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Warning: Nudity... Fairy Nuff?
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Warning: Nudity... Fairy Nuff? // Work in Progress
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 31, 2007, 3:37am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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So the question is: what do Fairies have at the bottom of their gardens? Smaller fairies?
I was looking for something a little brighter and cheerier after my Vampire work. Here is what I've got so far.
Butterflies were freebies of the Net from here (http://toucan.web.infoseek.co.jp/3DCG/3ds/FlowerModelsE.html) as was one of the flowers. Other plants made with plant studio (IIRC) and the fairies were made with Makehuman 0.9.
Still a work in progress I'm interested in any feedback. What do you think? |
Post by Chester Desmond // Jan 31, 2007, 3:50am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Looks nice so far. A couple things I thought of while viewing:
The soil (while pretty good looking in itself) looks too parched and cracked to have that lovely green grass growing from it and seems to cut off for the sole purpose of having the fairy character exposed (literally) .. In my mind fairies are creatures that are "good" and visit children etc and while nudity is wonderful and all, I can't help but imagine this little lady crouched on someone's bedpost and the "eeeeew" that would ensue.
Speaking from a traditional perspective, I guess, and going from your past work.
Also a little DOF on the building and wall might look nice. |
Post by Steinie // Jan 31, 2007, 4:47am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Besides the fact MY fairy would look like this.... she's stopped visiting me....
I would soften all the colors to start. Stick with the pastel colors especially in the wings. The brown looks great on bats but not fairies. I would expect the atmosphere to be more mystical. |
Post by prodigy // Jan 31, 2007, 5:20am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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nice work, my recomendation, try to make more flat the winds, or maybe copy the wings from the butterflys..
Other point, is the lighting.. i think you can add the lightsun with a little of yelow...
Good work! :jumpy: |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Jan 31, 2007, 8:48am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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First thing that struck me, especially after you mention a brighter, cheerier pic, is how mighty miserable she looks. The other thing is the brown viens in the wings, makes it look a bit menacing - a silvery colour would make it a bit more magical.
I can see that classic Wizard style evolving though, will be interesting to watch one of your pics develop. |
Post by GraySho // Jan 31, 2007, 9:00am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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The wings look a bit scary for a fairy. Like tentacles. I suggest more dragonfly-like wings. You might consider animating them and add motion blur. And it needs more and golden sunlight as prodigy said. I have also found a way to brighten and soften images in a nice way (PSP). Duplicate the background layer (your render) and set blending mode to "Hard Light". Add gaussian blur to the new layer (radius 5-10) and play with the opacity slider. Eventually you have to brighten up the new layer as well. Gives a nice and dreamy effect. |
Post by RichLevy // Jan 31, 2007, 10:42am
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RichLevy
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not that nudity bothers me, I'm all for naked, beautiful women flying around freely. I think that they could use some clothing, even if it were a very shear cloth/silk type thing.
nice start though.
rich |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 31, 2007, 11:35am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Nudity is great! I practice it at least twice a day! [sorry ... I know, you didn't need THAT mental image!]
Artistically speaking; as long as it's not for the sake of nudity it's self. In this case, I have no idea if a fairy wares cloths or not. I think Tinkerbell wore a ball gown and other images I've seen they seemed to be in sheer night gowns. But like I said, I've never seen a fairy so who knows!
But I think in most stories or movies I've seen concerning them, they always seemed to glow a bit which has a tendency to obscure their state of undress..
I like the dragon-fly wings on the smaller fairy - the larger fairy's wings seem bat-like. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Jan 31, 2007, 11:42am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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In this case, I have no idea if a fairy wares cloths or not.
Fairies wear boots! I tell you no lies... |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 31, 2007, 2:36pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well, thanks for the thought provoking input folks. Some interesting comments here.
Re the total nudity: I spent a long time thinking about this and had had originally intended a more Disney-esque character with the traditional filmy clothing. When saving the character I needed a name and settled on Titania who is/was the Queen of all the Fairies. Somehow she then became very un-Tinkerbelle-like.
To my mind Fairies are Nature Elementals and express the natural sensuousness and beauty of the world of trees and plants. I've always felt that the fairies that we see most often in literature and film are both overly humanised and sanitised. I think this is in part to make them more socially acceptable and to also civilise and christianise them.
Fairies can not be judged by human standards. They embody the beauty of the rose and the sharpness of the thorn - they are the spirits that ripen the fruit but also rot the fruit and curdle the milk, not because they are sinful or bad or naughty but because that is their nature. Fairies can bless an infant with good looks, wisdom and good fortune but they can also steal babies in the night. They hold to no concept of right or wrong or morality such as 'civilised' humans do.
