|
|
3D World Issue 109: tS Special
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
3D World Issue 109: tS Special // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Sep 5, 2008, 7:29am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
First can I ask if anyone is still bothered about these summaries of the issues?
I started as several members were interested in getting the magazine but there is a long wait in the US so I was trying to save you money if the content was not that good.
Just a quick yes if you want otherwise I will probably make this the last one.
However, it is not really a tS special but you would not think it looking at the mag:
Main free app this month (after Hexagon two issues ago) is trueSpace 7.6 along with a few free turbo squid models and some free textures. I do think their claim that the models are worth $4,464 are a bit much though...:rolleyes:
So not much else on the CD although the models are pretty good.
Cars, Planes and Trains is the theme of the issue with tS7.6 free being the next main heading on the cover.
You get to the letters page and Chris Barker is defending tS as the true first piece of software of the 'third wave'. That being intuitivie node based programming which the mag seems to be accrediting to the new Xsi.
Indeed, the mag apologize and acknowledge tS was there first....this all looks like it is going to be a great issue for tS...but then it goes a bit wrong.
As for the other contents.
Feature on Star Wars Force Unleashed looking at Euphoris and Havok physics engines. Lots of Siggraph 2008 news, Silo releasing a $99 core version, not that much else really as this is a modelling vehicles special.
Can't remember the last time I saw a product receive 10/10 but CrazyBump 1.05 (at $99) got the thumbs up and that top score...
Don't get me wrong, this is a great read again but on to the tS bits....
Of all the tutorials, the tS one is the shortest. Hell, it has less screen grabs than the quick answers section!!
It is a two page spread but the train (and a very nice render it is from Nathan Prestopnik) takes up nearly all of the second page with only 5 (yes 5!) small screen grabs on the bottom of the page and two columns of descriptions.
The plane tutorial (modo) is a good six pages with dozens of grabs and so is the car (Xsi)...it is as if 3D World just can't seem to accept the program as a serious app and it comes across as more of an advert than a feature.
But it gets worse, imagine my delight at discovering we now have layers in workspace....except we don't do we?
That's right...the meagre page count given to this first tS7.6 tutorial is a project that uses the model side.....:cool:
Now, I love tS, and the model side, but this looks like the tutorial that they ran when tS6.6 was released many years ago...surely not the best PR for the workspace.
It sort of redeems itself later in the mag by showing Marcel's realtime render (the courtyard with the trees) but the info is a bit misleading where it states:
'One of trueSpace 7.6's most striking features is it's realtime viewport. Two offline render engines give you the option to use HDRI, GI or caustics'.
Kinda true there but you better the get the FAQ's ready Tom for all the new members asking why their workspace wont use the offline render engines...;)
So, a good read but if this were Caligari PR looking for sales (which it now doesn't need) I would be asking who messed up.
Such a shame the tutorial was not workspace based.
Anyhow, let me know if you still want me to post these (although they may be shorter).
Next issue: Mastering cloth.
Til next month (or not?).... |
Post by Steinie // Sep 5, 2008, 7:39am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
I have based my magazine purchase each month on your review. Your call if you want to continue. I appreciated the effort up to now.
I even received the Pixar History Book for my Birthday! (great read) |
Post by frootee // Sep 5, 2008, 8:00am
|
frootee
Total Posts: 2667
|
Hi Paul. I do enjoy your reviews. Thank you very much! Please continue the monthly report!
Froo |
Post by splinters // Sep 5, 2008, 8:13am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
That is one recommendation I am proud of Steinie...that is a bloody great book.
Did you know it is the companion book to a documentary: The Pixar Story?
Good news is it comes on the Wall-e DVD out November 24th here in the UK. Probably earlier in the US.
I am happy to continue Steinie..it was just that my post were becoming like a monologue, only a few responded so I thought you weren't bothered anymore.
I realise how long you have to wait if you order this mag ( I get it even earlier than the shops in the UK) so I don't want you to order it and be disappointed...:D
Another thing, I am a tS supporter and I am not bashing them here. I just feel that, after the lack of good, serious press they have had in 3D World, that running a tutorial (albeit a small one) using the model side...sort of sends the wrong message about what tS7.6 is all about.
