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character: samari
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
character: samari // Work in Progress
Post by RichLevy // Jan 29, 2007, 8:24am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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modeled in silo and ts6.6
wires shown in ts7.1
this is an early attempt at a realistic male character, body type is very athletic.
next up is more detail to the chest and abdomen area . Then finish up the arms than onto the legs...
rich |
Post by kena // Jan 29, 2007, 1:12pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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looks good so far. I use the MakeHuman program for my people. I'm just not that good at modeling people. Much better at objects. |
Post by RichLevy // Jan 29, 2007, 3:39pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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thanks for the comment Kena. Makehuman is an awesome program, I use it on occasion also. Making characters is fun for me, I still have a great deal to learn though. I wish I were as good with other types of modeling :p
thanks for the comment.
rich |
Post by RichLevy // Jan 31, 2007, 10:30am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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small update |
Post by GraySho // Jan 31, 2007, 11:26am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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The v-shape back looks a bit overdone, arms to thin compared to the broad chest. I also think the ribcage should be lower in the center of the torso. Apart from that, well done. I know how hard it is to model human bodies (have tried it myself). |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 31, 2007, 12:09pm
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Yea .. I think GreyShow is right. Deltoids and pecs are a bit exaggerated compared to the rest of him, but this is definitely shaping up nicely. Are you using mirror modeling or are you doing the whole thing? He seems almost too symmetrically perfect.
Paul |
Post by RichLevy // Jan 31, 2007, 3:47pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Thanks for the nice feedback guys.
@Graysho
I did some of the suggestions you had, as far as the arm, they are still to be worked on... unfortunately I am a one trick pony as far as the body shapes I have modeled in the past, they were all marvel comic superheros types... I'll try to alter the proportions as I go thanks for pointing this out (I need the reminders).
@Paul
I model everything in the mirror modeler, it is a quick way to rough out the shape... when I have the model done I will change the symmetry some...
I have a long ways to go though, I still have to finish this model, than texture, than clothes... than maybe by than ts7.5 and the character tools will be out...
next small update |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 31, 2007, 8:22pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I tend to use Makehuman for ...er...making humans;) but before Makehuman was about I would download a reference model from 3dcommune or Randerosity or elsewhere. There are a variety of free human figures scattered about the net.
I would load one of these into trueSpace and build my own character mesh around it. This would give me the correct proportions and dimensions I needed and once I had the overall shape I could dispense with the reference figure and finalise my mesh as I saw fit. Then it was a matter of rigging a skeleton and setting the pose.
There is no need to re-invent the wheel - using an existing model as a reference guide to your own will teach you how to build a better character mesh in a much shorter time.
Hope this helps |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 2, 2007, 10:37pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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another small update, hopefully I'll get a chance to finish the modeling this weekend.
rich |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 2, 2007, 11:09pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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frontview
rich |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 3, 2007, 9:33am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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hehehe... the sound of crickets can be heard in the background :D
small update to the mesh, some detailing added to the chest, abdomen and lower legs as well as roughing out the hand. I will be working on the arm and wrist now.
rich |
Post by trueBlue // Feb 3, 2007, 12:21pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Very nice Rich! |
Post by kena // Feb 3, 2007, 6:02pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Did you fix the legs? I havent' ee to th forum while you poseted altose other ones, but since you said you wor working onthe upper body, I did nto say anytig before. The back of th knees seem a bit too narrow |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 3, 2007, 6:31pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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@Kena
I am always jumping around tweaking this and that. I just had a look at the back to see what you might be referring to, the back of the knees seem ok, but I see what you are talking about if you look at the front views that I posted.
Before I call an end to the modeling phase I will post a complete set of pictures to see what anyone has to say. I think I have everything basically there and decent... but it is far from perfect...
Practice makes perfect.
@TrueBlue
Thanks for the complement, nice to get some input :D
@Wizard
Thanks for the pointers. I can appercaite the use of reference models as you suggest, I usually keep a library of models and parts that either I have created or others. Makehuman was used to to copy the edge flow lines from, I like the way they do them on their models, by now I have done 3 heads using the edge flow from their heads, I am getting better at doing them.
Also you will see that the legs on this character also have similar edgeflow to MakeHuman models. I do not like the neck or chest area of their models, and the arms don't do it for me (though they do look better than the ones I make)
Still it is always just a learning process. I am not very good at creating scenes but I do enjoy trying to model characters. I have lots to learn still, but I find it a very relaxing hobby and something that I enjoy a great deal.
Thanks again for taking the time to comment. :D
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 4, 2007, 12:10am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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arms are looking done, I'll work on the feet, than do a proportions check... than I can work on the textures and the clothes.
Rich |
Post by ed_baker // Feb 4, 2007, 4:21am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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arms are looking done, I'll work on the feet, than do a proportions check... than I can work on the textures and the clothes.
Rich
Having never even attempted to model a human, I have to start by saying that this is looking really good. There is only one complaint that I have. The hands appear to be too small, and I noticed some twisting towards the ends of the forearms in the wrist area.
Ed |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 4, 2007, 5:37am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Good points Ed, the hand I just increased the size based on your comment. As for the twisting, that is part of the geometry for a forearm, in order to make the forearm act normally in animation, it is common to twist the geometry around the forearm. I cleaned up the geometry in that area to smooth it out though... nice eye :D
Thanks for taking the time to look and offer your crits.:D
Rich |
Post by ed_baker // Feb 4, 2007, 5:49am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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As for the twisting, that is part of the geometry for a forearm, in order to make the forearm act normally in animation, it is common to twist the geometry around the forearm.
