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SMC and MMC not in Caligari Gallery
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SMC and MMC not in Caligari Gallery // Roundtable
Post by TomG // Sep 3, 2008, 5:26am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hi all,
Here is an odd thing Ive noted - the SMC and MMC user-run contests generate some great images. Yet very few of those entries actually turn up submitted to our monthly gallery contest.
This seems odd to me - I can't say the SMC and MMC images will be winners, but there is certainly a chance (I know choosing which to vote on is pretty tough each time and getting tougher with every round of the contests!), but there is certainly a good chance, since they are good images, and you could net yourself some nice prizes.
Since you've already made the image and there it is sitting on your hard drive, why not send it in? Doesn't matter if it got most or least votes, this is a whole new contest with different judging.
And if you feel it could be better for going into the monthly gallery, well you've already done 75% of the work, so why not throw in an extra hour or two on it if you feel it might help your chances?
You can always take that model and drop it into Virtual Earth too, giving you a second category to enter.
It seems a shame to me that more people don't enter and have a chance to win something in return for the hard work they've already done, so I'd like to encourage all to send things in!
BTW we will try and simplify the process for entering the gallery - we are thinking to moving to a simple "email your entry" with image or VE URL included in the mail, and an ftp upload for animations (just include the filename in your email entry), that would cut down on needing to log in, which requires an extra sign up for a new userid etc. If anyone thinks that might help because they've been deterred by the submission process, let me know!
(Note that it won't change the need to have a Windows Live ID to be able to export to Virtual Earth).
Anyway, there is a lot of great work out there that I don't see getting it's chance to win as it's not even in the line up! I'd encourage all to take part!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Nez // Sep 3, 2008, 5:41am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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As I actually enter a few of mine this month, I guess I should be glad that not too many others did likewise! In terms of the Virtual Earth stuff - well I can't do this until I'm up and running with 7.6 which is at least a few eeks off, but I wasn't quite sure how that works with things that don't actually exist somewhere specific?
I mean I could make a model of my house, and would know where that goes in the real world, so I assume I would position it accordingly in Virtual Earth. But if I create something 'fantasy' or not location specific (e.g. my submarine), where should it be put? Just at an arbitrary location out at sea?
Having not really looked at VE, my whole question may not actually make much sense but I hope I am.... |
Post by TomG // Sep 3, 2008, 5:57am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The question makes sense!
VE entries would score "extra points" based on their geolocation. If you have a fantasy / unreal object, then choosing a location for its looks would work (a castle, maybe high on a craggy peak, or deep in a forest; a mansion maybe in some rolling hillsides; a skyscraper, maybe in the midst of a city). You could also choose the location based on other aspects, maybe the author of the book or movie that inspired the work lives there; maybe there is some irony or joke involved in the placement.
So choosing a good location is part of it, but what counts as a "good location" is up for grabs, like what counts as "good composition". Some guidance can be offered, but in the end it is up to the artist.
As a note, you can place objects inside existing cities, I did that with the bus. When viewing a collection, any 3D objects in that collection suppress nearby city elements - so if I drop my skyscraper (or my fantasy mushroom house) into downtown Dallas, for those viewing the collection then my building will replace the ones that were there in the standard VE city.
For those not viewing the collection, the regular real world buildings will show as always.
So you could drop your "new and improved" version of an existing model into VE, maybe you think your version of some famous landmark is better than one already on show in VE, for instance.
I am sure folks can be quite creative and clever in deciding their geolocating - dropping it randomly in the middle of the sea would be as much of a disappointment as just throwing in some random lights and hoping it looks good (though submarines and ships of course would work fine in the middle of the sea!).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Steinie // Sep 3, 2008, 5:58am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I have a perspective on the Caligari Gallery you might not want to hear. Maybe some of us are tired of losing! I've seen some of the best work here not even place second in the Gallery. (no not my stuff, I can't even get that high!) After a while the time taken to get it ready etc. isn't even worth it. Taste are taste, send one judge into an art show and he/she will pick the same stuff each time.
I personally don't care if I win prizes, heck I'll just buy it. So that isn't my motivation. But being a loser month after month is not fun.
Just being honest.
I tried the VE method and for me I just don't get it. So I have to simplify my work to get it on the map? Why bother?
p.s I DID enter this month by the way. So I haven't quit yet.
p.p.s Why not have all entries in the SMC and MMC automatically be entered into the Monthly Contest? I've seen WIP works get put on the main site many times. |
Post by TomG // Sep 3, 2008, 6:07am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Yes, saw you had entered, and glad you did! Lots of others did not though, and I'd encourage them to submit.
We'll be listening to all opinions and thoughts, so everyone is welcome to comment!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by MikeJoel // Sep 3, 2008, 6:27am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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(these are just my thoughts)
If your submission didn't win the MMC or SMC then there probably is VERY little chance of winning one in which a prize is going to be given* and where probably the best on the forum will be posting.
I took a look at the gallery and was struck by two things.