So, I hope I have not offended anyone at Caligari, and if this had come out after tS6.6 release it would have been a belter! |
Post by splinters // Sep 5, 2008, 8:27am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
I did forget to mention that the train tutorial has a full video walkthrough which would explain the near useless screen grabs.
Still, the other tutorials have videos as well but I really like the way the mag has nice descriptive screen grabs you can use without having to run the videos.
The tS tutorial just has 5 grabs of stages of the process rather than actual tutorials.
To be perfectly honest, the workspace is my weakest area so I was looking forward to a nice mag based tutorial to work through.
Bottom line, buy the mag for a good general read but I could not recommend buying this month for anything tS based as you can get the program, and better tutorials, here for free...and you can get it immediately...:)
I look forward to the pending review of tS7.6....anyone seen any yet? |
Post by TomG // Sep 5, 2008, 9:49am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
They needed it to be a tutorial on vehicles, and with the tight deadline for that in mind Nathan was their chosen author, with this tutorial. Nathan is well known due to his winning video in the Big Break contest, and he had something vehicle specific to hand that he could do, so all lthat added in to their selection of that tutorial.
I am sure we'll be seeing workspace tutorials from them in the future though (no harm in emailing them and requesting them though, let them know the demand is out there!). Or better yet, get in touch and offer them a tutorial :)
If anyone is interested in that, and don't want to go direct to 3DW, just email me and I can start the ball rolling, though just start it - after that, the agreements on deadines, pricing, content etc are always a matter between 3DW and the artist. But if anyone would rather have an introduction from the Caligari side of things, I can sure do that.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Sep 5, 2008, 10:35am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Tom, I have no problem with the artist or tutorial, just thought it was a missed opportunity to push the potential of the workspace. I was genuinely suprised to see this tutorial after all the work Caligari have done to tell us model side is the 'old' side and is to be phased out.
I did not see what it offered beyond a tS6.6 tutorial. I really was looking forward to a coffee and a good read through a workspace tutorial that I could try later.
The work really is top notch though and credit to Nathan. Take this as your first official request for a WS tutorial for the mag...I will email them with the same request...:D |
Post by TomG // Sep 5, 2008, 11:21am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
Well, not our choice what goes in as a tutorial :) That is purely up to 3DW of course, and their criteria was as below, which limited their choice and determined their final selection.
I would treat it as a way to learn some good fundamentals, which apply to any 3D app, and I am sure much of it can be carried over to the workspace (maybe someone can redo the tutorial, a "for this, do this" kind of "conversion tutorial").
So I would like to see workspace tutorials in there, or in fact anywhere, the more the merrier! With tS being free and widely adopted now, then I am sure 3DW would be very open to hearing from authors with possible tutorials.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Liger ZERO // Sep 5, 2008, 11:47am
|
Liger ZERO
Total Posts: 124
|
Good to see 3D World with some tS content. I hope they keep it up. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 5, 2008, 11:47am
|
RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
|
After Andy moved to C4d things have been slowing down at
the 3DW side. But its a general problem there that they only
feature the industry standard. It has very much to do with
the advertisement department.Thats very common in the
mag business. Lots of ads lots of featurestories and tutorials....
Peter |
Post by TomG // Sep 5, 2008, 11:57am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
And that is a good point Rayman - I am happy to see any coverage of tS, tS has been a little under-represented, so nice to start raising that again!
Of course 3DW can only publish tS content if they receive tS content, and that's where the community comes in. If we don't send them some images, tutorials, articles etc, then they can't publish them....
HTH!
Tom |
Post by transient // Sep 5, 2008, 3:19pm
|
transient
Total Posts: 977
|
It's a shame they had to have such a lame tutorial. Something about vray or 3delight, scripting or even virtual earth, would have been far better. |
Post by splinters // Sep 6, 2008, 8:36am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
I am with you Transient. Always a supporter of tS, I am vexed more by how tS comes across in this issue, like a cheap giveaway given a couple of pages just to warrant the headline on the cover.
I agree that something about the LE, VE or even its realtime potential would have been a better advert for it.
