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Sailing Ship
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Sailing Ship // Work in Progress
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 19, 2007, 3:13am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Some of you may recall my earlier sailing ship model - a sort of cartoony Chinese Junk. This is my second attempt at modelling a sailing ship.
I've always loved tall ships and had several Airfix models (the Cutty Sark etc) I built as a young man (I came home drunk one night and accidentally sat on them :( D'oh!).
I remember a highlight of my visit to one London's great museums (the Science Museum IIRC) was discovering a vast floor full of models of ships reflecting Britians great maritime heritage.
This one is still a work in progress - still requires a set of sails that aren't furled. This was all modelled with tS except for the female figurehead (made and posed with Makehuman). It's fairly poly-heavy and I should probably give some thought to optimising the textures somewhat but I'm fairly pleased with the result so far.
This took around 40 hours to render on my machine - thanks to high poly's, fog, reflectance, and 4xAA with a shadow enabled IBL in tS 6.6. I hope to come up with a somewhat more dramatic setting at some stage but here it is for you guys to look at. As always any comments or critiques are appreciated. |
Post by GraySho // Jan 19, 2007, 3:27am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Looks excellent wiz. There's a good amount of detail already. How did you do the haze? Is it just simple fog? Whenever I use fog, the background and sky just blurs to a solid color. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 19, 2007, 3:45am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks GraySho. The fog is the tS fog. I rarely use the standard fog but I love the ground fog. It always takes a lot of tweaking to get right but the technique I use makes it fairly fast.
First I hide everything except the ground plain, the sky sphere and any objects I wist to use as distance cues then use the Render Area tool to try various fog settings. Provided you use only the fog dialogue box and the render screen area tool you can end up with a series of slices of renders of the scene showing different fog,heights, colours and densities.
I like to use a bit of ground fog in many of my outdoor scenes, to add a bit of 'atmosphere'!! |
Post by Steinie // Jan 19, 2007, 5:07am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Your Sailing Ship is outstanding!
At some point please try a rendering of your Ship in a dramatic scene. (night time with barrels firing, or a storm with heavy waves etc)
The things I pretended my model did when I was a youngster. Then I sat on it too....:D
Love it. |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 19, 2007, 6:48am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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INCREDIBLE, W!zard!
Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert on the tall square riggers, but this looks like a French Man-o-War.
If that's correct, I'm not too sure about the mast on the jib boom. Most square sails on the jib boom were flown from a cross boom lashed to the jib boom itself (like you have close to the fore-peak).
If this is from a photo and there actually was a ship with a jib-mast like that, I'll bet they didn't build too many like that, it would be a breaking point for any jib sail flown from the connecting fore-stay.
I didn't bother to erase all the tackle but sometimes they would hang "rat rigging" (the rope ladders) along the bottom jib shrouds (attached to that little upside-down "V").
... but then I could be totally wrong! Nice model! http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/images/icons/icon14.gif
3881 |
Post by Norm // Jan 19, 2007, 6:57am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Very pristine scenario. Can not help but wonder what one of them new superLuxuryCruise.ships would look like behind one of these old wood vessels.
Nice work dude! |
Post by Vizu // Jan 19, 2007, 7:00am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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INCREDIBLE Absolutly in all.
you do a amazing job with it, all the details WOW |
Post by MadMouse // Jan 19, 2007, 9:15am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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very very VERY!!! nice job Stephen.
I definately want to see a more 'moody' render. Like Steinie said:-
night time with barrels firing, or a storm with heavy waves etc
Please!!!!
BTW... Where I work (when I'm not pushing pixels around) Hornby Hobbies, has just brought out Airfix, so I might be able to replace those 'sat on' ships of yours. :D ;)
Great work mate
ATB
Steve |
Post by Methusela // Jan 19, 2007, 2:05pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Excellent image and model, W!zard! Take a look at the Feb '05 Runner up, as he captured an outstanding scene involving a storm.
http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2005/Feb/default.asp
That'd be awesome to see something like that with this ship! |
Post by TomG // Jan 19, 2007, 2:08pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Awesome! Lots of detail. Nice rendering too, it captures the look of an old painting even, not sure if its the colors or what, but it gets away from looking too rendered and moves to looking like a painting. Which I think really suits this kind of subject matter.
Looking forward to seeing more!
Tom |
Post by Heidi // Jan 19, 2007, 4:41pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Wow... you really did a nice job on her. I can't imagine the patience it took to do all that detail. |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 19, 2007, 10:49pm
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Well ... I said I was no expert, but my curiosity was really tweaked!