As nature spirits they are both beautiful and terrible - fairy gifts and blessings always have a price.
Clothing is a human thing - nature does not need clothing. A flying creature with clothing is also aerodynamically unsound! You don't put a nightie on a sparrow or a hawk.
The wings - yes they are somewhat batlike (actually dragon-like to my mind). The brown colour is an oversight on my part - it's supposed to be the same colour as the rest of her flesh. Ooops! :o
Thanks to WWOTW for pointing out the fact that she looks miserable. I was going for 'sadness' in the big fairy's expression and the little ones posture. This was deliberate on my part because I figure any nature spirit these days must be somewhat depressed about the state of the global ecology. The story here is that the little fairy is exhausted from trying to repair the damage caused by unthinking humans and the big fairy is trying, with mixed results, to help.
Thanks for the suggestions re the sunlight - the light set-up here is very much a WIP and the end result will have a warmer sunnier look. I also intend some foggyness to suggest more of a mystical quality - and to seperate the subject from the forground (I'm not a fan of DOF usually. It's an artifact of the limitations of a camera lens and to me it often looks as artificial as 'lens flare' unless it's used very carefully).
Thanks for the suggestions re the glowy dreamy effect GraySho - I will certainly explore that further.
I'm going to re-think the wings, given the response. I have a half finished dragon lying about somewhere so I can recycle these batty ones there ;).
Thank you all very much for taking the time to comment - it has helped a lot and given me a better idea of what to do next. Watch this space for updates! ;) |
Post by Methusela // Jan 31, 2007, 5:48pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Hey! I have a meaningful reply! Stop the presses! I read through your reasoning behind the nudity, and I couldn't help but think of the fairie (sp?) from Fantasia 2000. I think it perfectly embodies everything you just said. It does have clothes, but they're very thin and you can see the very sensual and femenine beauty in her and her seamless integration with nature.
http://www.jeffyorkes.com/images/JY3D_Fantasia2000.jpg
http://www.andreasdeja.de/Wallpaper/fantasia-2000-wallpaper-9-1024.jpg
Those were the best pictures I could find...
Watch the movie, it's actually really good! |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 31, 2007, 8:08pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks Methusela - sorry for getting all deep and meaningful - I must have forgotten my meds this morning!;)
While the Fantasia Fairy is undeniably beautiful she is somewhat sexless - she IS a Disney creation after all! I believe that the vast majority of Fairies in modern literature and film are sanitised, desexed and overly humanised. probably to attract the child market and not offend the christians, the censors and the moralists.
But when we read adult Fairy stories, like "Once" by James Herbert, or Neil Gaimans "Stardust", the true sensuousness and sexuality of Fairies is revealed. Fairies have a seductivness and a mystical glamour that is largely sexual in nature, despite the more wholesome spin applied by Disney and so on. Like the beautiful Witch who is really an old hag, fairies enchant, ensnare and seduce the unwary.
Nature itself is essentially and unavoidably sexual - it's ALL about the propogation of the species, spreading those genes and that means (in most cases anyway) sexuality. If fairies are nature spirits then they are also highly sexual.
It's summer here and as I type the cicadas are chirping in the afternoon sunshine. At times the sound can be very loud. The sound is made by rubbing the back legs together and it is a mating call - that essentially summer sound of cicadas is nothing more or less than bugs calling for sex!! This is the natural and unfettered, uncivilised, un-human (and of course therefore un-religious) type of sexuality that fairies really embody.
Even in the story of Cinderella the Fairy Godmother's actions all conspire to get the girl together with the handsome prince. Cinderella, a lowly pot-girl, uses fairy magic to convince the prince, (holder of the best genetic material), that she is beautiful and worthy of marriage. It works too - he marries her. Really though if her genetic material was of the finest quality, she wouldn't BE a pot-girl, nor would she need a handsome prince or fairy magic to ensnare him.
Ultimately, there is nothing wholesome or innocent about fairies but nor are they evil - terms like 'good' and 'bad' have no meaning for them. They are the guardian spirits of the woods and forests and their only real enemy is the lumber merchants who seek to clearfell all the trees and the capitalists who seek to exploit them and change them into a marketable commodity.
Two things we can be fairly sure of; fairies are interested in sex and they are never exactly what they appear to be.