Still, as Tom says, we need to submit stuff to get it in...but I am not so sure it works like that....:rolleyes: |
Post by roman // Sep 6, 2008, 10:15am
|
roman
Total Posts: 320
|
Which month is that? I do not see the issue 109, I am just looking at issue 108 (October) which has a pretty good interview with YT (Yours Truly:) |
Post by splinters // Sep 6, 2008, 12:47pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
It is the November issue Roman, Issue 109,not even in the shops in the UK yet. Subscribers get it a bit earlier...:D
Not sure it is showing on their site yet either...:o
Mmmmm, pretty good interview you say?
Give me a mo and I will get a pic of this months issue and feature....... |
Post by splinters // Sep 6, 2008, 1:04pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Here ya go, these are all the pages that feature tS7.6: |
Post by splinters // Sep 6, 2008, 1:16pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Shame they couldn't have got imaker to do a tutorial on making cars. That cover is about the same standard as his work (this one is in 3DS Max).
Nothing wrong with Nathan's train though...nice bit of work...:D |
Post by Johny // Sep 6, 2008, 11:07pm
|
Johny
Total Posts: 672
|
Thanks for share the images Splinters! :) |
Post by splinters // Sep 6, 2008, 11:15pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
It's my pleasure Johny. I don't normally do this but Roman seemed curious. I guess he has the latest issue but that would seem recent for the US especially as this new issue is on the newstands in the UK tomorrow.
Actually, looking at that feature again, your first thought might be something to do with animation 'Modelling on Rails'?? rather than a 'simple' modelling tutorial.
I have to stress again, I have no issue with the mag or the feature....I may even try it out later, it just seems strange given the way model side has been played down for so long. Tom's response was very diplomatic but I can't imagine that this is the ideal first feature for tS7.6...
And I do wish I could produce something in workspace worth printing then I would submit it directly to 3D World mag. After reading this for nearly 110 issues (a long time) they rarely run the same feature in a close time frame. In other words they are not likely to run another tS tutorial for some time...that is why I am a little disappointed. Tom suggests sending stuff but there are calls from many user groups (Blender, Poser, Daz etc.) for features on their program...tS so far has had little market share in the mag other than the MS news.
I hope I am wrong but the one insight I may have here is the history of the mag, that is why I am dubious about another feature any time soon and why I feel it was a 'missed opportunity'. |
Post by simpo // Sep 6, 2008, 11:59pm
|
simpo
Total Posts: 25
|
I gonna check out this issue... Thanks for the info. |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 7, 2008, 1:23am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
3d world is generally a good mag - but like so many people it seems to have a limited concept of what the 3d World is all about. For example, last week there was an extended news item on prime time news (repeated during the late news round-up) about 3d visualisation.
New Zealand has a multi billion dollar luxury yacht construction business. They showed Vray quality renders of the interior design of a 4 million dollar boat and then showed photos of the finished vessel - I could not tell which was ther photo and which was the render.
The article was about a company that specialises in marine 3d visualisation - customers from Europe and the US order these luxury vessels based on these renders - the company expected to be generating billi0ons of dollars worth of turn over within the next ten years. Note that this is not turn over from luxury yacht sales - this is turn over from the 3d renderings of luxury yachts for sales purposes.
My point being that the 'Industry' is far wider than just games and movies, Maya and XSI.
3D World magazine is supposedly about 3d art and the 3d industry but seems to operate within an arbitrarility narrow and restricted view of that 3d world.
Getting back to the news item they also showed 3d instruction manuals - how to fit aluminium joinery, the interior moving parts of industrial power plants, how to assemble a modern barbecue.
3d is information rich - the human mind naturally understands 3d imagery better than the written word and this is a big future trend in the world.
Ramble mode off |
Post by splinters // Sep 7, 2008, 4:39am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Not a ramble Wizard, but a very good point. Every now and again they pull out a real good feature but most of the last year or so seems to be a carousel of organic/mechanical/landscape etc. tutorials usually featuring a major app. There is no mag here to touch it but I remember when Computer Arts did 3D specials...they were special.
Even the SFX special this month is a better read regarding 3D in general.
Having said that 3D World is still a good read but you do feel it is biased. Still, if my main app was 3DS or Maya, I would be in heaven...:rolleyes: |
Post by Bobbins // Sep 7, 2008, 10:59pm
|
Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
|
One of the guidelines for 3DW tutorials (and the Q&A items) is that they should be general enough for users of other applications to get some ideas and hints from. I know that isn't always the case as many of tutorials use application specific tools but you can often work around them. A tutorial based solely on the Link Editor would therefore be less desirable for the magazine than one on modelling since only tS users would be interested. |
Post by Weevil // Sep 8, 2008, 2:02am
|
Weevil
Total Posts: 534
|
Sorry...Can I cut back in on the tutorial thing...
