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What's wrong with Truespace?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
What's wrong with Truespace? // Roundtable
Post by headwax // Sep 26, 2008, 12:04am
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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Greetings
I'm a new guy here, been doing animation and 3d fanatically for about twenty months (ie my wife will leave me soon because I am addicted) , mainly using anim8or, but have had Carrara up and running for about six months.
So I've spent six months learning Carrara only to find out that the program is buggy, that a lot of "features" don't work etc or have minimal capability. Check the forums and listen to the users complaints over at DAZ for more information.
Anyway, getting to the point of the post: Truespace looks like a wonderful program.
But is it? I'm a bit wary after my Carrara experience.
I was wondering if people wouldn't mind telling me what is wrong with this program - not specifically bugs, but limitations - eg I see it has no animated materials.
On the other hand, you are quite welcome to tell me what is right with the program. ie what it does very well?
I am toying with buying Cinema 4d or learning how to use Truespace because in the end, time is much more valuable than money.
Thanks for any responses
headwax
BTW
Here's some of my work if you are interested in what stage I am at (not perfect but okay). :
Carrara: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl_2W4ORr88
or http://www.vimeo.com/1556633
Anim8or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlcUcwb92rA |
Post by RichLevy // Sep 26, 2008, 12:16am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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It's free and will cost you no more than the down load time to get it. It has it's pluses and minus's. Very few programs will offer BVH import and export, and the ability to combine physics to your animation clips.
Give it a try, it's worth a look.
Rich |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 26, 2008, 12:27am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Howdy Headwax - welcome to the forums. I came a similar route to you in that I started with Anim8or and then moved firstly to tS 3.2 then tS 5.1 and every version since then.
Anim8or is a wonderful program for learning the basics IMO but you'll find tS is a much more capable software.
It's not strictly true to say that animated textures are not possible in tS either. The thing to understand is that trueSpace is undergoing a lot of change and so at the moment is a bit of a hybrid combining the old program with the new successor. The two parts are linked as required by a software 'bridge' which is both a good thing and a not so good thing. Because old and new aspects use fundamentally different underlying code the translations between the two sides (model side and workspace) there is no direct 1 to 1 mapping of capabilities - the old bit does stuff the new bit can't and vice versa.
The old stuff (model side) does basically what Anim8or does only with way more features. The Workspace offers similar but different capabilities plus a whole load of uber-cool new stuff - fully immersive 3d environments, near photorealistic real time rendering and so on.
trueSpace also offers a selection of renderers, each with it's strengths and weaknesses.
Where Anim8or is a 3d animation software, tS is more like a suite of interconnected softwares and thus provides a wide range of possibilities far beyond that of Carrara. With tS it's important to know what your final outcome is intended to be, a still image, an animation, a 3d environment or a Virtual Earth model. It's also helpful to know in advance which renderer you will use for yur finished product as each rendering system has it's own materials and shaders.
The best way to see what it can do is to jump in and start experimenting, specially if you have a newer computer with a reasonable graphics card.
he other best way is to browse these forums - there's an abundance of cool stuff here and a great group of helpful users too.
HTH |
Post by brotherx // Sep 26, 2008, 1:07am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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It should also be noted that all the training videos are available for free as well. There are loads on the model side and a few more relevant to the workspace side and they will teach you the basics very quickly.
There are bugs, all software has them, and the forum users and caligari support are generally good at providing ways around the bugs.
I don't have too many issues with the software as I'm not animating and generally not a heavy user as I don't have the time but I've used hexagon and Carrara 5 pro and even truespace 6.6 was better IMO.
