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By popular request...
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
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By popular request... // Work in Progress
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 4, 2007, 11:58am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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... another picture of my ship. I found a way around my cannonfire problem by rendering some nice cloud textures in Vue 5 Esprit and using then as alphamasked sprites which reflect, cast a shadow and generally create a reasonably good result - using very few polygons too!
There are a few more things to add - chocks behind the cannon wheels (the cannon is based on a Danish cannon from 1585 and although it looks like a field gun it's actually a ships gun). Any other comments or suggestions gratefully received. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 4, 2007, 12:05pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I really like this. It gives me expectations in my imagination of things that might happen.
I think a crouching figure near the cannon would be good if you can fit it in and I would center the cannon amidships on the other ship. That way less ocean and more model is exposed from both ships.
Can't wait to see the next image shot. :) |
Post by Methusela // Mar 4, 2007, 1:45pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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I absolutely love that guy's expression! XD
Is he MakeHuman?
It reminds me of a Family Guy quote:
Glenn Quagmire (to an old sailor with peg arms and peg legs): So, were you like, in an accident or something?
Old Sailor(sarcastically): No, me father was a tree.
Fantastic work, really shows what good modeling (not to mention the texturing!) can do for an image!
You know what, I should just cancel what I said about just good modeling and texturing, because absolutely everything about this scene is top notch, it'd be unfair to the other qualities to really single out any one of them! I hope you get to try Vray one of these days, as that fellow'd look incredibly good with some fancy new 7.5 hair and Subsurface Scattering! |
Post by kena // Mar 4, 2007, 4:45pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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the deck cannon looks just a hair small. When you fire a cannon, it slips back, and you have to pull ropes to pull it back forward. As it is, the first time someone pulls it too hard, it will go overboard. :D |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 4, 2007, 11:18pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks jamesmc, methusela and kena for taking the time to comment.
Yes my panicing pirate is a makehuman dude - with extensive reworking and texturing in tS. I love the versatility of makehuman - it opens a whole new range of options for me. (And you can't argue about the price!)
Kena - the reference picture I used for the cannon had no size cues so I'm unsure just how big it's supposed to be! Like you I did wonder if it was a tad small but then I decided that this added to the sense that the nearer ship was seriously outgunned. I've yet to model chains or ropes and chocks for the cannon to deal with recoil and swaying decks.
79 views of this thread so far and only three comments? Am I to conclude that the picture is so good as it is that it needs no further work? :D |
Post by Nez // Mar 5, 2007, 12:16am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Great looking picture, although I agree the cannon looks a bit of a tiddler. Looks rather too small for a ship cannon, although it has the look of being something almost ornamental - perhaps looted?
Most of the cannon I've seen have been rather larger ( I regularly hang out on such ships of course ;) ) with barrels in the order of 25-30cm diameter, firing 'balls of a good 15cm diameter...
Would expect the whole gun and carriage to be getting on for waist height perhaps? The explosion is also possibly a bitbuig for such a pokeylittle gun, although that could be a lucky hit, a hit by a gun 'off camera' or muxzzle flash from the other ship...
Mind you, definitely adds to that feeling of being outgunned....
I'd also be worried about the cannonfalling off ship at the moment, but sounds like you're working on that anyway... would be tempted to ensure that the bulwark wasn't 'missing' all the way to deck level so that it has something to check its forward motion when the deck pitches.
Looking forward to seeing it progress - the character's great too. |
Post by Tiles // Mar 5, 2007, 1:03am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Modeling,texturing, lightning and rendering are excellent. The guy is much too big though. Normally the railing goes to the height of at least the belly. Is at the height of the knee at the moment. Ah, yes, proportions. I am always in battle with that too ... :P |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 5, 2007, 1:26am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Would expect the whole gun and carriage to be getting on for waist height perhaps? The explosion is also possibly a bitbuig for such a pokeylittle gun, although that could be a lucky hit, a hit by a gun 'off camera' or muzzle flash from the other ship...
Looking forward to seeing it progress - the character's great too.
Waist height? Wow that big? OK I'll certainly think about that. Re the explosion on the distant ship - I was wondering if it's a bit ambiguous? It is supposed to be a muzzle flash from the far ship. The near ship has not fired at all (note there are no missing cannonballs from the stack :D ).
If you look toward the bow of the far ship there's a white pull of smoke a darker puff and the illuminated muzzle flash - I'm trying to convey the idea of multiple shots from successive cannon. Any suggestions as to how to make this more obvious would be most appreciated.