I think I'd better go take my medication now!!;) ;)
Ramble over. |
Post by kena // Jan 31, 2007, 8:28pm
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kena
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If you overlay the dirt texture with some warm brown, it might look better... more like heathy soil. Maybe put a few "soil boulders" here and there as most gardens don't have rolling hills so much as pieces of things randomly scattered about. Maybe recycle the wings to a "dragonfly"? |
Post by Nez // Jan 31, 2007, 11:30pm
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Nez
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W!zard, if you haven't read it, you might also enjoy Holly Black's 'Valiant', which is quite an interesting modern-day faery story... it too shows the potential sinister side and the 'not what they appear' qualities you mention.
Interested to see how this shapes up - I was guessing the lighting was WIP as it didn't really seem to have the kind of look you tend to go for - seemed a bit gloomy, despite the sunshine. The comments on the soil seem reasonable too - does look possibly a bit too dry. But I like the concept, particularly of them trying to fix the damage... Lokking forward to the update... |
Post by Methusela // Feb 1, 2007, 6:57am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I was going to suggest reading up on paganism (Not devil worship, as it has come to be associated with. Paganism is worship of the Earth, and all of its effeminate beauty.). A fair place to start would be the DaVinci Code, if that's not too pop culture. Then again, you sound like you understand it pretty well already. You are right about the Disney fairie being de-sexed, but I guess I was suggesting that you try the same sort of rough style at least, 'cos I thought the idea of her floating instead of flying and all of the wispy movements were very much more in tune with nature and its unpredictability than our classical view of fairies. I loved how she didn't really have a clearly defined ending point, her... um... wisps? Yeah, her wisps floated around so elegantly and beautifully that they really blurred the line for me between nature and humanity. She always seemed to be connected to the Earth, she was always wrapping herself around trees and even when she was flying rather high up, she always seemed to be more growing than flying. I just thought it was a really cool idea, and would absolutely love to see something like that done in TrueSpace, as it's quite beyond my skills at the moment. Also, I'm curious now; were fairies derived from Sirens? |
Post by kena // Feb 1, 2007, 2:25pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Finally something I can reliably do. I'm a wiz at Internet research!
Faerie : from the Latin term for "fate" (fata), faeries (or fairies) are a "host of supernatural beings and spirits who occupy a limbo between earth and heaven" (Guiley). This is in recognition of the skill faeries had in predicting and even controlling human destiny. Faeries could be either good or evil creatures, and at various points in history have been confused with witches and demons
from http://faerie.monstrous.com/#_Toc524843379 |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 1, 2007, 3:47pm
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jamesmc
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We had a Fairee in our military outfit real name. It was always a pleasure to hear roll call...
Adams, Baker, Cherry, Dick, Endrick, Fairee, etc. :D
Anyway,nice render. I always imagined fairies to have small wings that beat very fast, but maybe that's just from the cartoons I saw. (hummingbird type wings.) |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Feb 1, 2007, 5:56pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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A few comments from the peanut gallery if I may :)
I'm having just a bit of difficulty placing your main character into scale with the scene. Even with the grass in the background it's hard to gain an instantly recognizable reference for size. Compounded a bit by the yet smaller fairy on the fairy queen, though it is a strong focus you wouldn't want to lose in the scene. A strong very granular bump map on the soil may help some.
From photography, I know that close up images such as this would have strong depth of field. Trouble is that it would obliterate the background into a blur if done authentically. A pinhole camera with an extra long exposure would be the way around that issue, but it would cause moving objects to blur instead (while stationary objects such as the house remain sharp).
I sense you are going more for a "painted still" effect rather than strict photorealism so appropriately detailed objects may be a better cue. A ladybug in the image, well placed grass both in front and behind the fairy would help with depth (doesn't have to cover those previously mentioned features, if anything reaffirms that there's more garden behind you.
The main fairy's head appears a bit downturned gazing out of the scene and the posture slightly resembles the wood carving on the front of a ship. I'm thinking the extended arm could be bent a little more with the face looking at the small fairy or at least the eyes.
Wings you've already stated. A delicate fragile effect probably does well here to reinforce the idea of small scale.
Though it's not what you're aiming for I would point out, perhaps crazily, that clothes don't have to repress sexuality but often enhance it. If that were false Lingerie' would have no purpose. Your reasons are well explained, nevertheless and I think you've justified it to your audience (of course, should we always have to justify our artwork? Nope!)
P.K. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 2, 2007, 3:02am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well this is turning into a very interesting thread. Fairy aerodynamics and fashion!
@Kena, I'm still experimenting with lighting and texture for the dirt - I've darkened it and shined it a little to suggest more dampness. Thanks for the suggestion and also the internet research.
