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About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Post by jamesmc // Mar 7, 2007, 11:22am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Demon from cartoon...partially done |
Post by kena // Mar 7, 2007, 11:55am
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kena
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good start. I'm sure the textures will make it scary. |
Post by MadMouse // Mar 7, 2007, 11:58am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Good stuff James. But what it really needs is a part mech part organic body!!! I'd pay good money to see that;) Keep up the good work mate. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 7, 2007, 12:15pm
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jamesmc
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I think I will the mech part as add ons. That is, external to the organic.
Some parts of the organic body will be huge, like the cartoon hands. So huge that they need a hydraulic system for them to work. Strap on claws and stuff. |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 7, 2007, 1:46pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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looking very cool nice and clean, are you using truespace for this? |
Post by Steinie // Mar 7, 2007, 3:26pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Who knows what goes anymore. I use it myself.
Nice job by the way. I thought you said you couldn't model? |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 7, 2007, 4:29pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Who knows what goes anymore. I use it myself.
Nice job by the way. I thought you said you couldn't model?
Lot of people use other software to model organics. Mad Mouse says he uses Silo and I have seen Poser, Make Human models etc. here.
Modeling organics in tS66 is an accident waiting to happen. Plus the meshes are usually so corrupt with the export options, they are unusable in other applications. I would rather have a nice clean mesh I can move around.
I can also model in Animation Master, but I do better animation than modeling in AM.
I come here to socialize. However with the spread of the tS7 users versus older users, the cliques have formed and people with older versions are left out.
One doesn't see that on other forums. |
Post by Methusela // Mar 7, 2007, 5:17pm
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Methusela
Total Posts: 414
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Well you've clearly got way more skill than I anticipated! Looks fantastic, and the topology is way better than I've ever gotten! Most of my faces turn out to be a stringy mess. XD
I like the idea of mechanizing him a bit, too! Perhaps he (she? You rarely see any female devils...) was in an accident some years ago and had to have significant portions of his right arm supplemented with robotics? :O |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 7, 2007, 10:25pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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james once again you surprise me, where can I start with what you have said:
Lot of people use other software to model organics. Mad Mouse says he uses Silo and I have seen Poser, Make Human models etc. here.
They use a combination, a lot of the time pictures they show are work they have done in truespace e.g. they have imported into truespace for further work. Make Human models and Poser models dont count really if they are not integral to the scene, I have seen no-one here use a model from such software as the main piece of their work, simply because make human and poser models suck, they are only good for background people etc
I come here to socialize. However with the spread of the tS7 users versus older users, the cliques have formed and people with older versions are left out.
Naturally as more people are getting TS7 there are less people with TS 6.6, however I see many renders and images done in that and they get pleanty of comments and help etc, Wizard for example is one of the most talented people on this foum and he uses 6.6 . Also if you are referring to yourself in this matter, it is not down to what version you use, its merely your attitude to other users when you cannot take critiques, plus you seem to create the start of lots of projects and never finish them thus wasting our time, or you just end it by telling us that we were nasty to you and it just isnt worth it
So in all this basically im trying to say that this is a TS forum for work done in TS software for the better half of the project, either that or the intention to do much of it in TS, im sure you already know this James so look forward to your reply which will no-doubt be another attack on this community and me |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 3:46am
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jamesmc
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james once again you surprise me, where can I start with what you have said:
They use a combination, a lot of the time pictures they show are work they have done in truespace e.g. they have imported into truespace for further work. Make Human models and Poser models dont count really if they are not integral to the scene, I have seen no-one here use a model from such software as the main piece of their work, simply because make human and poser models suck, they are only good for background people etc
Naturally as more people are getting TS7 there are less people with TS 6.6, however I see many renders and images done in that and they get pleanty of comments and help etc, Wizard for example is one of the most talented people on this foum and he uses 6.6 . Also if you are referring to yourself in this matter, it is not down to what version you use, its merely your attitude to other users when you cannot take critiques, plus you seem to create the start of lots of projects and never finish them thus wasting our time, or you just end it by telling us that we were nasty to you and it just isnt worth it
So in all this basically im trying to say that this is a TS forum for work done in TS software for the better half of the project, either that or the intention to do much of it in TS, im sure you already know this James so look forward to your reply which will no-doubt be another attack on this community and me
Thanks for the lecture Sonny.