I'd recommend checking out the workspace organics course to start with then take it from there - it's a great course for learning the interface. If you want to look at the model side then try some of the older courses like Spirit of the Interface and also the South Park Reloaded course which is what I started with. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 26, 2008, 1:55am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I would certainly download and try trueSpace to see if you like it. I will only discuss the workSpace side of trueSpace (the NEW trueSpace being developed as we speak) and say it is fairly bug free. There is a patch coming soon that might fix the issues we found. So far I am very impressed with the new trueSpace when you supply it with a stable environment. (updated video drivers, video card that meets specs, enough memory)
You must know that there are a lot of tools still being rewritten from the ground up that are not on the NEW side yet. That sometimes makes it necessary to cross a "bridge" to the Old software and use it's tool set. A lot of users like the old side and prefer it. I tend to like the new side even with it's lack of tools but having very stable code. Rendering engines might be an issue for a few. The new side has a real time DirectX 9.0C renderer or you have to buy VRay (stripped down custom version for tS). However using the "Bridge" you can send your stuff back over to the old side to render with it's two rendering engines.
This new software is still in it's early stages so plug ins for it are being coded as we speak. This is now a Microsoft Product so Virtual Earth and 360 Games are it's focus. That last sentence could make or break your decision because honestly the long time users (me included) don't know yet what this software will become. |
Post by jayr // Sep 26, 2008, 2:09am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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like steinie i'd say download it and see if you like it. The modelling principles you'll learn using truespace will transfer to most, if not all, other 3d software so it's not like you'll be wasting your time learning to model with it. |
Post by parva // Sep 26, 2008, 2:56am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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doing animation and 3d fanatically for about twenty months (ie my wife will leave me soon because I am addicted)
oh sh**, really that bad?
Regarding to the other points I can just second the opinions of the other members. Try it out.
Besides every program has a demo version where you can play with and if you already toying with buying C4D
I can tell you that I also use this program and it's worth the price (have just the standart program - basic package)
and there the program is a melange between Maya and 3ds Max the jump to that programs is easy to take.
If you are doing mostly animations maybe Softimage is also worth a look.
My opinion to truespace. It has lots of potential but the current developing is slow
and the way to solve all the problems is a loong hard road.
my 2 cents ^^ |
Post by seavu // Sep 26, 2008, 5:03am
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seavu
Total Posts: 46
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The new side has a real time DirectX 9.0C renderer or you have to buy VRay (stripped down custom version for tS).
Is there more info about the VRay differences somewhere? |
Post by Steinie // Sep 26, 2008, 5:15am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I'll make it easy, for example
VRay for Rhino:$849
http://commerce.vismasters.com/catalog/viewproduct.aspx?product=4340
VRay for trueSpace: $299
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts75/Brochure/VRay1p0.asp |
Post by seavu // Sep 26, 2008, 5:31am
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seavu
Total Posts: 46
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Sorry. What I meant was what does "stripped down custom version" mean. To me the single greatest strength of tS is VRay for only $300. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 26, 2008, 5:55am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4631&highlight=vray
The number of features are different. Compare the two links I gave you before to see an example. Regardless the rendering quality in trueSpace is very good and well worth the price especially if you do any type of Architectural renderings. Not much in the way of Materials but Parva is working on that one. VRay materials from 3dMax do not work with tS VRay. |
Post by rrf // Sep 26, 2008, 8:31am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I have a few 3d programs, (I don't Animate and use only for modeling) - Hexagon, Carrara 6 pro, Silo, XSI, Wings, AC3D - There are good things and bad things about all of them, for example, I don't like the Mat Editor of Carrara at all, workflow in XSI is too slow for me, (I'm not a 'hot-key' guy either) etc, but I keep coming back to both Silo and TS. TS (and Silo) are much easier and faster for me. It took awhile to really learn the legacy (TS3, 4, 5, 6) icons and interface, but once I did, I found it's the best, for me at least - now on to learn 'Workspace' ( and the dreaded LE :)).
Since TS is Free now - I would recommend that you give it some time, not only is TS very deep, it's going to be the future of 3D on the Net (imho)
hth,
rf |
Post by nowherebrain // Sep 26, 2008, 8:50am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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V-ray, for one thing there is no monte-carlo option for the first bounce. |
Post by headwax // Sep 26, 2008, 12:44pm
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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Well that was a quick response! Thankyou all very much for your well considered answers. I didn't know for example about the BVH.
I forgot to say that I have done the organics course twice and found it very helpful. I've alos managed to customize the workspace (and lose it but that's okay ;) ) and found that very helpful. I;ve modelled a rigged figure and found that quite straight forward but have not had a chance to animate it yet.
