - this allows you to use BVH derived anim clips as a basic starting point for your actions. You can add as much extra KeyFramed motion as you want.
This has worked for me to some extent. |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 20, 2008, 12:21am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Going to start collecting useful links and tuts specific to rigging / character anim in this thread.
To start the ball rolling heres a link with a brief and easy to understand explaination of FK and IK and how they evolved.
First few pages are relevant, the rest deals more specifically with blender stuff, although some of the background techniques may be useful in the future.
IK.
FK / IK what are they and how they have evolved
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34641/Introduction-to-Rigging?query2=face%20rig%20tutorial%20in%20max |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 20, 2008, 2:59am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Cool stuff Iggy!!;)
Googling "Walk Cycles brings up a wealth of tutorial info including this helpful reference (http://www.biomotionlab.ca/Demos/BMLwalker.html) and I'll be posting some other goodies a bit later - short of time right now..... |
Post by J90 // Aug 20, 2008, 6:19pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Has anybody made a decent walk cycle for the default characters such as "crazy bob"?
Is this thread for people that rig their own characters? |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 20, 2008, 9:10pm
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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J90
Welcome aboard!
The character animation end of TS has a small but keen band of users that are currently working with the animation and rigging as it stands. It's a relatively new addition to TS capabilities and so is early days for everyone.
Feel free to use this post for rigging and character related info, questions etc.
There is a TS patch in the works so with a bit of luck it will address some of the teething problems we are are going through.
There is another thread in the Tech thread "skeleton questions", or words to that effect, which you might like to follow, as we push to pool our early experiences and share tips on what works and what doesn't. Some users have rigged in other apps, and some haven't so your welcome to join the fun.
IK |
Post by J90 // Aug 21, 2008, 12:01pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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J90
Welcome aboard!
The character animation end of TS has a small but keen band of users that are currently working with the animation and rigging as it stands. It's a relatively new addition to TS capabilities and so is early days for everyone.
Feel free to use this post for rigging and character related info, questions etc.
There is a TS patch in the works so with a bit of luck it will address some of the teething problems we are are going through.
There is another thread in the Tech thread "skeleton questions", or words to that effect, which you might like to follow, as we push to pool our early experiences and share tips on what works and what doesn't. Some users have rigged in other apps, and some haven't so your welcome to join the fun.
IK
Thanks Ik,
Although I am not very good at animating or rigging I could do my best to join in on the fun as I try to animate. :)
I am still just trying to get used to TS |
Post by J90 // Aug 21, 2008, 8:36pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Earlier I took crazy bob and used Wizard's wonderful foot jig and tried to get the basic foot motion. I lined up the feet and got them into position for the first pose/walk cycle. used basic Ik handle and joint movement. I then made a key frame. To check and make sure it will work before I spent a lot of time to get the animation completed I hit the "Play animation button". I didn't get the same pose the torso was lower and the right foot was further back and lower too.
I will attach the scene file to see if anybody has the same issue as me.
(Version 7.6)
-----------------------
After loading play the animation or click on the "previous keyframe" button.
If the pose stays the same as the current pose then I am the only one having these issues. :(
First Image is the actual pose.
Second image is after clicking on play or previous keyframe |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 21, 2008, 9:34pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Personally I'm not a big fan of the Crazy Bob character as his physical dimensions are too cartoony for taste - very lng legs and so forth.
Anyway, I've had a quick look at your scene and I think the problem lies with the Joint Limits which are already set on CG's skeleton. I've only had a quick look but I think that may be the issue.
One of the key things with the method I've used is that no joint limits are used at all - which has obvious advantages and disadvantages.
But let me do some more playing around and I'll see what I can find. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 21, 2008, 11:11pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Making a further tutorial on this - please stand by. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 22, 2008, 1:32am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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So I started this 3 hours ago during which time I've had my dinner, washed the dishes and typed up this post while running though the steps it describes.
OK here's what I did:
At frame one I clicked the Set Default Pose to return Bob to the standard “Hell of a way to spend Easter” Pose! I used the Object Info to set him at 0 in the X and Y coordinates – this can simplify things if later his pose wanders from the centre point. I recorded this Keyframe at Frame 0 and named that track 'Base”. Then I created a new Track and called it Walk Cycle, with Additive mode Checked and Pass Through unchecked.
Next I advance to frame 12. Activating the Anim View I then go to the settings tab in the Stack and use the Anim Pref box to check “Repeat” to loop the Anim. In Play Range I set Start at 12 and End at 36.