@tiles - yeah the proportion thing can be a challenge. Earlier versions had the railing much higher but this obscured the view of the far ship. Given that many folk have expressed a wish to see the ship model more clearly I've gone with a lower rail but I'm not sure that it works that well. In my mind the near ship is actually quite small compared to the far ship.
Given all these little details which don't quite gel together you can see why I'm asking for input here! |
Post by Methusela // Mar 5, 2007, 2:00am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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The "simple" solution is just to make lots of pictures. :D |
Post by Nez // Mar 5, 2007, 2:16am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Hmm, I see what you're getting at, and it is a litytole tricky. The only comment I'd throw in for you to also chew over is that your plan suggests a rather undisciplined firing pattern - usually these kind of ships were adopting massed broadside firing, with multiplpe cannon firing at the same time, rather than staggered firing like you're indicating - so idealistically, you would hope to see multipple muzzle flashes (well, your man in the foreground wouldn't hope to see it, but you get my gist). Of course, you might not want to convey massed firing - perhaps someone got a bit trigger happy or the crew is poorly trained?
With a lot of guns firing, you would also expect to see the ship 'rocking back' slightly from the firing - at the moment it's leaning towards its target. Even on wheels, the holding chains/ropes would transfer some of the recoil to the ship.
With regards to the cannon size/bulwarks etc - well, waist height cannon may be a bit over the top (although I've seen that big) but certainly two foot or more isn't unreasonable. Pictures below may help a little, sure you could find plenty more through Google... Tiles is right that you'd expect the bulwark rail to be around wait height - modern designs for ballustrades call for 1.1m typically, although health and safety on pirate ships was hardly top concern...! |
Post by Steinie // Mar 5, 2007, 3:29am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Proportions seem out of wack. Guy is too big, crutch looks to long, cannon too small, railing too low. The black smoke looks like damage and confuses the viewer. The white smoke to the right of the black is perfect but you need a couple more. The railing looks bowed caused by (oh no not again) a camera lens! Impossible!
If you didn't force me to comment I would have just sat here thinking oh my gosh this is so cool....:) |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 5, 2007, 4:06am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Ah thanks folks - that's useful feedback. I'll definitely upsize the cannon (you want fries with that?) and rethink the railing height, maybe by downsizing my panicking pirate.
@Nez; Re the far ships cannon firing pattern - I remember reading a story whereby one ship slowly overtook the other and fired each cannon one after the other as they came to bear on the target. I had this idea in mind while I was making this scene and I'm reluctant to hide my warship behind to many muzzle flashes - I may need to rethink some of these points too.
@Steinie; LOL - no wode angle lenses here mate - the beck is actually curved! And no one is 'forcing you to answer - it's not as if I've got a load of cannons pointed at you. Oh wait! I DO have ship load of cannons pointing at you!!! |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 5, 2007, 5:24am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I'd throw in for you to also chew over is that your plan suggests a rather undisciplined firing pattern - usually these kind of ships were adopting massed broadside firing, with multiplpe cannon firing at the same time, rather than staggered firing like you're indicating - !
By my readings, and I am by no means a 18 century naval authority, a form of staggered firing was very much in style. The lietenet in charge of the guns would give the signal and the gunning crews would start to light the fuse, each crew lighting their fuse a moment after the crew just before them. This would cause a wonderful staggered firing that would start at the bow of the ship and than continue to the stern. I would imagine this was adopted in an attempt to lessen the loads and stresses on the timbers to the ship, but I am sure their is also some naval strategy involved also, these were sailing vessels, and the main strategy of attaching for these ships was from ships forming lines and moving into the enemy. With these types of sailing vessels it made sense, you than concentrated your fire power into a concentrated section of your enemy. After that initail plaung, the ships would slip off into invidual and group engagements... a very nasty way of war, an amazing time in history.
I wrote this when I first saw this thread, these were my first impressions of the scene, and are purely speculative on my part. I am certainly using only my guessing ability;s here and I do not pretend to read Wizard's mind or understand the direction he was shooting for with this piece...
Here is my speculation of what is going on, and what is likely to happen in this situation.
Not sure of the colors of the Man of War, early 1600's to mid 1600's would put her as a ship of Britan, Spain, Portugal or possibly Netherlands, there is a possibility of one of the other continental countries of Europe, but these would be the most likely.