My face is a bit red ... http://images.matchdoctor.com/image/forums/emoticons/52.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:opener.emoticon('[e52]');)
The Apostol Felipe was just one of a fleet of Spanish Galleons known as the The Silver Galleons from the 1600's, that apparently used this jib mast. There were several other Spanish sailing vessels that also used this mast.
It's such an unusual sail arrangement and not one used by many ship builders of the time, so it's not seen too often, but I should have researched BEFORE embarrassing myself with my previous comment.
I still say your modeling detail is amazing and I hope to see it in some more stills! |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 20, 2007, 3:33am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well thanks for all the nice feedback folks.
Steinie and Madmouse - I'm planning on a moody scene, stormy and dramatic. Originally thought about doing two ships and trying for one of those "Battle of Trafalgar" types pics with the two ships firing on each other. Dunno now if my patience is up to doing another tall ship at this stage though!
Norm: good idea with a superluxurycruise ship. One day I hope to build a model of a ship called the Stratheden which was the liner that my family sailed on from Britain to New Zealand back in 1962 - I've tracked down a few reference pics but that's as far as I've got so far.
Methusela: It's pics like the one you linked to that are part of the inspiration for me.
TomG; thanks for the comment. Almost every texture on this model is multilayered with multiple alpha mapped colour, bump and reflectance shaders. I think (and hope) this gives a subtle depth to the textures that creates the effect you describe.
Heidi and others who mentioned the amount of detail - thanks but you can blame Madmouse for that! He's the one who sets the bar for detail work and I just try my best to keep up!
3dpdk; I'm not fluent but I can speak a sort of pidgin Nautical language - I know my port from my starboard and my yards from my sheets. Sadly I can't claim any great knowledge about old sailing ships but I can confirm this one is modelled on a French Man of War as you suspected in your first post.
Personally I wasn't as concerned about historical accuracy as I was about capturing the 'feel' of a tall ship. I used renders of a 'shop-bought' Vue model as a general reference guide. I've taken considerable 'artistic licence', different lights at the stern, different ratlines and gun port positions, simplified much of the ornamental woodwork at the bow and stern, added a few sheilds from an earlier scene. Just enough to make it a uniquely W!ZARD ship! It's intended to be a part of my Inthandonia Universe rather than an accurate replica of an Earthly vessel.
Oh yeah - it's no coincidence that I got given the DVD of 'Pirates of the Carribean. Dead Mans Chest' for christmas!!
I have another view cooking as I type and will post it here either tonight or tomorrow. This one has sails!
Thanks again to all who commented. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 20, 2007, 4:51am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Here's an update - I've added flags and sails and shown her from the stern quarter.
The sails still need a little work - they're a bit darker than I want and the mainsail is too long and intersects with the riggiing. I also need to add a little more rigging for the lines that hold the bottom of the sails in place - dunno their technical name. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Jan 20, 2007, 8:23am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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amazing.. I agree that the sails are a little dark (and dirty). Nice job! |
Post by Methusela // Jan 20, 2007, 12:50pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Superb! Love the wake and bow waves as well! |
Post by Heidi // Jan 20, 2007, 2:55pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Wow! That is outstanding! You've nailed it. I love the scene and the ship. The wake is right for the droop of the sails and everything. |
Post by pcread // Jan 21, 2007, 12:17am
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pcread
Total Posts: 21
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Many years ago, I experimented with a frigate, but gave up due to the sheer complexity. The project sits on an unreadable HDD from my old PC.
My three cornered hat goes off to you sir. |
Post by MadMouse // Jan 21, 2007, 3:11am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Bravo W!z Bravo Indeed!!! |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 21, 2007, 5:04am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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I also need to add a little more rigging for the lines that hold the bottom of the sails in place - dunno their technical name.
"sheet lines" like port main sheet, starboard upper fore-main sheet, main jib sheet, etc ... but a general term for all the lines used to adjust the yards is "the running rigging". I realize you're not going for historical accuracy but (since I started this) usually the running rigging was natural hemp and after it weathered a bit had a grayish-brown color while the "stays and shrouds" or the standing rigging, or all the support lines were coated with pitch and appeared black(ish).
Now the question is how did you do the sails?
Paul 3912 |
Post by dave_k // Jan 21, 2007, 1:24pm
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dave_k
Total Posts: 81
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Fantastic work! The shadows playing on the sails is an effective touch. The sails may be a tad dark but their texture is outstanding. |
Post by stoker // Jan 21, 2007, 1:34pm
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stoker
Total Posts: 506
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Fantastic work...:jumpy:...The Texturing and lighting are brilliant!! |
Post by chrisj // Jan 22, 2007, 3:03am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Damn!
You beat me to it Wixard.
I just started work on a sailing ship last week, very similar to your. Been researching it for weeks.
It'll take me a while to finish though.