RichLevy Thanks for the info on BVH and physics.
W!ZARD Thjanks for the welcome and the explanation ;)
brotherx
I'd recommend checking out the workspace organics course to start with then take it from there - it's a great course for learning the interface. If you want to look at the model side then try some of the older courses like Spirit of the Interface and also the South Park Reloaded course which is what I started with.
I'll look into South Park reloaded thankyou
Steinie thanks for that explanation, was very helpful.
parva
Just kidding about my missus! :)---------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the info on Softimage As far as "developing is slow" I take it everyone is worried the way the new truespace owners will develop it in the future?
Steinie Jayr rrf and nowherbrain thanks for your input too. Every bit helps.
I take it from everyone's posts that they can't see any real problems with truespace?
Is everybody happy with the renderer on the model side?
thanks again
hopefully I will have a list of questions soon.
headwax ;) |
Post by RichLevy // Sep 26, 2008, 1:20pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I'll save you a step with BVH animation, look into clips from Mr.Bones to start with. Than use the skeleton that comes with the clips. Use that skeleton to bui9ld any custom rigs from, than you will always be compliant to at least TrueBones BVH (assuming you are still new to retargeting BVH to rigs).
Hope you have some fun.
Rich |
Post by J90 // Sep 26, 2008, 2:59pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Welcome to the best online comunity Headwax.
I like the model side for rendering and adding materials to models. I prefer the workspace for modeling, physics, and animation though. I am not a good animator so I can't tell you anything about animating in TS. I hope to learn how to animate but I haven't found a character that comes with TS and was rigged, and works really well besides the avatars . I Haven't mastered rigging yet.
By the way I really like your anim8or animations. I haven't seen any others yet. |
Post by jhowell // Sep 26, 2008, 6:42pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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I agree with richlevly. So easy to grab any of truebones.com skeletons and drop them in a character object mesh. Then you can use any of the hundreds of available skeleton ANIM CLIPS to instantly add many motions to your character. Me personally I bring all my bvh's I get from different sources in to poser. Poser then exports them in a consistent boned name format which works the same in all my truespace characters. I can reuse all anim clips all the time. So I can bring all truebones bvh's in to poser and bvh's from free web sources and other software packages. Then when exported from poser they work always the same in truespace (droping anim clips in from so many sources after exporting from poser). Thats my personal workflow. Here are a couple examples I just recently did ...
Here is youtube of a character grabbing the pole ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSp6zI3gX1A
and blip.tv
http://www.blip.tv/file/1258845
:jumpy:
P.S. 4 man fight scene with Tank Girl and Bobby looking on~
view youtube here ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asaB-jGl6Tc&fmt=18
or view bliptv here ...
http://www.blip.tv/file/1257915
:jumpy:
I'll save you a step with BVH animation, look into clips from Mr.Bones to start with. Than use the skeleton that comes with the clips. Use that skeleton to bui9ld any custom rigs from, than you will always be compliant to at least TrueBones BVH (assuming you are still new to retargeting BVH to rigs).
Hope you have some fun.
Rich |
Post by headwax // Sep 27, 2008, 9:50pm
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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J90 said:
Welcome to the best online comunity Headwax.
Thanks J90. From what I can see it certainly seems active. Thanks for the comment on the anim8or avi :) And the tips on what side to use for what.
Rich Levy and jhowell
Thanks for the BVH and Mr bones heads up. It will point me in the right direction.
Jhowell that's a fine animation of the figure landing on the pole thankyou. I'm glad there were shadows. I've only watched a few truespace animations and had yet to see shadows!! (and was too scared to ask)
I've just spent an enjoyable x amount of hours working my way through chapter three of the manual. There's some good tools there and most seem easy to use.
Mirror tool is very fucntional but using different mirror planes will be interesting.
thanks again
sorry to be so long in replying .... |
Post by Kreator // Sep 28, 2008, 9:19pm
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Kreator
Total Posts: 1
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YesThe forum certainly seems to be active, unlike our own http://animanon.com.