The ship in front of us, poor devil, is in for a world of hurt. The fact that the gun is probably in the area of a 4-6 pounder, and the ship has such a small gun deck mounted, I would speculate she is a merchant, privateer, or a pirating vessel. A deck mounted gun would seem to indicate to me she is several outclassed. She may at most have 6 guns on that side, possibly a couple more, though privateers and pirates tended to have few. 6, 6 pound guns can only send a broad side of 36 pounds. Seeing that the hull line is the thickest part of any man of war, those puny 6 pound shots will have to penetrate some 24" of solid white oak... our little friend in front of us, well she was not built for waring, she is a converted merchant vessel put into service to serve a need. Her hull maybe in the area of 6-10 inches. The broadside of the man of war to her side will likely be in the area of 300 to 400 pounds.
Now I would imagine that man of war is likely trying to let our little friend know that she needs to head the wishes of the Royal Navy our big friend represents, and she better do so quickly. I imagine our big friend is sending over a warning shot, and that our little friend needs to answer ASAP... else, our big friend there is likely to send over a partial broadside aimed mostly at her sails, and fully intending to leave her helpless. The trouble with this for our little friend in front of us is those shots fired, when intended to shed the sails had the nasty habit of doing the same for the poor sailors below them. those guns would be loaded with any and all forms of small metal, shot, chain or nails. There sole intent was to shred and maim any and all in front of them.
It looks as our friend here, the one shouting, may be allowing the captain and crew know the Royal Navy of the day is looking for her to heave to and feels he has to remind his captain... :)
Now the captain of our MAn of War here, he has intentions of interviewing or capturing this little prize, he is not likely to send over a full broadside, not yet. A full broadside will likely sink our little friend here, and he is probably looking at this ship right now as a possible "Prize" "a lawful capturing of a known enemy vessel or pirate vessel for profit to the captain and officers of the ship", or a possible ship that when captured he can use in his own fleet.
It's a nice picture, and allows me to speculate as to what you may be thinking, but this nice image allows me to create a scene such as the one I just described... If I were better with my words, and I knew the period better, I might be able to do a better job of conveying my thoughts.
Still, a nice scene.
Rich |
Post by kena // Mar 5, 2007, 2:01pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I think upsizing the cannon and downsizing the pirate would put the railing in proportion. Maybe also a little bit of the bulwark (is that the right term?) to prevent the cannon from going overboard. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 5, 2007, 5:51pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Wow RichLevy, that's almost spooky! That is exactly the scenario as I saw it in my head. The big ship, with far greater sail area, was quicker than the little pirate guys and has been chasing them for several hours. As the big ship comes abeam of the little guy it fires a short salvo, four shots from the forward lower battery across the pirates bow, each shot getting closer.
The panicking pirate (whose father is not a tree LOL) lost his lower leg in a similar engagement several years earlier. You can imagine what he's shouting!
"Heave too, stop the ship!" amongst other things.
RichLevy your assessment of the situation is spot on. This is very heartening for it lets me know the story I see in my head is carried by the picture. Thanks for taking the time to share this RichLevy, it's most appreciated.
Many of my pictures are created with a specific role in mind as they are ultimately intended to be used as illustrations for a coherent story. The story, set on the planet Inthandonia, is a fusion of a fantasy story and a sci fi story. Inthandonia has a high magical background energy, some areas are highly technological, some far more rural and magical. Things on Inthandonia are wildly anachronistic containing elements from all periods of mankinds Earthly history. Thus we have atomic powered flying cars along with Model T Fords and sailing ships.
In this picture, the ship is a relatively accurate depiction of a French Man-Of-War from around the mid 16th century - However she sails under the colours of the Inthandonian Royal Navy.
Because of the Fantasy element I can thus create images that are (hopefully) interesting artistically whilst also conveying part of the overall background story. This will probably infuriate the historical buffs :D What is NOT revealed in this picture is the identity of the passengers on that big ship or what dire mission they are on prior to encountering the small pirateship.
@Kena, thanks for the input. I like the compositional effect of having the pirate so close to the viewer as it (hopefully) involves the viewer more immediately when they are closer to the action. Whilst I may yet do as you suggest I may explore different POVs all together. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 10, 2007, 11:57pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well after several detours and delays here is the latest update. I've attempted to address the various issues raised and hopefully I'm getting close to balancing everything out.
With reference to ongoing discussions in other threads I wish to say here that I've used five different softwares to create this plus one .tsx. In addition to any feedback, observations, criticisms or comments you may wish to make perhaps you could also have a stab at guessing which software packages were used and for what purpose - then we could move on to discussing which bits are 'cheating' and which bits aren't!!! LOL
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But wait! There's more! I've been thinking about several recent comments about the 'style' of my work and so I thought I'd step out of my usual mode and try something a little different. The second image is titled 'Truish Space' and is 100% trueSpace 6.6.