1) The excellent work of all the submissions
2) the number of times no winner was chosen (* so no prize was given I assume according the the rules I read)
* From what I read in the rules (and I may have misunderstood) that if Caligari decides there aren't enough entries then it can decide not to choose a winner and that would mean no prize. So it seems to me from a business standpoint that this would also be used so a prize wouldn't have to be given if none of the entries met with the ideas that Caligari was wanting to use it for (obviously the clauses give Caligari the rights to use all images submitted for advertising and such). As I looked through the gallery I noticed how many times there were more than 5 or 6 entries but no winner and no runner up.
I can't check right now (I'm on dial up and it takes a while for everything to load) but I think (from memory) there were times when there were just as many entries in one month as another and one wouldn't have winners declared and another would.
So I would think the underlying feeling that unless an entry is what Caligari is looking for then it will not only, not win, but that Caligari could decide to not award a prize (kind of like an un-contest contest) :D
These are just my thoughts,
Mike |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 3, 2008, 6:46am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I sympathise with your viewpoint Bob - I remember feeling the same way about having to enter the school cross country run every year - although being more the artist than the athlete I figured even if you did win the cross country it would still be no fun as it would still involve running through the mud!!
You can take my comments with suitable disdain if you wish, seeing as I've had a couple of wins over the years (in the Caligallery not the cross country run!!;)) however the chief value for me (or perhaps the most consistent value) is that entering the most months works as a deadline for me, a target to work towards that makes it easier to keep focussed on what I'm doing.
This approach has really helped me to hone my craft and develop my skills. Without entering the Caligary contest most months I would have had less incentive to work - thus the biggest reward for me is that the Caligari Monthly Contest gives me something to aim for - a deadline.
Additionally, another reward I get from entering most months is a feeling that I am helping to support the company (and this community) that has helped and supported me - with their software, their technical assistance and their attitude. If a picture I have submitted to the gallery encouraged just one other person in the world to buy tS or to get involved in 3d CG Art - something which gives me massive pleasure - then I've done a little something to make the world that little bit more pleasant.
Entering often also pays off other ways - I have had at least half a dozen job offers from people who have seen my submissions in the Caligallery. Nothing ever came from these offers but it's sure a nice feeling to know that my work is being appreciated to that degree.
Oh yeah! There's also the added spice that I might, just might, win something with my submission. Like Tom says, you got to be in it to win it.
So the way I see it - anyone who enters the Caligari Monthly Gallery Contest is a winner - even if their submission does not get selected!
As I'm making 3d art anyway I always figured I might as well enter - it costs nothing and rewards in many ways - I can't lose! Month after month I did not win anything and was sometimes not even selected - but that was never the aim. Yes it's nice to win but not winning is not the same thing as loosing. It's possible to enjoy running in the cross country just for the joy or running (and not being stuck inside learning about cosines or political history!!) |
Post by splinters // Sep 3, 2008, 7:03am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I can relate to that too Bob, even without winning, getting stuff in the gallery has netted me a few paying jobs...some quite lucrative, some very rewarding.
Not always about winning...just taking part. The deadline mentality has also got a few projects finished when they would otherwise end up in limbo...;)
Still, would be interesterd to know what you do with unclaimed 'credit' and what future prizes are. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 3, 2008, 7:04am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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One of the main reasons I'm switching to only submitting to the Challenges and NOT the Gallery is at least you get feedback. If you make the Gallery you hear nothing. I don't just speak for only myself. In the last couple years many of you have shared the same feelings with me.
Yep Wizard it feels like mud.
edit: Sorry Splinters we posted at the same time. I turn down the work anyways. My Professional work is always 2D. |
Post by splinters // Sep 3, 2008, 7:21am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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One of the main reasons I'm switching to only submitting to the Challenges and NOT the Gallery is at least you get feedback. If you make the Gallery you hear nothing. I don't just speak for only myself. In the last couple years many of you have shared the same feelings with me.
Yep Wizard it feels like mud.
edit: Sorry Splinters we posted at the same time. I turn down the work anyways. My Professional work is always 2D.
No problems Bob, I do either although I prefer 3D nowadays...I used to do airbrush and marker illustration but it took forever!
A friend asked for a portrait the other day (those cheesy pencil ones copied from a photo)...how do I let him down? ;) |
Post by prodigy // Sep 3, 2008, 7:27am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Must to say im agree with Bob..
I think i know this community.. and the most important thing for this community is motivation, even more important than cool prizes..
There's new people asking for help, users learning new things about 7.6, or people like me just without the time..
See?? i cannot send my SMC entry!!! :mad:
:D things of life..
What ever, I think i have some cool ideas for VE and i will try to help ASAP. :o
(If that count) hehehehe
Cya! |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 3, 2008, 8:00am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Still, would be interested to know what you do with unclaimed 'credit' and what future prizes are.
I too have unclaimed credit but I've seen elsewhere that Tom recommends contacting Customer services in that case (I've not yet got around to it).
The new prize pool as described on the updated competition pages and includes a tS VRay licence and a couple of other things of lesser interest to me (which is why I can't recall off hand what they are!).
