End of the line...

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End of the line... // Roundtable

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Post by splinters // May 19, 2009, 1:28pm

Total Posts: 4148
I know there are several threads running on the subject but I expect them to get very busy and, besides, this might be my last chance to start a thread here...;)
I have had a long history with tS; as a user, tester, promoter and finally employee (albeit part time). The culmination of my work in tS was the chance to work on the tS7 UI and, despite niggles in workflow, I am very proud of what I achieved and would thank Roman for trusting in me to deliver such a big job.
tS also allowed me to realise a life's dream of publishing my own stories and illustrations and I still get plenty of work as a result of the stuff done in tS.

So, as I sip a Vodka an coke, reading that letter from Roman again, I am numb.
Years of using a program and watching it evolve, arguing it's merits against the big boys of 3D and getting my students to invest their time in it.

I realised something was not right since Microsoft took over but I really never expected this...so soon!!

What to do now? Well tS still makes artwork which is what I use it for but you cannot use obsolete software forever and tS will become obsolete prety soon in this fast moving industry.

Surely, after the work done on tS7.61 it should be released, even if it is without any promise of stability...after all, what have you got to lose.

And the real tragedy is to imagine that tS will be archived away as MS property rather than letting the source out to be developed further.

Ranting here...but as I said.....numb....:(:(

Post by Rafa // May 19, 2009, 1:52pm

Total Posts: 95
Or the source will be thorned apart. Maybe we will se something generated with this code, and we will not know.

Post by Rafa // May 19, 2009, 1:54pm

Total Posts: 95
P.S. Splinters, your avatar has a new meaning today... :(

Post by splinters // May 19, 2009, 2:03pm

Total Posts: 4148
P.S. Splinters, your avatar has a new meaning today... :(

Never thought of that...here is an image to ponder on. The boy is me holding on to a dream watching the ts sun set in the distance. The day draws to an end but there is still hope and isn't it a beautiful sight watching the sun set...a fitting end to the wonderful day that preceded it.

Keep well folks.

Post by splinters // May 19, 2009, 2:05pm

Total Posts: 4148
For those who wish to keep in touch, my email can be found at the buddyworld site

and buddyworldbooks.com will remain a testament to a large investment of time and artwork completely made in tS...:)

EDIT: Crikey, I must have been drunk last night, I even got my email wrong. Fixed now though.

Post by Rafa // May 19, 2009, 2:22pm

Total Posts: 95
Long life to Buddy world!

I'm using the image in the announcement of this news in some forums I participate, if that is ok?.

Example: http://www.kerkythea.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=76

Mi mail is rafaelotake@gmail.com

If you guys are in some other forums try to use the same avatar or nicknames :D I do.

Post by clintonman // May 19, 2009, 6:46pm

Total Posts: 304
P.S. Splinters, your avatar has a new meaning today... :(

Good call there. That is the way it feels.:(

Post by Paul Boland // May 20, 2009, 11:41am

Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
Paul, moving post there.

Let me share some stuff with you...

When I decided to move from TrueSpace I found myself in limbo, facing a 3D landscape filled with many packages and many degrees of expense, ranging from free to a terrifying thousands of euro. I had Lightwave at the time but hadn't made much headway with it and wasn't sure it was for me so I started to explore.

For about six to eight months I went from demo to demo to demo looking at all the packages. None of them grabbed me as quick as TrueSpace had done over a decade and a half ago, and while the 3D power in the big boys of the 3D world grabbed my attention, the price scared me away.

After moving from package to package, I eventually went back to what I had, Lightwave 3D. I had a lot of concerns about this software, things I didn't like, but since I had it, what had I to lose by giving it a fair go...

Imagine my SHOCK when I discovered I was back on square one, learning how to create a cube!!

For a while, it was very slow going for me and there were many times I considered giving up and looking elsewhere, but I stuck with it, I played with the tools, read the manual, bought some books, took part in the community and today, I have a fairly good footing in the software. I'd still very much class myself a beginner, but here's the thing...

...A decade and a half of working in 3D with TrueSpace, it all came with me into Lightwave. Sure, the techniques where different and Lightwave has a complex interface compared to TrueSpace, but slowly I learned that while I thought I was back on square 1, I wasn't. Yes, I was still learning to create a cube, create a sphere, apply a texture, and so on, but where it took me years to reach the skill level I had with TrueSpace, it only took months with Lightwave. This is not because Lightwave was easier, far from it, it was because I had that know how.

It's going to be the same for you and everyone else here. The move to a new 3D package is scary. New interface, new way of doing things, new tools, and in the case of Lightwave and the other big boys in 3D, a complex set of dialogue boxes with options, value fields, sliders, etc. The icon driven interface of TrueSpace spoiled us all. It made creating complext 3D stuff a click of a button away. Now you have to consider a load of options in a dialogue box just to create a cube!

But you know what, once you learn those options, what they do, etc., then creating a box is no bigger a deal then it was in TrueSpace and the skills you had in TrueSpace will help you advance fast in a future 3D package.

To you, and everyone else, your goal now is to look at the 3D landscape and see where to go? I'm reminded of your wonderfully powerful story, Chonky Plonk. When I first went into the 3D landscape, I was like Lily, in an unknown place with so many scary new frontiers to discover. It took me almost a year to finally find my feet in Lightwave, but I did so with the help of the skills I brought over from TrueSpace.