@Nez, hi mate, thanks for the reading suggestion, I'll keep a look out for that book at the library. Yep the present lighting is a simple 'placeholder' setup. I'm almost certain to use an IBL and two infinites for the sun, one with mapped shadows and one with Ray shadows. I rather like that set up and have had satisfactory results with it in the past.
@Methusela, I'm actually pretty well read on paganism, Wicca, folk tales, superstitions and comparative religions too. I've always had an insatiable curiosity about pretty much anything really!!
Re the Fantasia Fairy - she also represents the spirit of the music I think and the flowy and almost tenous nature of the animation reflects the visual sense of the music probably more so than being an 'accurate' rendition of a real fairy. At least that's my take on it. I'm sure there is a trueSpace animation master somewhere who could create a tS version but it's outside my capabilities. :o
Are Fairies derived from Sirens? I'd say not directly. Supernatural beings are found in all cultures, earth spirits, goblins, fairies. gnomes, pixies, sprites and so on all the way to the really evil ones, succubi and incubi and even vampires. Sirens are probably just a Classical Greek variation on the theme.
@jamesmc; wow that's an interesting mental picture! A miliary fairy! It would need camo gear and a weapon - could make an intriguing subject for a picture.
@Prof K. Yeah the scale is somewhat ambiguous - it's not helped by the characters floating about with no obvious contact with the landscape. I'm trying to use a subtle fog to visually group the fairies with the butterflies in the foreground with everything else slightly affected by atmosphere. Hopefully this will give enough of a scale cue. I've also considered adding a snail on the ground to assist this but that's not happened yet. Fairies do come in all sizes: Shakespeares fairies were all human sized, the Cottingly Fairies were very small.
As I've said elsewhere I don't necessarily think that it's always appropriate to simulate a photograph and the DOF limitations of a lens. For me a big part of the power of CG imagery is that it allows us to transcend the limitations of lenses and apertures and film speeds etc. I don't know about a 'painted effect' but I am after a sort of real/surreal effect. If it's visually unsettling in the right way (ambiguous scales for example) it can add to the picture, I think. The trick is to make it look deliberate.
Chuckle: Well spotted Sir! The original fairy is in fact the re textured figurehead from my recent sailing ship pics! I've remodelled her somewhat so that she is more accurately looking at the small fairy and given her a slight smile and some eyebrows and of course some new wings.
I agree with you that we should not have to justify our artwork and I hope that's not what it looks like I'm doing here. I do like my images to have a consistant internal logic though, even though it's a fantasy image I still like it to have it's own brand of realness (rather than reality).
Finally, a note on Fairy aerodynamics. I've never really seen fairies as flying like hummingbirds with very rapidly moving wings (well I've never seen fairies at all but you get my drift!). I always imagine them as being very light and moving more like a butterfly with a mixture of fluttering and gliding, with the wings more often than not being comparatively, still like a gull soaring on the breeze.
The next update is slowly rendering on my main machine as I type - the combination of fog and transparency plus a shadow enabled IBL means it's chugging along fairly slowly so I'm off now to catch some TV time. Will post the update as soon as I can.
Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread. |
Post by Shike // Feb 2, 2007, 3:31am
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Shike
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I like the direction you've choosen ! :D
The only Fairy I ever made (only drawing though) was nude.... and I might have made a mistake since I called it Pixie... not sure what the difference is :confused: |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Feb 2, 2007, 5:36am
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ProfessorKhaos
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lol. I think pixies are the magical faries you see if you try and down 10 pixie sticks (straws full of flavored sugar for the uninitiated) in under a minute!
I guess by "painted still" I mean something more of the sort of scene you would see when a very talented painter captures distant and near objects with equal clarity. Depth of field isn't a consideration when people draw what they see. Their eye does the refocusing unconsciously. Photography strongly emphasizes exactly what is viewable through the current lens and exposure settings. A lot of time is spent in programs like photoshop to get back dreamy qualities that automatically get included in paintings from the get go. |
Post by kena // Feb 2, 2007, 6:29am
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kena
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I like the direction you've choosen ! :D
The only Fairy I ever made (only drawing though) was nude.... and I might have made a mistake since I called it Pixie... not sure what the difference is :confused:
from the Wikipedia:
Pixies or Piskies as they are known in Cornwall are mythical creatures of English folklore, considered to be particularly concentrated in the areas around Devon and Cornwall, suggesting some Celtic origin for the belief and name. In regional dialect, these mischievous little folk are sometimes referred to as piskies/piskeys or the little people. They are usually depicted as wingless, with pointed ears, and often wearing a green outfit and pointed hat. Sometimes their eyes are described as being pointed upwards at the temple ends.