Well done, it looks great. Love the rigging. Not sure about the prow keel shape though.
Cheers
Chris |
Post by Steinie // Jan 22, 2007, 3:11am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Wouldn't it be great to share your models at the end (with each other) and come up with a "Battle of Trafalgar" type rendering. I think that would be awesome!!! I hope you both consider that. |
Post by chrisj // Jan 22, 2007, 3:42am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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Based on my current plans, I'll be outgunned, but I'll pull a Francis Drake and rely on speed and cunning. |
Post by Shike // Jan 22, 2007, 5:27am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Wow ! This ship looks amazing! :D
I also had vague plans to make a battle scene with this type of ship...but would have been forced to buy one of thoose model-kits as reference. Still havn't found one I really like...and now I don't have to since you beat me to it ;)
If you have one ship with dirty sails, dirty wood and a pirateflag, the other a bit cleaner and some nation-flag, you could make a battle scene without the need of making a second one. If the ship's are going in opposites direction, lot's of smoke, explosions and waves...it would look great I think.
But, depending on amount of geometry....might kill your computer ;) |
Post by Steinie // Jan 22, 2007, 6:20am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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You guys peaked my interest and I found this cool web site. Might help future ship builders...
http://www.mamolimodel.com/eng/modclassici.htm
My first choice would be...
http://www.mamolimodel.com/eng/mv27.htm
What W!zard does with his will be followed with interest:) |
Post by RichLevy // Jan 22, 2007, 7:14am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I listed a free program last year that I found and use now to model my hulls, it is called freeship http://freeship.sourceforge.net/.
it is a surprisingly easy program to get basic hull shapes together in, even from lines drawings.
yahoo also has a group on it which is active and has ship files uploaded and stored for your use. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freeship_HTandT_Group/
in the old forums we had a thread of ship modeling sites and plans, i'd be happy to post more if anyone was interested :) kinda a hobby of mine, building real boats and ones in my computer :D
nice looking man of war wizard, better keep you away from my tiny frigate, she is very much outclassed by your vessel :D
rich |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 22, 2007, 8:59pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thank you all for the very kind comments. It's most appreciated.
I'm currently working on 'stormy sunset' type scene and have been challenged in trying to get a good sea texture.
Sheet lines - yeah them. Thanks Paul. I knew they were usually made of hemp (a hangover from my miss-spent youth!) and so they are coloured greyish brown though you can't see them close enough to tell.
As to how I made the sails - Non Uniform Rational B-Splines, otherwise known as NURBS - and a lot of experimenting and tweaking. The base textures were made with the GIMP and weathering marks and so on are done with multiple layers in the tS material editor. They're deliberately a bit dark because I want to give the impression that the canvas is wet from the rain. It was a good learning experience as I've not done a lot of work with NURBS planes before.
I'll probably hold off on the battle of Trafalgar type scene for a while though - I have a Vampire picture in my mind I want to get on to!
Thanks for the interesting links Steinie and RichLevy - I'll check them out ASAP.
Anyone have any tips for a good stormy sea texture? |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 25, 2007, 9:54am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Anyone have any tips for a good stormy sea texture?
A quick sketch, W!z
Nothing beats actual geometry when it comes to textures. I took a cube and sub-divided the top surface and used the deform tool to pull up the waves. The more the divisions - the more detailed the wave. The smaller ripples comes from a bump map using a wavy hair texture at 5 x 10 repititions.
Some observations:
Deep ocean color comes from reflected light, if the sky is gray, so is the water color.
The transparency of water is obscured by it's reflectivity and shiny-ness except in shallow water (when light reflected from the bottom can light objects below the surface) or with a steep view angle. (I wouldn't bother making it transparent.)
Waves formed by impact, ie. cannon ball splash, boat wake, etc appear in long continuous rolls. Waves formed by weather tend to be triangular shapes and can (and usually do) come from more than one direction.
Not all waves are the same height but 95% of the crests will form at the same height. If the seas are 4 to 7 feet the crest will only form between 6.5 to 7 feet. Any wave top less than 6.5 feet (in this case) usually will not crest.
While the storm is blowing one wave can be made up of several, progressively smaller waves. After the storm or wind the smaller waves and crests go away and the distance between the main waves stretch out becoming "ground swells", sometimes several hundred meters apart.This was a "sketch" and took about an hour to set up. My foam is a bit primitive but maybe this will give you something to build on.
BTW everything here is procedural, no texture images except for the stock tS "hair" bump.
Paul
3962
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This is about 90 miles off shore with about a 300 foot depth and a 3 foot sea. Notice that (except for within the wheel wash) the color of the water matches the sky color. The color within the foam is because the bubbles reflect light around themselves.
3964 |
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