Umm, I think I've gone into a bit of a ramble here! LOL!! What I'm trying to say is, moving to a new 3D package at first will seem daunting and it might take time to find the one you like, but the years of skills you learned working with TrueSpace will come with you and eventually your 3D will find a new home.

Best of luck to you and all here.

Post by splinters // May 20, 2009, 11:55am

Total Posts: 4148
I'm reminded of your wonderfully powerful story, Chonky Plonk. When I first went into the 3D landscape, I was like Lily, in an unknown place with so many scary new frontiers to discover....

That put a smile on my face Paul and if I ever need an alternative title for Chonkyponk....yours will be up there...:p

I am not worried about learning a new package, I do dabble elsewhere. What will put me off is trying to port over or recreate 10 years worth of tS stuff....:o

And that is a lot of stuff...

Post by Jack Edwards // May 20, 2009, 2:41pm

Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
I agree with Paul Boland, much of the time spent learning 3D should transfer to other applications. Particularly polygon modeling, but also more general concepts like understanding how UV mapping wraps the textures around an object, and how lighting works. The general understanding of 3D and how it works should help you to more quickly learn new softwares.

The thing to remember is that the software is simply a tool for creating your art, creating the art is up to you. And learning to create art may well be the hardest part... :)

For those of you looking for a new software direction, I recommend giving Blender a second look. It's free and once you start to get the hotkeys down it's very powerful. With all the changes happening in the industry at the moment it's probably not a good time to shell out a lot of cash for new software that may be quickly outdated.

In the short term the tS plugin community will try to quickly knock out those plugins you guys have been asking for, so there's no need to jump ship immediately. Take your time and ease your way into a lot of different softwares. In this brave new world you may likely find that no one software meets all your needs anyway. ;)

Post by v3rd3 // May 20, 2009, 2:55pm

Total Posts: 388
The potential for TS to be a solid comprehensive 3d tool is now gone. The only question that remains for its users is whether or not it is the best choice to fulfill functions in their production pipeline.

Post by transient // May 20, 2009, 3:25pm

Total Posts: 977
Well, myself and a few others have been predominantly using the "obsolete" aspects of truespace since 7.5 came out (I guess for others it would have been when 7 came out). This situation really changes little for me in the short-term, however I would have really liked more vray bugfixes.

As for other software? Really, the only palatable option for me is Modo. Messiah also looks good, but that company is nearly as mute as Caligari when it comes to PR. I also really like Shade and will probably get 10.5 Standard when it comes out, however it has had it's own problems lately, and I don't want to be using another ex piece of software. Carrara, which I don't like anyway, also fits the "at risk" category imo.

If I won the lottery, I would ideally like to get 3dsmax and maybe Brazil, however I doubt this will happen. If anyone else wins big money and wants to do a brother a favor, then I would be very grateful. ;)

Post by ProfessorKhaos // May 20, 2009, 5:35pm

Total Posts: 622
Just found out about trueSpace today :(

Many years of fun and many hours invested. Still have the software of course but not much of a future now.

My heart goes out to all of you who also came along for the ride. Regrettably, I haven't been very active as of late, but I always enjoyed everyone's posts here when I had a chance to lurk.

There are many talented folks here and I hope ya'll continue in the 3D computer graphics field in one form or another. I'm still not sure where I'll go to after this; maybe blender since the price is right. Will still play around with trueSpace for a while.


ProfessorKhaos signing off...

Post by splinters // May 21, 2009, 3:32am

Total Posts: 4148
If you are the vengeful sort then maybe this will make you feel better:


Post by Délé // May 21, 2009, 3:59am

Total Posts: 1374
While it is nice to see them held responsible for their mischievious behavior, it unfortunately won't bring back tS. Microsoft has become the Borg. They assimilate innovative companies, absorb any technology they find useful, and throw away the rest. It's ironic how a company that started out with one of the greatest innovations of our time has turned into such a mindless monster that can't create anything on their own merits anymore. :rolleyes:

Post by rjeff // May 21, 2009, 4:05am

Total Posts: 1260
The problem with the big MS is that they started off taking. They got the GUI from XEROX. So really MS has not been all that innovative.

Post by ronrn // May 21, 2009, 4:08am

Total Posts: 10
Thank you Norm and everyone at TS Community.

............for an enlightening experience.

Until allmost 10 years ago, I was no more than hard working carpenter with decades of bottled up anxieties and self expressions, bursting to get out, with no other avenue of escape short of what a 12 pack of Budweiser could offer.

To make a long story short..... your welcome .... I discovered TrueSpace and the Community Forums at the end of my seemingly dead end street. As other 3d applications left me feeling, well, a little short on time and intelligence, TS fit me like a tailored suit.

I saw genuine efforts by TS's creators to provide amazing, yet comprehendible, creative tools, for the 'average Joe' like me. Finally, I was able to express talents and ideas that, for half a lifetime, were bottled up inside.

Though none of my creations ever stunned the world, or even occasionally impressed other artist and fellow 3ders, I did learn a tremendous amount about myself with the help of TrueSpace and, especially, with the help of TS community members.

TrueSpace and the Community had a clear impact on my self esteem, my hidden talents, and my career.

Some people might say "jeeesse, get a life man".
Well I would respond, "I did....or at least....a generous amount of enlightenment and a little ray of 3d sunshine.

Thanks again to Norm, to the Caligari team, and to the TS Community.


Post by Paul Boland // May 21, 2009, 9:08am

Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
That put a smile on my face Paul and if I ever need an alternative title for Chonkyponk....yours will be up there...:p

LOL!!! Where did that "L" come from! LOL!!
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