I haven't read all the messages after tom said it but...
I'd be more than happy to share how I made my Hornet or the phantom (or Tomcat) since I'm doing it as a tutorial...even though I've now missed the train's plane's and automobiles issue...I'd love to do a tutorial though...But will the fact I'm using 6.6 have an effect on it? Or do things convert quite happily to 7?
EDIT: Oh yeah, I submitted my Hornet to their gallery contest but I was running on autopilot and I didn't cross-check the magazine info to the website infor and I sent (based on what they used to accept) two LARGE images and a .txt about the image/me instead of what they currently want which is (two in my case) screen res shots and they'll get back to you if they want you. DON'T follow the information off their website people...it's a vey silly thing to do...
Now...I've got to admit 3D world is biased but I have picked up one or two useful little tips, in the VFX special about explosions (which can just be a flash and some smoke) and this issue even about making a decent afterburner... The TS exclusive issue with Andy Kay making that nut's'n'bolts jeep was a good one...I didn't even have 6.6 then but it's where I got the simbiont textures from |
Post by TomG // Sep 8, 2008, 2:42am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
This magazine won't be out in the US for some weeks (usually about 3 to 5 weeks late in showing up on US newstands, depening on what part of the country you are in).
No diplomacy involved in my replies :) 3DW choose their tutorials on various criteria, which are up to them since they control the content. Note that imaker doesn't share his creation secrets, he's been asked in the past and doesn't post much in the way of WIP or guides etc, so I doubt he'd do a tutorial in 3DW (or not in as much detail as they might like). As another thought, last I saw, he was still using the Model side / tS6.6 tools also, not sure I have seen a car from him using the new tools yet? If he reads this, then let's hope it's all change and he does offer a tutorial to 3DW using the workspace side :)
And the bottom line is this - they can't publish tutorials that they don't have :) Get in touch, offer your services, specify what your proposed tutorial is about, let them know your broader areas where you could also do other tutorials if that one didn't fit their current themes, and see what they say.
And if you are just a reader and can't offer tutorial-writing skills, simply email and say you'd like to see more tutorials for this feature and that feature in tS. But without the first group of people, those able and willing to write the tutorials, it just won't come to pass, no matter how many of the second group write in!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Weevil // Sep 8, 2008, 2:45am
|
Weevil
Total Posts: 534
|
Well it won't hurt giving it a try...So let's do that then... *Runs off* |
Post by splinters // Sep 8, 2008, 3:29am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Fair points, all of them. However, the model side still looked 'old' in this tutorial and workspace looks much more like the solid mode of other apps which they often feature. Also, the toolset is smaller in workspace and a lot of people say they were put off tS (model side) by the sheer amount of icons on screen.
For both of these reasons a workspace based tutorial would better reflect Caligari's vision of the software...but maybe that is me thinking of PR more than tutorials...:confused:
Still, I got a review of the mag in again this month and some pics so I am done on this topic...:D |
Post by Burnart // Sep 8, 2008, 12:47pm
|
Burnart
Total Posts: 839
|
You get a copy of the program on the disk - what about the manual and associated videos? |
Post by splinters // Sep 9, 2008, 12:15am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
You get a video of the tutorial but I am not sure about the rest. I will look tonight, to be honest I haven't loaded the Disc yet as there is nothing on there I want (having tS already). |
Post by brotherx // Sep 10, 2008, 10:17pm
|
brotherx
Total Posts: 538
|
You have truespace and the pdf manual but no manual videos. I guess they had to cut it out to fit it onto a CD. On the CD they do say it is the complete TS 7.6 but that just isn't quite true without the videos. Doesn't seem to mention the video courses available on the site either.
There's also the train tutorial in quicktime (ick) format. The tutorial does come with rsscn files which is kind of wierd since it is done model-side. However, the video quality isn't great and there is no audio...with some of the lines, early on anyway, you can't even make them out so it's quite hard to see what is going on. |
|