Both Headwax and I are anim8or Users and have been looking for a program that comes up to scratch and can better anim8ors ease of use, however since just starting with Truspace it seems to be a little over the top in terms of GUI.
Can anyone direct me to vid tutorials that actually deal with Truspace 7.6 rather than older versions .
I also see that 3DWorld magazine placed truspace on their coverdisk and stuck a tutorial in the magazine content but is totally useless as the accompanying videos have no sound and run much to fast to actually see what the guy is doing |
Post by noko // Sep 28, 2008, 9:22pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Don't forget about the tS 7.6 manual videos, they are great and very worth while to go through for Workspace side. Plus much more up to date for current version. |
Post by headwax // Sep 28, 2008, 10:12pm
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/WorkspaceOrganicModeling1.asp?Cate=Training&Subcate=Fundamental
This is a great one to use also. Don't forget to downlaod the resources.
also see this for a small problem you will encounter with the reference image
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=82487#post82487
Maybe someone can recommend the next one to do after this one?
The spirit one seems to be done in the modeller side?? |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 29, 2008, 12:33am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Both Headwax and I are anim8or Users and have been looking for a program that comes up to scratch and can better anim8ors ease of use,...
Please let me know if you find one!! Anim8or is the easiest to use animation prog I've seen - but it's also pretty basic. I moved on to tS because Anim8or did not do what I needed it to do - not that tS always does either but tS is a far more comprehensive prog than Anim8or - and with that comes greater complexity and greater learning curves.
You can cook up some good stuff with Anim8or but I think it's really like a free gas-fired barbecue unit compared to trueSpaces free Home kitchen.
My $0.02 |
Post by headwax // Sep 29, 2008, 1:27am
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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Wizard wrote
Please let me know if you find one!!
Yes we have, it's called truespace 7.6 :) !!!!!!!!!!!! I look forward to learning this wonderful program!
Off topic:
Here's something from an anim8or user whiich given a few more weeks could be described as world class.... just needs a few more shots to fill in the visual narrative
http://www.animanon.com/Upload/user_uploads/ensoniq55edf/erasermanforweb2.wmv
I always blame my tools, This fellow uses his tools, |
Post by J90 // Sep 29, 2008, 5:05pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Wizard wrote
Yes we have, it's called truespace 7.6 :) !!!!!!!!!!!! I look forward to learning this wonderful program!
Off topic:
Here's something from an anim8or user whiich given a few more weeks could be described as world class.... just needs a few more shots to fill in the visual narrative
http://www.animanon.com/Upload/user_uploads/ensoniq55edf/erasermanforweb2.wmv
I always blame my tools, This fellow uses his tools,
That is a very creative animation.
I did not know anim80r can do that.
I like it |
Post by tamtam // Sep 29, 2008, 5:32pm
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tamtam
Total Posts: 213
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posted by headwax:
"I was wondering if people wouldn't mind telling me what is wrong with this program - not specifically bugs, but limitations - eg I see it has no animated materials."
You can animate materials on the model side, but I couldn't tell you how, because I've never done that before, so I don't know how. Maybe someone else knows how.
Sorry, I never quoted someone here or on any forum, so I don't know exactly how to to that. |
Post by headwax // Sep 29, 2008, 9:28pm
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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Hi Jan90
Yep. I like it too. The gentleman is a whiz. He might be coming over to Truespace??? I know he is thinking about Carrara.
Here's one by Kreator who posted above. Almost as good ;)
http://www.animanon.com/Upload/user_uploads/Kreator1e9d/final.wmv
TamTam
thanks for the info on the animated textures. Appreciated. :) |
Post by J90 // Sep 30, 2008, 4:49am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Information about animating materials is in the manual in the following:
Chapter 6(Surfacing model view) Starting page is 54.
The Manual is a Pdf
Looking forward to seeing what you can do with truespace. If you decide to use it. |
Post by headwax // Sep 30, 2008, 4:41pm
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headwax
Total Posts: 38
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thanks J90 (don't know wher jan90 cam from :( )
I'm looking forward to seeing what I can too!!
Thanks for the reference. I have downloaded an index tool for it and that's handy too!
cheers again |
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