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Did we start off on the wrong foot?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Did we start off on the wrong foot? // Roundtable
Post by parva // Jan 7, 2009, 11:52pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Regarding Vray. I was also one who pushed Vray as Renderer for trueSpace in the early Beta Days and I was very very happy as it got the announcement.
Unfortunatly, and here my fears became true, it was never intended to be like the original Vray. The statement that a 799 buck renderer can't be sold for a free software isn't true at all. OK I don't know how many Buyers Sketchup has but here you can also get Vray.
Maybe for those who are really interested in Vray should contact Asgvis (http://www.asgvis.com/) and ask if they can extend,polish and further develop the Vray4tS renderer.
Well, hopefully tS gets a plugin for a standalone renderer (the best choice imho.
Buying a renderer to use with only one CG program is especially in the current days a bad choice).
No one makes anything for free, thats a dogma. Asking Developers to port a renderer to trueSpace enjoys me everytime with the same answer.
"As long as there are not enough interests to buy it, we don't make it" :D |
Post by brotherx // Jan 8, 2009, 12:11am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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For me it is all about stills. I have very little interest in animation, for now anyway, and also have no serious interest in the real-time renderer and while TS is free, I'd already paid for the software and the free is not why I am using it.
Basically, what I am saying is to me, unless the vray has continued support even though you can't buy it any more, TrueSpace is basically dead and next to useless to me. Even if another renderer becomes available why should I have to buy another one when I have a perfectly usable one....for the time being anyway.
If I had the spare cash right now I'd be off to buy Cararra 7 or something...At least it has a renderer. Yeah, I know, switch to model, but what happens when that is removed??? |
Post by CdeB // Jan 8, 2009, 1:27am
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CdeB
Total Posts: 160
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The loss of Vray comes as a bit of a shock when I was hoping for an update to the Captain' s Blog:(
I take Tom and parva's pionts onboard and I hope we don't loose Prodigy permanently....
The economic climate is something else... and given I was told over Christmas by an IT guy (which I haven't independently verified) that Microsoft were laying of 18,000 worldwide, I was actually fearing something even worse:(
This will probably be the worst recession I have experienced in my lifetime. The company that handles my pension's bravely sent me a graph from the last 2 years showing their progress...2007 a 10-15% gain in value and 2008 a 30-40% loss.
On a practical note (and probably not an answerable request) my main fear of the future of late was the thought of loosing Lightworks when we go over to 100% workspace. And so it would be good to have reassurances from Caligari that when workspace is the sole trueSpace environment we also get at least one off line renderer....
Chris |
Post by Nez // Jan 8, 2009, 2:41am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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For me it is all about stills. I have very little interest in animation, for now anyway, and also have no serious interest in the real-time renderer and while TS is free, I'd already paid for the software and the free is not why I am using it.
Likewise - for many of us, it is still about stills and 'beauty' renders. I'm marginally interested in real-time (for architectural walk-throughs it could be cool) but can't even run workspace currently. I'm a long-time tS user and did pay for some previous versions, so I haven't just jumped in now tS is free either.
On a practical note (and probably not an answerable request) my main fear of the future of late was the thought of loosing Lightworks when we go over to 100% workspace. And so it would be good to have reassurances from Caligari that when workspace is the sole trueSpace environment we also get at least one off line renderer....
Agreed - I think everyone wants that assurance as we've not had any verdict of what rendering will be available at v8, apart from the realtime...
Better hope Jack gets cracking on his add-ons....
Guess there's not much point my making the effort to learn the workspace side as I now can't get Vray so I need to stick with Lightworks so I may as well stay on the Model side anyway.... |
Post by splinters // Jan 8, 2009, 11:44am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I, like Tom, was one of those who thrashed out Vray when it was in beta. I supplied plenty of images for promotion and was given a free copy of Vray as a reward for my efforts. so can't complain about paying for it. I was hoping to see it grow as a renderer but, hey, I will get over it.
Having said that, I am a big fan of Lightworks and continue to use it a lot.