Please enjoy....
WZRD |
Post by Methusela // Mar 11, 2007, 1:15am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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They're both phenominal! Wow, that really is a departure from your usual style! Well done, with getting the scale right, that must've been tricky. I think I remember that this was the idea, but you've successfully changed the focus of the image from the unfortunate fellow to the other ship! I still can't believe you did that whole ship by yourself. The level of detail almost gives me a headache!
Oh! Also, would you mind terribly if I had a quick go at texturing that fellow? I've always wanted to try it, but I've never had a subject that really inspired me. I think I'd have loads of fun on him. XD
That's if you don't mind, of course. The clothes as well, for best effect!
(If I do a good enough job, feel free to use the textures in your final image!) |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 11, 2007, 2:18am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Actually modelling the ship was a real joy - of course there was always the odd tricky thing that wouldn't go quite right but once I got the hull built the rest of it was reletively easy plus I really only had to model one side of the ship and use the mirror modeller. I found the trick was to do it one step at a time and many of the components could simply be copied and repositioned - the cannons and port covers etc. As alearning experience it was invaluable!
I've attached a .zip which contains PiratePete.cob. which was made with tS 6.6. I've replaced my multi-layered textures with straight forward colour shaders so you'll be able to use my UV settings or create your own. You should be aware that I'm somewhat new to UV editing so excuse any obvious noob errors:D
His clothes are included - pants are part of the main mesh - other bits are NURBS objects including his hair. In my renders he has a single layer of SDS on the main body, the crutch and the pegleg but I'm sure you'll find other innovative ways to play with him.
Anyone else who wants to have a go at painting my pirate, be my guest. Just be careful, that sword is quite sharp! ;) Have fun
WZRD |
Post by parva // Mar 11, 2007, 5:07am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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First one looks great. I like pictures with details and this one has lots of it.
The pirate has a really dead-white skin... because of fear :D |
Post by kena // Mar 11, 2007, 6:42am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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The second picture is very strange indeed. Nicely done.
Your pirate picture.
Please forgive me cutting pieces out and drawing on it a bit.
I saw only three things wrong, and here is the order I saw them in.
This splash looks like it originates about 3 inches below the visible edge of the ship
4813
Right where I put the rectangle, you need to raise the side of the ship to prevent the cannon from rolling off.
4812
These birds are shaped like they are flying off in a panic, but the formation looks more like the 5-spot on a dice. I would move the middle one below and slightly to the right, or to another place that makes it look more random.
4811
3 very minor things. Your proportions are perfect, I think. Lighting is very well done, looks like a misty dawn time of day.
And it just dawned on me that you have a pirate with a wooden leg and a crutch. Shouldn’t he have one or the other? Or maybe your story has a reason for that. ;) |
Post by Shike // Mar 12, 2007, 12:49am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Pirateship battles ! Love it !! :D
The last pirate pic looks great, better feeling of the size!
*wander off looking for the DVD's with "Master&Commander" and "PiratesOfTheCarribean"* |
Post by Methusela // Mar 12, 2007, 1:36am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Wow, thanks very much W!zard! I can't seem to do anything with him though. TrueSpace crashes every time I try something. :/ |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 12, 2007, 4:59am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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@Methusela Ah that's a shame. I find trueSpace gags a bit on these makehuman OBJ. I should try importing them with the LUUV plugin - they may convert to .cobs better that way..... My trueSpace crashes a lot when adjusting UV settings on the Makehuman models. I save my work almost constantly when working with them.
Another option occurs to me though - do you have Makehuman? In which case I can give you the body settings and pose files and you load them into Makehuman and export your own model.
@ Shike - LOL - seeing both of those movies was directly responsible for motivating me to build the ship in the first place! Should we look forward to seeing a sailing ship from you soon?
@Parva - thanks Marcel. I thought his skin was also a little pale - I think a pirate should probably be a little more suntanned!
@Kena - good question! As was thinking about this pirate I was also thinking about Long John Silver, the pirate from 'Treasure Island' who had a wooden leg PLUS a crutch for added stability - oh yeah he had a parrot too but I thought that was going to far into cliche! :rolleyes: |
Post by Methusela // Mar 12, 2007, 10:46am
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Yeah, if there's one thing I'm sure I've learned the most on this forum, it's that you should ALWAYS use the LUUV plugin when you're dealing with .obj's. I like that it preserves the UV mapping of said .obj best of all.
But yeah, I have makehuman, it might be worth posting those settings! |
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