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What I noticed about the renderers
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What I noticed about the renderers // Roundtable
Post by robert // Sep 27, 2008, 7:17am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Correct me if I'm wrong, or add if I missed something.
DX9: What you see is what you get, surprise surprise:rolleyes:
Lightworks: Good fast render engine if you don't need to worry about caustics or Global Illumination. Does have an old form of GI via radiosity (mentioned by spacekdet, thank you), is slower and sometimes has a few problems but has the general idea. Also handles many post effects like PPFX and all of those foreground/background options. Can have some object illumination through material lighting (thanks Nez for pointing that out), but with no real practical GI it doesn't quite have that nice neon glow look that would normally occur with such an object.
Virtualight: Good if you want accurate daytime lighting situations. Bit sketchy on the GI, but that's probably my fault for not experimenting enough. XD Also does caustics quite well, really slow to render though.:(
Vray: Fast and effective, has good GI without too many "spots" in the final render, can take a long time with high settings, does amazing caustics now with very little effort. Allows objects to become light emitters when using correct render settings. Very pristine, clean results (noted by splinters) for HDRI with higher samples and settings and such, does take a little longer but looks fantastic. It does, however, cost $299.:eek:
Dribble: A program that allows you to use 3Delight Renderman render engine with trueSpace (technical detail caught by Steinie, thanks for that:)), only $35 at the moment. Amazing micro polygon displacement allowing for very simple meshes with intricately detailed results, GI not so great but still good with the right settings. Sub surface scattering is much greater than that of Vray allowing for more realistic wax, marble, skin etc. effects.:cool: Also has an amazing fur shader (thanks for catching that splinters:o), much more control than Vray's, thanks splinters for pointing that out. Thousands of strand can be rendered in less than a minute on my machine if that's all that's rendering.;)
Kerkythea: Allows for objects to become lights enabling the rendering of fluorescent lights and neon signs etc. (RAYMAN's example (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=45501&postcount=7)) 5 different render engines under one hood, (thanks RAYMAN, I didn't know that) good GI if you know what settings you want to use. Comparable to Vray in terms of speed, has a few more features than Vray, and it's FREE!!:banana: Many free materials and tutorials on their site. More powerful, and greater variety of materials available than with Vray for trueSpace. It is however stand alone and you would have to export your scene in a compatible format and re-apply textures. Also has good caustics, takes a bit of time to render when doing GI and/or Caustics, depending on desired detail, but who can complain, after all it is free.:p
Let me know if I missed some very important features unique to each.:)
Just thought I'd post this for anyone who is wondering what render engine to go with for their particular project.
Here are the links to the various options and their showcases: VRay (http://caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts75/Brochure/VRay1p0.asp?Cate=BRendering_vray), Dribble (http://truespace.coolpowers.com/dribble/), Kerkythea (http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/), Lightworks (http://caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts75/Brochure/Rendering_LW.asp?Cate=BRendering_lw), Virtualight (http://caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts75/Brochure/Rendering_VL.asp?Cate=BRendering_vl), Realtime (http://caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts75/Brochure/Rendering_DX9.asp?Cate=BRendering_dx9)
All features mentioned by someone else are later in this thread and in greater detail, don't stop here! |
Post by splinters // Sep 27, 2008, 8:07am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Just to add that Vray is capable of nice clean results (at the expense of rendering time) with a higher sample setting.
And how could you forget Dribble's fur shader...worth buying for that feature alone!!
Simon says it is based on the code developed by Sony for the fur in Stuart Little...:D
I have said it before; on a feature per buck basis, Dribble is simply an essential purchase for the tS owner...:D |
Post by robert // Sep 27, 2008, 8:09am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Just to add that Vray is capable of nice clean results (at the expense of rendering time) with a higher sample setting.
And how could you forget Dribble's fur shader...worth buying for that feature alone!!