No doubt your intent was to provoke me into an argument. Teasing that dog with a stick eh?
How do you know what I intended this demon for?
People don't like my analysis of the situation, but I'm usually right about what I objected to. I have an uncanny sense to spot a bad situation when I see one.
Heck last year, when I was defending tS7 from a bad review in a magazine I got jumped by about twenty users calling me names and generally what kind of lowlife I was.
Imagine that, me an extremely loyal tS user until the "personalities" here bludgeon me about the head and shoulders telling me I'm not allowed.
So pardon me while I work on some bot objects for this demon. |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 8, 2007, 4:05am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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Thanks for the lecture Sonny.
No doubt your intent was to provoke me into an argument. Teasing that dog with a stick eh?
Seriously you must think I love confrontation, are you going to bite?
People don't like my analysis of the situation, but I'm usually right about what I objected to.
Ah, so you are always right are you? no, you are stubborn, stuck in your ways and you cannot take what others say my friend
Heck last year, when I was defending tS7 from a bad review in a magazine I got jumped by about twenty users calling me names and generally what kind of lowlife I was.
Dont know anything about that but obviously this is not the full story, there must have been some reason why people might have reacted in such a way
How do you know what I intended this demon for?
Tell us then! what are your intentions?
because right now it just appears that you were trying to hide the fact that u made this model in other software, if you want crits and comments for your WIP's then it would help if you told us a little about the project |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 4:12am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Seriously you must think I love confrontation, are you going to bite?
Ah, so you are always right are you? no, you are stubborn, stuck in your ways and you cannot take what others say my friend
Dont know anything about that but obviously this is not the full story, there must have been some reason why people might have reacted in such a way
Tell us then! what are your intentions?
because right now it just appears that you were trying to hide the fact that u made this model in other software, if you want crits and comments for your WIP's then it would help if you told us a little about the project
And what are you intentions?
Who appointed you forum montior? I thought that was Norm's job.
Are you the moral leader of the free world, the decider of who is a sinner and who is not?
And you know my motives how? I already explained why I use Hexagon to model organics.
And why are you bothering me on a WIP thread?
What is your agenda? |
Post by Chester Desmond // Mar 8, 2007, 4:35am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Where is the rebel base? |
Post by kena // Mar 8, 2007, 4:39am
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kena
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I have seen no-one here use a model from such software as the main piece of their work, simply because make human and poser models suck, they are only good for background people etc
I really have to disagree with you on this point. both Make Human and poser have very good models. I could wish that thier models had a bit mor range, but I have used DAZ, MakeHuman and Have seen poser models used by other people to very good effect. The textures from those programs do not, unfortunatly, import into TS that well.
The point here is to take what you get from other programs and then Texture and render them using TS as your main program. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 4:43am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Where is the rebel base?
No rebel base, but perhaps a mini mech world with various things.
And no I won't be entering the contest if that is what everyone is concerned about. I'll let someone who is in need of the prizes apply, not that I would ever win.
And I don't need to feed my ego by winning a contest, it's big enough. :) |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 4:52am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Tell us then! what are your intentions?
because right now it just appears that you were trying to hide the fact that u made this model in other software, if you want crits and comments for your WIP's then it would help if you told us a little about the project
Actually, this is a friendly graphical discourse with Mad Mouse.
And I'll probably make a screen saver for my grandsons.
I make a lot of models and don't use them right away. I make some for later use on some un-imagined project.
I make some models so I might get better at modeling.
Not every project has an end or a purpose.
Some projects I do for fun and personal satisfaction.