One of the main reasons I'm switching to only submitting to the Challenges and NOT the Gallery is at least you get feedback. If you make the Gallery you hear nothing.A good point but surely you post both to the Monthly Gallery AND to the finished Artworks forum here where you can get feedback? Heck, you could even call your thread 'Cartoon Corner' or something;).
Something that has often struck me about the monthly contest and the subsequent forum discussion - that discussion is often quite negative, often criticising the choice of winners or the overall quality. There have been cases of course of cheating so there is some justification for some of these comments however the focus to me is far better placed on the benefits of participating rather than the benefits of winning a prize.
Also it's something of a chicken/egg thing - the more people enter the more interest there will be thus the greater potential for feedback - but this means more competition and less chances of any given submission winning a prize!!
I've sometimes wondered if gallery selections should be simply drawn from the forums - that way Caligari could choose from any image submitted to the forum that month - any image submitted would be a potential candidate. The contest would then become more of a 'best of the forum submissions' rather than the much smaller 'best of gallery submissions'. Just a thought.... |
Post by Breech Block // Sep 3, 2008, 11:14am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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I've sometimes wondered if gallery selections should be simply drawn from the forums - that way Caligari could choose from any image submitted to the forum that month - any image submitted would be a potential candidate. The contest would then become more of a 'best of the forum submissions' rather than the much smaller 'best of gallery submissions'. Just a thought....
Somebody give this man a cigar and put him on the payroll! Excellent idea Wizard. |
Post by TomG // Sep 3, 2008, 11:45am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Too hard to manage though, as we'd have to go through one month of forum posts to isolate all images, and somehow keep track of who's image it was for when judging came around. Plus some people don't want to enter contests, so simply taking any post in the forum as an entry wouldn't work.
Then there is animations. Then there are VE URLs.
Not only that, but contest entry means we have the right to re-use your image, which someone posting on the forums isn't necessarily giving. Would be limiting to have posting to that forums give that right, then some folks couldn't post their work.
So there will have to be an active submission process, where the person submitting is doing so voluntarily and knowingly.
HTH!
Tom
PS - we did have a best of the forums page for a while, but there just wasn't enough time in the day to run it, so it was abandoned again. |
Post by transient // Sep 3, 2008, 2:34pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Why not start a competition thread in the image gallery? Or another forum, we already have two for the challenges?
The other thing is that I already own vray, so if I won (not saying I would ;)), it would be a waste, as someone else could have used it (vray users are something we need more of around here).
The only prizes I would be interested in are the now-discontinued packs. The animated arrow thread by emmanuel is a clear reminder that 6.6/ modeler still has a lot of legs. |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 3, 2008, 3:17pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Too hard to manage though, as we'd have to go through one month of forum posts to isolate all images, and somehow keep track of who's image it was for when judging came around. Plus some people don't want to enter contests, so simply taking any post in the forum as an entry wouldn't work.
Then there is animations. Then there are VE URLs.
Not only that, but contest entry means we have the right to re-use your image, which someone posting on the forums isn't necessarily giving. Would be limiting to have posting to that forums give that right, then some folks couldn't post their work.
So there will have to be an active submission process, where the person submitting is doing so voluntarily and knowingly.
HTH!
Tom
PS - we did have a best of the forums page for a while, but there just wasn't enough time in the day to run it, so it was abandoned again.
To quote Judge Dredd: "I knew you'd say that!" :D. Can I have the cigar anyway?;) |
Post by Nez // Sep 3, 2008, 10:42pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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(these are just my thoughts)
If your submission didn't win the MMC or SMC then there probably is VERY little chance of winning one in which a prize is going to be given* and where probably the best on the forum will be posting.
I took a look at the gallery and was struck by two things.
1) The excellent work of all the submissions
2) the number of times no winner was chosen (* so no prize was given I assume according the the rules I read)
I know what you mean Mike - I've had similar thoughts about my work not being worth submitting. As my time is very limited, I've got to the point where I'm only really doing the SMCs and MMCs - I never get to do any other projects, and because of the time pressures on those challenges, I rarely quite get them to a point where I would actually consider them totally finished and therefore worth submitting! And getting caught up in the next challenge, I never go back and finsih them properly either....
Having said all that, I noted other folks pointing out you can't win it if you're not in it, so I've decided to try and enter a little more often - how much it'll happen is another matter but as I would actually really like a copy of VRay, I do have some incentive. If nothing else, it's nice to get a bit of recognition, even with just an 'honourable mention'. It may mean that I need to take a break from some of the SMCs and MMcs to actually produce something of a higher standard (or to finish off a nearly-there effort) but we'll see. |
Post by remnar // Sep 8, 2008, 3:16pm
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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How about creating a gallery where people can submit their own votes? It'll be like a forum, but it would have features for viewers to vote and post comments. Then at the end of the month, Caligari can use server scripts to parse the info and get the top 10 voted or something similar. On that note also you can add a option for a person to check on if they want their post to be included in the monthly contest. |
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