Frame rate to PAL 25fps. Speed of replay to x1 (although I'll use most of the available replay speeds later for checking the motion), Time Format to Frames and Snapping to Snap to Frames.
Now I set the first pose in the 3d window using the footprints as a guide and both FK and IK and various locks to get the position I want. Here's a tip that works for me – I Hot Key the Move To Previous Frame, Move To Next Frame, and the Dynapose icons using the ,./ keys. This allows me to scrub through the anim frame by frame and select and deselect Dynapose quickly. Note that if you Record a KeyFrame with Dynapose active the keyframe gets applied to the skeleton, if you record with dynapose inactive your KeyFrame is applied to the entire character – this is how I do it but there may well be advantages and disadvantages that I'm not yet aware of.
For now, I'm using dynapose to set the position then using my / Hot Key to deselect Dynapose before recording a Key Frame.
Next I copy the KeyFrame at Frame 12 of the Walk Cycle track and paste it at frame 36 to loop the cycle. Here my feet line up with the second pair of footprints just as they did at the start of the walk cycle (Frame 12).
Now, drag click on the Crazy Bob Block in the LE to create a copy – use the orange square to go down one layer of the copy, delete the AnimClip boxes, character mesh (NoName,3) and select the Skeleton. Activate the Mirror Tool to mirror the skeleton.
Advance to frame 24 and use the mirrored Skeleton as a reference to pose Bob. Around about now you'll discover that Bob is not very symmetrical – one shoulder is longer than the other and his feet are not symmetrically attached to the foot part of his mesh. That's ok though as we will fine tune things later so reasonably close is close enough. Record this KeyFrame and delete or hide your reference skele.
Running the Anim you'll see a very rough walk cycle which should now be tightened up. Go to the 6th frame of the cycle (Frame 18) and pose Bobs weight bearing pose ensuring the foot on the ground lines up with the reference footprint. Once you've KeyFramed this pose once again copy Bob' go down one layer in the LE and delete the AnimClips and character mesh – select the skeleton and mirror it as a reference.
Now reselect your original Bob and advance 12 Frames to Frame 30 and repose and KeyFrame Bob using the copied skele as a reference. Delete this skele once you are finished. Run your anim and you should have a reasonably usable walk cycle using only 5 KeyFrames (the last being the same as the first).
Now comes the fine tuning – go to the third Frame of your walk cycle (Frame 15) and make any adjustments needed – here is where you may need to lift the trailing foot a little so it clears the ground cleanly and flatten the leading foot so it sits nicely on the footprint. Record your KeyFrame.
Now you can copy Bob and Mirror Tool his skele as a reference here but realistically most of the walk cycles shape is already defined so you may do just as well tweaking the pose by eye. If you do copy and mirror the Skele you can use this as a reference to set the 15th pose at Frame 27. Otherwise go to this frame and just set it by eye.
Now going to the 9th Walk Cycle frame (Frame 21) we can fine tune the position of the foot on the foot print and make any adjustments needed to lift the upper foot so it effectively clears the ground when you scrub back and forth through the Anim. Once this pose is KeyFramed we need to mirror it at the 21st Frame of the cycle (Frame 33) and we're almost done.
Now we have 8 Keyframed poses plus a copy of the first pose. Run your anim at different playback speeds and also frame by frame – Study the motion to make sure it does what you want. At this stage you only have 8 poses to modify should it be required. Pay special attention to the way the feet line up with the footprints and that they don't sink into the ground or float above.. Here is also when you would add any characteristics to the walk – like making it a March or a slouch or a stomp or a limp or what ever.
Once your walk looks nice and funky (or however you want it to look) go through and add Keyframes at the frames that have not yet been posed making any final adjustments to the feet on a frame by frame basis – don't forget to scrub back and forward through the time line to remove any jerkiness or foot slippage and there you have it!
This took longer to type than it did to set the key frames (although I cheated and only did the feet and legs!)
Having sweated blood and tears over my first walk cycle I have to say this went very smoothly as a result of having learned from my first effort. My first Walk cycle took a week, my second less than 3 hours!
So here's the patented Wizard Walk Cycle for Crazy Bob (Psychologically Impaired Robert!). Hope it helps ......
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Post by trueBlue // Aug 22, 2008, 5:41am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Nice walk cycle Wiz :)
I notice in frame 35 there is some distortion in the knees, see capture. Fooling around with this I notice if I slightly move to foot handle it sorta of corrects this but with unwanted movement and this creates additional problems in the previous keyframes not present before. So as a test with your scene, newly reloaded, I deleted all of the handles. This seems to fix the problems with the distortion. |
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