I don't need a prize or my ego stroked to feel good about a project I've completed. |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 8, 2007, 5:30am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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would be perfectly happy for you to enter competition, I dont see why you dont, this looks like promising work, you can always give prizes away to needy students *cough* me *cough* lol buying TS7 was expensive enough for me, well worth it though.
It would seem due to past arguments about entering contests that using other software is acceptable, aslong as its used in conjunction.
Perhaps I jumped a little bit in this thread and I certainly am not acting as forum moderator or indeed some kind of evil dictator of the internet
but on the TS forum, I anyway, Like to see work people have dont in TS not in other software, this way I can learn from peoples progress, its a shame for me because I cannot use the software you are and thus wont learn anything.
I really have to disagree with you on this point. both Make Human and poser have very good models. I could wish that thier models had a bit mor range, but I have used DAZ, MakeHuman and Have seen poser models used by other people to very good effect. The textures from those programs do not, unfortunatly, import into TS that well.
Poser models and makehuman models tend to all look weird, in the way that I atleast can almost always tell that a poser model has been used in a scene, no professional would use the software for a major piece especially if it was main focus, its like using Bryce or Vue in some ways its cheating and although results are nice, you can always tell, maybe its just me but after spending much time on cgtalk you begin to see how you cant get away with useing such software unless its coupled with your own input |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 5:52am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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would be perfectly happy for you to enter competition, I dont see why you dont, this looks like promising work, you can always give prizes away to needy students *cough* me *cough* lol buying TS7 was expensive enough for me, well worth it though.
It would seem due to past arguments about entering contests that using other software is acceptable, aslong as its used in conjunction.
Perhaps I jumped a little bit in this thread and I certainly am not acting as forum moderator or indeed some kind of evil dictator of the internet
but on the TS forum, I anyway, Like to see work people have dont in TS not in other software, this way I can learn from peoples progress, its a shame for me because I cannot use the software you are and thus wont learn anything.
Poser models and makehuman models tend to all look weird, in the way that I atleast can almost always tell that a poser model has been used in a scene, no professional would use the software for a major piece especially if it was main focus, its like using Bryce or Vue in some ways its cheating and although results are nice, you can always tell, maybe its just me but after spending much time on cgtalk you begin to see how you cant get away with useing such software unless its coupled with your own input
As a student you should realize that someone who has lived at least forty more or more years on this planet longer than you have - that I might know a thing or two and can analyze situations - and I am not blinded by the antics of enthusiastic youth or those seeking a "reputation" in a market.
Hexagon 2 is a Polygonal Modeler just like trueSpace. I got it for $32.00 when it was offered for that price by DAZ. Best investment I ever made. It is extremely easy to do manipulation with polygons. Their line and spline interface is absolutely the best on the market. If you can draw it, you can model it because of the line tools.
I also use Animation Master which is pure spline modeling. I refer to it as modeling with "frozen rope." Takes a bit getting used to, but animation with spline models is far superior to polygonal models as you tend not to get creases when you 'bone' an object, then try to animate it. It's weak point is the choice of shaders and rendering engine. Animation Master also has a 3D painter plug-in.
I have a package called BlackSmith3D. It can model, but it's primary purpose is to make morphs and modificaton to existing OBJ format models. It has it's own method of Bump, displacement, UV, 3D Paint (very nice) and has very nice layer options. The author of the program used to write plug-ins for trueSpace.
I also have Poser 6, Daz, Make Human, Blender and Maya. I hardly use Maya as it is an older version and it's work flow is gawd awful.
Been working with computer graphics since the early 1980s when you could program in BASIC to make pretty little color thingies and games.
These are tools in my tool box. One doesn't have to run down to Sears and buy all craftsman tools to build a house. There are lots of tools available and the more you use different brands of tools one becomes aware of what is out there and you meet up with other people who give great ideas how to use the tools.