Stranly enough I was reading that article just last week, so had it in my History folder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixie |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 2, 2007, 5:11pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Nature spirits come in all shapes and sizes, some with wings, some without, but they are found pretty much all over the world abd so there are dozens of names for essentially the same thing. I imagine some child somewhere asking his Dad what makes the flowers grow. Dad, with no knowledge of plant biology blames it on the little people, who are also responsible for stealing single socks and your favourite pen! This universal response leade to te idea of fairies, pixies, devas, and so forth.
One of my all-time favourite things about little people is the way they are treated in Thailand. Every Thai building has a 'spirit house', located in the sunniest and most pleasant corner of the property. The Spirit House is very ornate and beautiful and everyday the householders burn incense and leave food offerings for the spirits and little people. The aim is to make the Spirit House such a nice place for spirits to hang out in that they stay away from the human homes and so cause them no mischeif. I think that's a great idea!
@ Prof K; Ok then given your definition I am going for a 'painted still' effect. The idea of capturing what the eye/mind can see rather than what the camera lens can see is really what I'm aiming for.
Anyway, here's the most recent update. I've addressed many of the previously raised comments. The transparency of the alpha plane that is the ivy on the wall does not agree with the fog so I'll probably add the fog in post processing. I'll also attempt a dreamier glowier look using Post Processing too. I'm still not sure about the wings either but I'm much happier with the lighting now. Once again any feedback is gratefully received. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Feb 2, 2007, 7:02pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Much better! Especially the lighting and I think you've done well with the posture too. This brings the focus within the frame of the picutre. Feels like about early afternoon on a nice sunny day.
Now if only I could do this stuff as well... always easier to suggest than to do for myself. You're on to something quite good with this one Wizard!
P.K. |
Post by kena // Feb 2, 2007, 9:07pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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very easy to sugest... here is mine. The wings: use a transparency map and pastel colors. Maybe only two-tones though. The dirt actualy looks more parched than it did before. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 8, 2007, 2:53am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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OK, here's the latest developments.
Some subtle adjustments. Wings are more transparent. Ground texture has been modified, distance fog has been added using post processing and the Zrender.tsx (and my second favourite program of all time, The GIMP).
Oh yeah and I've added a mushroom (Amanita Muscaria or Fly Agaric) as a scale cue as much as anything else.
I'm feeling like I'm almost as far as I want to be with this one so any last minute comments, now's the time to make them!
TIA
WZRD:D |
Post by kena // Feb 8, 2007, 6:07am
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kena
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Her wings are nice, but colorless. Is she having a bad wing day? Seriously, the brownish color to the wings puts me off a bit. Normally when I think of Farie wings, I think pastels.
The ground now looks more like rock than dirt. Perhaps warm up the brown a bit by pushing it slightly to the red? Maybe put a smile on her face?
You might also want to add a few blotches of "wetter" earth around, and maybe a pebble or two for comparison.
The mushroom however looks perfect to me. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Feb 8, 2007, 6:45am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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First off the picture is beautiful! I really like it and wouldn't even mention the following if you hadn't mentioned the scale cue of the mushroom.
My brain tells me (and my brain seems to be using the wall as a reference and is under the assumption that it is a high wall) that the pixie is nearly human sized, and the grass, mushrooms and butterflies are all gigantic. Knowing that it is a pixie, which I think of as Tinkerbell sized, I can compare her size to the mushroom, but then the grass seems too high in relation to the mushroom, and all seem too big (or too close to) the wall.
I'm not quite sure what it is, but the wall seems to make it difficult to figure out the planes of focus. ie how high is the wall and how close are all the objects to it? How close is the wall to the house?
Also I think the mushroom steals focus from the pixie; the butterflies provide a good scale cue (assuming they are regular sized butterfiles) in assessing the pixie's size. I would also add a very slight blur to her wings, physically it would be hard to glide that close to the ground.
Sorry to nitpick, it really is a very well done image. |
Post by GraySho // Feb 8, 2007, 7:15am
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GraySho
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I agree, the scaling looks a bit off. The postwork effect I mentioned would look like this:
http://www.spacerat.at/temp/fairy.jpg
I don't know if that's what you want/like, but it helps to spiff up color and lighting and adds something like a softener effect, without blurring into unrecognizable pixel stew. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Feb 8, 2007, 7:47am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Gorgeous! ... is that a specific filter or a series of steps? |
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