Simon says it is based on the code developed by Sony for the fur in Stuart Little...:D
I have said it before; on a feature per buck basis, Dribble is simply an essential purchase for the tS owner...:D
Oh yeah the fur!:o I was so intent on mentioning that I missed it. I love the fur shader, picking up the texture from the object and everything, thousands of strands rendered in under a minute really remarkable!:D |
Post by Steinie // Sep 27, 2008, 8:20am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Sorry but Dribble is not a Render engine, it allows you to use 3Delight Renderman with trueSpace.
So Dribble would be a "second party" allowing you to use 3Delight the "third party"
Also 3Delight license is $1000 but the first one is free. That is another reason Dribble is a bargain.
Your rendering with a Professional Pixar Spec Rendering engine.
Vray is currently the only Rendering option on the workSpace side without using the Bridge other then
Real time DirectX 9.0C.
Dribble only works on the Model side but that could change.
Future?...
Dribble can also be written to handle other Rendering Engines if Simon saw a need.
Jack is busy writing code for a workSpace plugin for Kerkythea and other options as well. |
Post by seavu // Sep 27, 2008, 8:52am
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seavu
Total Posts: 46
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Thanks for this thread since I am considering getting VRay and or Dribble. Thought I saw in the video tutorials for Vray that you can turn up the Luminosity of a object effectively making it a mesh emitter for doing those nice glowing lights and also wonder if it will do smoke/fog effects. Surely a high-end renderer like Vray would.
Dribble/3Delight gives great results but my experience with another Renderman renderer (Gelato) is it's very difficult to use since it's not integrate into the modeling program. Using advanced features like layered shaders had to be done by hacking scripts. Not sure if this is relevant to 3Delight though. |
Post by robert // Sep 27, 2008, 9:00am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Smoke effects are difficult in general, there are no built in Voxel solutions (volume pixel), I have a thread on clouds here (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6464) if you're interested.
Vray does some of the effect of a light emitting object, but it drops off very quickly meaning to light a room you need an intensity of 500 and then it gets very splotchy and doesn't quite come out right. If you just increase secondary/primary bounces it does kinda work but then you need to darken all the other lights accordingly, it can be done it would just take more effort than with Kerkythea.
In the notes with Dribble it states that layered materials are not supported, the workspace side Vray material editor doesn't like them either. It is however integrated into the program, Dribble that is, it is a separate toolbar but all settings are there and the material editor will pretty much show what it will look like using Lightworks approximation except for the fur shader, but that renders fast anyway.
That should be all correct, if anyone can second/verify this it would be helpful. |
Post by splinters // Sep 27, 2008, 9:02am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Vray does indeed do that...I will see if I can find the 'neon' tests I did. You need to adjust the second bounce settings (I forget the technical term) When you increase the luminosity of the material...they start to glow...:D |
Post by robert // Sep 27, 2008, 9:04am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Vray does indeed do that...I will see if I can find the 'neon' tests I did. You need to adjust the second bounce settings (I forget the technical term) When you increase the luminosity of the material...they start to glow...:D
Ok, just last time I tried to make a fluorescent light it didn't work, Vray has been upgraded since then though. I know a neon sign can work, but an actual light bulb didn't. That was what I got a while ago though so it's probably changed since then. |
Post by splinters // Sep 27, 2008, 10:39am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Not sure me mean the same thing but here is a little test I did in Vray. I can't find the neon rings I made but this is what I meant about luminosity in the material emitting light. |
Post by robert // Sep 27, 2008, 11:20am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Here I have neon lights, and an attempted fluorescent lighting situation. First one is just a regular neon light which works quite well, the second is an attempt to light the inside of a "box" using only a cylinder in the middle as a light source. You can't use light maps when upping the second bounces value as it distorts the image, and maps take longer anyway, good for some indoor stuff and such but not here (see examples in the manual).