3D graphics is the same. The more tools you have, the more you meet up with people that have great ideas on how to approach making a 3D object. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Mar 8, 2007, 6:18am
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Chester Desmond
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Poser models and makehuman models tend to all look weird, in the way that I atleast can almost always tell that a poser model has been used in a scene,
I agree with this to a point, but I think that a lot of the time it's because they are used with default settings and often are used as filler props. You can get some really good looking output if you are willing to massage it a bit.
no professional would use the software for a major piece especially if it was main focus,
As main focus you are mostly right I think, but I'm sure there are plenty of professionals using them in advertising, visualizations and the like. Part of being a professional is managing time\money and these kinds of models are perfect for that!
its like using Bryce or Vue in some ways its cheating and although results are nice, you can always tell, maybe its just me but after spending much time on cgtalk you begin to see how you cant get away with useing such software unless its coupled with your own input
Again I agree somewhat, but it really depends on the project I think. If I make $1000 for 2 hours work and a CG talk "pro" makes $1000 for 12 hrs work, who is more admirable? Depends on what you are evaluating. You can strip down the "cheating" thing by many levels if you really want to
Anyone not modelling from directly from splines is cheating
Anyone using subdivision to smooth something is cheating
Anyone using primitives is cheating
Anyone using 3d software is cheating
Anyone using a PC is cheating
Anyone painting with an airbrush is cheating
Anyone not mixing their own colours is cheating (c'mon burnt sienna? a real artist could mix that from the primary colours)
Anyone not crushing berries to make the pigments is cheating
etc ad nauseaum
Hell, eating Kraft Dinner is cheating in the mind of an Italian pasta chef.
I struggle with this same issue a lot of the time and have a real aversion to using anything that is pre-made because it does defeat the purpose of modelling to do so, but it doesn't defeat the purpose of creating a scene.
It's really just an elitist attitude in my opinion to try and invalidate someone's work based on concepts like this (and I'm referring to cgtalk members you've mentioned, not yourself) and judging the "artistic merit" really depends on what the work is presented as; ie a generic still life of a vase downloaded from 3d cafe can't be claimed as a "totally original work of art", but as a "light study" or a "rendering of a vase" it's perfectly valid to me and still falls in the realm of what I call art.
This kind of compartmental thinking is fascinating to me.
Take 10 artists who use Poser and 10 who don't and they will argue all day
then get 10 traditional painters to claim that "CG is not art" and it's suddenly 20 vs 10
then get 10 "anti-freedom party" members to ban Art and it is 30 vs 10
then get a 10 democratic politicians to install a puppet regime and it is 40 vs 10
then get 10 aliens to invade earth and it is 50 vs 10
etc ad nauseum....
I think I should really get back to work :) |
Post by Matski007 // Mar 8, 2007, 6:24am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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As a student you should realize that someone who has lived at least forty more or more years on this planet longer than you have - that I might know a thing or two and can analyze situations - and I am not blinded by the antics of enthusiastic youth or those seeking a "reputation" in a market.
Not necessarily true lol
Toolbox is indeed handy, at university I have begun to learn using Maya, and I have to say it is amazing, it is very very good indeed and ive barely scratched the surface, when joining the graphics industry it is a very good idea to have ur finers firmly in the pies of many applications, I have a deep loathing for programs such as Bryce, Vue and Poser, not sure why but im just never impressed with much that comes out in my mind its cheating and you see that little work has gone into the scene |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 6:52am
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jamesmc
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Not necessarily true lol
Toolbox is indeed handy, at university I have begun to learn using Maya, and I have to say it is amazing, it is very very good indeed and ive barely scratched the surface, when joining the graphics industry it is a very good idea to have ur finers firmly in the pies of many applications, I have a deep loathing for programs such as Bryce, Vue and Poser, not sure why but im just never impressed with much that comes out in my mind its cheating and you see that little work has gone into the scene
A clay or stone sculptor /canvas artist would say all CG artists are cheating because we use "cheat tools" to make art. |
Post by Methusela // Mar 8, 2007, 7:20am
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Methusela
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Jamesmc, you said that spline models don't crease when boned/animated. I just wanted to ask how that works or if you could show an example or two. I've never really seen a spline model posed or animated or anything, so I was wondering what it would look like vs. polygonal modeling. Do you have any good links you might be able to post? |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 7:26am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Jamesmc, you said that spline models don't crease when boned/animated. I just wanted to ask how that works or if you could show an example or two. I've never really seen a spline model posed or animated or anything, so I was wondering what it would look like vs. polygonal modeling. Do you have any good links you might be able to post?