I am also a big fan and supporter of Dribble which now looks like a real winner if it gets ported to workspace. But maybe Simon cannot see a future for it and has stopped developing...its all a but vague around here nowadays. |
Post by teamonkey // Jan 9, 2009, 8:59am
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teamonkey
Total Posts: 107
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My apologies for defending the MS acquisition. It seems those who were worried that it was going to lead to the demise of offline rendering were right to worry. I guess I have egg on my face. :o
You weren't the only one that thought that MS could only help TS. What gets me is that a huge company like MS can't float VRay, even with the licensing fees that they would have to pay the Vray people?
It's also a sad joke to say that the hard economic times call for belt tightening. I mean, this is a VERY small corner of MS we're talking about.
The only explanation is that TS is semi-autonomous and has to sink or swim on their own financing.
Now I know why people move to free software. Blender and it's upcoming 2.5 gui improvements is looking better and better. Or at least Kerkeythea
(not sure if that is free software or not...
May you live in interesting times indeed, says the ancient curse! :rolleyes: |
Post by teamonkey // Jan 9, 2009, 9:22am
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teamonkey
Total Posts: 107
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Seems the vast majority of users were happy using lightworks or existing real-time renderer. It is unfortunate but that is indeed the reality. To chastize or beat-up on Caligari and Microsoft over this is counter-productive, considering they left the door open for users to purchase Vray for quite awhile. Place the blame where it belongs and realize that it was demand that forced the issue.
It's one thing to expect users to pay approx $300 for Vray when TS was selling for approx $500-600. But now that TS is free, why would anyone pay $300 approx for an add on, no matter how good it might be?
By doing so you cripple the Workspace side, practically forcing users back to the modelling side. Their only other choice is to leave.
This whole thing reminds me of a snake eating it's tail-soon their won't be anything left of TS and MS will simply take the TS code that they can use and incorporate it into their own web based plans.
As for rendering in future, I would suggest it is best to wait and see what comes about. Perhaps if those who would like additonal renderers for trueSpace made enough noise (and made purchases when the time comes), 3rd party developers might show some interest.
And exactly how long are TS users supposed to sit and wait, naively hoping for the best? One month? Six months? A year? The handwriting is on the wall, and many will simply move on-if they haven't already done so....
Why invest time and effort learning TS when it's in this state?
Why indeed. |
Post by brotherx // Jan 9, 2009, 10:24am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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It's one thing to expect users to pay approx $300 for Vray when TS was selling for approx $500-600. But now that TS is free, why would anyone pay $300 approx for an add on, no matter how good it might be?
The why would be because it totally kicks ass. Lightworks is good but VRay is so much faster and better even if you are just using bog-standard renders without GI or HDRI....and just because something is free doesn't mean everything for it was free...
Even if Lightworks was in the workspace side if you had the choice, Vray would be the renderer of choice because it looks so much better. Dribble/3Delight is the only thing that comes close and it's not workspace yet...
And besides, if microsoft was giving away free xboxes, does that mean you should get the games for free too?? Course not... |
Post by Khai // Jan 9, 2009, 11:16am
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Khai
Total Posts: 56
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you know what the actual annoyance for me is?
and I really hope that caligari staff members are reading and that this gets to roman as well.
it's the lack of information.
ok I understand why Vray is no longer availible.
but what about a renderer in trueSpace 8? you've stated again and again that the modelside is to be removed. that leaves 8 with NO RENDER ENGINE. sorry I do not count the 'realtime render engine' as even close to production quality (hint : if this was the case, why isn't this an option in Maya, Lightwave, Max, Cinema, etc? I know of only 1 other app that offers this, that's Daz Studio. even then most users use if for preview only!)
by no news at all (sorry roman your post was as useful as a chocolate teapot. it had NO news at all. nothing. nada. zip. useless).
so. all had to do was tell us what the plan is. it's not hard.
but no. |
Post by teamonkey // Jan 9, 2009, 12:09pm
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teamonkey
Total Posts: 107
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The why would be because it totally kicks ass. Lightworks is good but VRay is so much faster and better even if you are just using bog-standard renders without GI or HDRI....and just because something is free doesn't mean everything for it was free...
***I*** don't disagree with you and I do own VRay. I was simply trying to state the perspective of many users-especially those that came in to TS when it was free; and also why they might well go elsewhere. Enjoy your TS if you want to use it, no one has any problem with that.
But others could well think differently to the point that this communitee could well all but disapear, for some of the reasons that I stated.
YMMV,etc... |
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