Ah, that makes sense. Didn't think about the mesh needing to twist around the forearm bones. Keep up the good work!
Ed |
Post by Methusela // Feb 4, 2007, 1:54pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Yeah, the twisting concept is correct, but you need to move the start of it closer to the elbow, I think. Also, maybe the neck needs to be a little longer.
Great topology though. |
Post by rj0 // Feb 4, 2007, 5:04pm
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rj0
Total Posts: 167
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Arms still look a bit odd. The shoulder/bicep connection, for example. Here's a reference pic of a fairly similar pose:
http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/BicepsBrachii.html
Overall, though, really good! Nice progress!
rj |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 4, 2007, 6:00pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Thank you Rjo and Methusela, it's good to have fresh eyes looking in on the mesh. I am not so experienced with semi realistic character modeling. As far as the topology being good... err... well... I wouldn't say that. My work tends to be spotty, some areas I am pretty good at, and than others... well... I stink :D
I think I need to get some head on and side views up, they show a slightly different picture than the perspective views that I have been posting.
My arms as I had mentioned before are not perfect, I really do need to spend some time working on them more, this one I am just going to clean up the best I can than move onto the next step.
Thanks guys for taking the time to comment on my WIP, I really do apperciate your comments and help.
Rich |
Post by kena // Feb 4, 2007, 8:02pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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It is indeed looking good so far. I still have problems with the knees and elbows, but that may be just the static picture. they remind me of an ant waist for some reason. Not that I should complain, I couldn't model a tribble, much less a man. |
Post by 3dpdk // Feb 5, 2007, 2:06pm
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Ok Rich, now you are about to enter the world of skeleton rigging!
I guess you have done that before but for you and anyone inspired by your model, please make sure you have him saved as an object with an extra backup without bones. The scene you've been building him in should be backed up and start the boning in a newly named scene.
Fore those who haven't attempted skeleton rigging on complex meshes, it can be very touchy at the very least. If you don't have backups you can find yourself left with a totally unrecognizable mesh, beyond repair. I would hate to see all this excellent modeling go down the tubes.
Keep us posted on the animation process. Any tip you may discover along the way would be very much appreciated. (I have experienced the above scenario in spite of my own advise!)
Paul |
Post by kena // Feb 5, 2007, 2:14pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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now there is something I would like to see a tutorial on. the official one only bends a can or something. How to you add for things like legs - arms - hands - fingers - feet - toes. I got DAZ studio because I couldn't figure that one out. |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 5, 2007, 3:19pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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The sad thing about TrueSpace is the number of great artists that have moved onto other software packages because of the state of the present character animation tools. I am hoping that by the time I get this textured and the cloths/armour finished, I will be able to rig and animate him in TS7.5.
(else I will just animate him in another package than bring him back into TS for scene work. I have a couple of ideas for some nice animations for him).
Rich |
Post by Steinie // Feb 5, 2007, 3:30pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Rich I haven't said anything in this thread but I've been following along and enjoying your work! Keep it going!:) |
Post by 3dpdk // Feb 7, 2007, 2:21am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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The problem with a tutorial on skeleton rigging and animation is that it's really a broad enough subject to make an entire book. If "Skeleton Rigging for Dummies" was available, I'd buy it in a heart beat.
I bought Animation Master because it seemed to specialize in character animation. It does, but to create anything in AM is not as easy or intuitive as tS. To create a scene in AM is so difficult you will find a lot of their example videos take place in the default checkerboard environment, but to export a tS mesh back and forth between the two is way to complex. I don't even know if the animation will transport back into tS or not.
I'm not saying it can't be done in trueSpace. I have one female character that I have successfully added bones and I can make her walk across the floor but it took MANY attempts, many mangled meshes, and much frustration.
One of the MOST IMPORTANT things I learned:
While rigging and especially while adjusting the joints, muscles and tendons, do not move the mesh relative to it's starting position in the scene ... meaning the position where you attached the skeleton to the skin. AT ALL! If you need to inspect the wireframe do it by rotating your view around the object.
I realize that this shouldn't make a difference but it seems as if tS uses this start position as a reference when a change is made to the skeleton and what vertices are affected by that change. If you have moved the mesh, you will find that some of the "change affected" vertices will jump back to this starting position. If you then try to "undo" or manually repair by entering point edit mode ... well ... best to back up your work at EACH successful step in the process. Literally!
I'll be interested to hear if you have similar mishaps. |
Post by RichLevy // Feb 7, 2007, 12:44pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Hey Paul
I did the ts bones thing to death a couple of years back. At one point myself and a couple of other guys from the GS Forums decided to map out ts bones in a comprehensive document. for 2 months I lived and breathed ts bones :D... documenting everything I could find, all of the quirks, snags, pointers I could uncover...
We thought we had done a decent job... in the end I think we were close, but we missed many of the little gottchas that befall the bones system...
Eventually I gave up and started exploring other programs... 3 years later I am still waiting, still hopeful that the character animation tools in TS will be straightened out.
It's no biggie, texturing and clothing this guy will keep me amused for awhile. I usually lose interest in my characters and move on to do something else... it's time I work one 100% thru... modeling, uv's, texturing, clothing and than animations... I need the practice, and I have the time...
I just rewatched Seven Samurai last night again, I like the idea of an older, wiser on the fringe Ronin Samurai as my main character. I have many evil villians I have made over the years so I could provide my little hero many opponents to face as he goes on his journey.
Well, back I go... my little ronin samurai needs some clothes...
@Stienie
Thanks for the moral support :D I'll try to keep this moving along at as steady of a pace as I can.
Rich |
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