Animated spline will crease if you try to get them to do something they weren't design for. But in my opinion, fixing them is much easier to do than polygonal model animation. The problem with creasing in the same manner for polygonal or spline modeling, that is the areas that crease are (1) Do not have enough deformation vertices (2) The assignment of bones or muscles was not done properly and (3) The artist made an error with the modeling.
http://www.hash.com/2007web/vm.htm
Watch the "Flower Power" video, it shows some basic splinemanship.
Other movie tutorials are interesting as well, but that one gives a good idea what spline modeling is all about.
Actually, once you make a spline model, the curves/symmetry of the lines are very similar to polygonal models.
A lot of people hate spline modeling as it takes awhile to get used to. Hard to wrap your mind around it because of the conversion of lines into a 3D object.
Like I previously mentioned I like to think of spline modeling as applying frozen rope. Take some string, put some adhesive on it and wrap it on an object. That is spline modeling. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Mar 8, 2007, 9:16am
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Chester Desmond
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it is indeed hard to get your head around (I never could actually)...Methusela if you want to mess with it a bit you should check out Hamapatch. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 9:20am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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it is indeed hard to get your head around (I never could actually)...Methusela if you want to mess with it a bit you should check out Hamapatch.
Like polygonal modeling, one can use image planes as a guide. :)
Get a Front, Side, Back view and you're ready to go in about any 3D application. |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 8, 2007, 9:30am
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...Poser models and makehuman models tend to all look weird, in the way that I atleast can almost always tell that a poser model has been used in a scene, no professional would use the software for a major piece especially if it was main focus,...
Perhaps you could reconsider your stance after viewing this (http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2000/Nov00/winner03.html), or this (http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2000/Nov00/winner04.html).
Yeah, it started as Poser. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Mar 8, 2007, 9:53am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Like polygonal modeling, one can use image planes as a guide. :)
Get a Front, Side, Back view and you're ready to go in about any 3D application.
the biggest problem I had was counting points.. ie in hamapatch you had to have four points to make a patch. I tried it before I ever got into TS so I might have better luck now that I am not an absolute 3d noob. It is quite fun modelling that way I thought just weird. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 8, 2007, 10:59am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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the biggest problem I had was counting points.. ie in hamapatch you had to have four points to make a patch. I tried it before I ever got into TS so I might have better luck now that I am not an absolute 3d noob. It is quite fun modelling that way I thought just weird.
This is no different in polygonal modeling where you want four sided polygons. Using edges to correct design flaws often makes the modeler go back and do touch ups. |
Post by Methusela // Mar 8, 2007, 2:10pm
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Methusela
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Ah, thanks for the link! So I guess a good analogy would be that it's like making a physical model using chicken wire as a frame, then wrapping it in plaster of paris! I think I get it now, but I'll need an awful lot of practice to get used to it. ^^ |
Post by kena // Mar 8, 2007, 2:30pm
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kena
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Perhaps you could reconsider your stance after viewing this (http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2000/Nov00/winner03.html), or this (http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2000/Nov00/winner04.html).
Yeah, it started as Poser.
I KNEW I've seen some Poser winners out there!!
I've always taken the view that it's not how much you pay for a product so much as what you can do with it.
I have 3ds MAX... very 'spensive. costs about 3 times what truespace does. don't use it. just cannot get it to work well for me. So, I use Truespace.
Cannot model a live subject to save my life. Use Makehuman - DAZ - LWO whatever I can. ;) |
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