OMG! I got it to work!!:D:banana::jumpy: I'll attach the settings I used as well, render time 1-2 minutes (it felt longer though:p). The cylinder is the default Vray material with ambiance set to 1, diffuse and spec 0, and the color was perfect white (255 Red, Green and Blue). The settings for GI were the regular medium settings, then I beefed up the 1st and 2nd bounces some and added a bunch of InterpSamples and some extra HemiSamples. |
Post by Breech Block // Sep 27, 2008, 11:21am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Great thread robert, nice to see all the info coming together in one place and there have been some reallly informative contributions so far. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 27, 2008, 11:22am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Paul this is not self illumination .... this is what he is talking about !
To Kerkythea you must say that it is not 1 render engine but 5 different
under 1 hood ! therefore the renderspeeds can be very fast and very slow depending on what you need ! Unbiased versions as well as biased !
Photon mapping is very fast and isnt very much slower then Vray but
is difficult to compare !
The render presets are very good and you will rarely need more then the presets !
Vray is probably a bit faster !
The material system in Kerkythea is a lot more powerfull though !
Yes it does self illumination pretty well as you can see !
Peter |
Post by splinters // Sep 27, 2008, 11:26am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Peter, how is your image different from mine other than you ramped up the luminosity..my render is more subtle but it seems to have helped Robert in his quest. No need to keep pulling Kerkythea out as the answer... |
Post by robert // Sep 27, 2008, 11:36am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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RAYMAN I just included the link to your post using FROOTEE as a kind of fluorescent light, I think that is a better example than the star you have here. |
Post by RAYMAN // Sep 27, 2008, 11:36am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Paul ,Roberts selfilluminationn examples with Vray are more like it !
My words on Kerkythea were just a short sidenote to his first post and
put things right about the speed !
I´m not Kerkys advocate !
Peter |
Post by splinters // Sep 27, 2008, 11:43am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Paul ,Roberts selfilluminationn examples with Vray are more like it !
I know...you turn up the luminosity etc. etc. I said that already. My example was how it was rendered for my illustration...a subtle glow...;) Robert saw what to do and sorted it for himself...job done!
I´m not Kerkys advocate !
Peter
Mmmmmm.........:p |
Post by Nez // Sep 28, 2008, 11:58pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Just as everyone's talking about self-illumination, you didn't specifically mention that Lightworks can also do light-emitting materials too.... I haven't been playing long enough to find out how well, but just want to stick up for old LW.... :D |
Post by robert // Sep 29, 2008, 8:59am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Just as everyone's talking about self-illumination, you didn't specifically mention that Lightworks can also do light-emitting materials too.... I haven't been playing long enough to find out how well, but just want to stick up for old LW.... :D
It does kinda do it, but I mean something where the light from the material colors the surrounding objects. Can't remember if LW did that specifically. I'll check it when I get home and make appropriate modifications from there. |
Post by TomG // Sep 29, 2008, 9:57am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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LW does do it, it has a setting to enable material lighting (in Model side ME, last small icon is Material Light Emission)
HTH!
TOm |
Post by splinters // Sep 29, 2008, 9:59am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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You can get it to emit light (as in to brighten the scene) but it will not have that nice 'neon glow' you get with Vray. |
Post by robert // Oct 4, 2008, 4:29pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Here is a render I did with dribble and the fur shader. I used it to make grass, look at the shadowing on the grass itself, got the different heights and the space around the object by having a relatively dense plane and just deforming it on the Workspace side using soft selection and some displacement mapping.
Only two lights, a spotlight for the main and an infinite for the filling of shadows.
Best of all: render time < 1min.:jumpy: |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 4, 2008, 4:37pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I mean something where the light from the material colors the surrounding objects. Can't remember if LW did that specifically.
Lightwave uses radiosity to achieve this effect.
It's not fast and definitely old school, but it gets the job done. |
Post by robert // Oct 16, 2008, 4:29pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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I wonder if maybe someone should post a link to this somewhere in the New Users or Visitors forums as this could be helpful to an overwhelmed beginner or confused transfers from other software packages. |
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