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Cliff Hanger colony
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Cliff Hanger colony // Work in Progress
Post by theuns // May 28, 2007, 3:03am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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All the images so far is purely the skeleton, this will be 'overlayed' with muscles, covering just about all the metal...
Here is a concept for the legs, positioning is not perfect [foot bits needs adjusting] ...
I was thinking of a more monkey-style tail instead of lizard, pretensile to climb with in the cliff environment and perhaps kangeroo-like spring legs to jump far distances between platforms etc.... what do you guys think?
:jumpy: |
Post by MadMouse // May 28, 2007, 3:56am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Nice design. I'm not so keen on the 'breast plate' it looks a little plain. Maybe some light arrays or dials to break it up a bit. I love the dual arms BTW.
Steve |
Post by theuns // May 28, 2007, 4:23am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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tnx Madmouse...
the breastplate is like a chest bone, it will be covered by muscles so you won't see it... the story of the Mecorgians is as follows:
What I had in mind for the MecOrgians [ not finalized on the name yet ] ... is that they are actaully weak...
the only thing robotic about them is the skeleton and the brain is electronic, but because of high-grade metal resources being scarce, the nanoids built with what they could find in the rock, so the skeletan is made of a weak aloy [aluminium if you want] ...
and the electronic brain is also made of low grade materials which makes the productions of brains very complex which involves a kind of fusion of parts that makes repairs impossible, so when the system degrades [ anything from 20 to 50 years ] ... the Mecorgian basically dies...
the rest of the body is organic, there are no power source or motors or hydrolics to drive the skeleton, so organic muscles are grown to animate the skeleton... and to provide energy, an simple digestive system is required to provide energy for the muscle and bio-elictricity to power the brain...
when the msucles are injured or totally destroyed, the Mecorgian can die like any other animal, lack of energy for muscles and organs or power for the brain...
i have some ideas for different versions of Mecorgians like warriors and workers which we can expand for other specialized 'castes' like smal 'flyers' with wing frams instead of 4 arms to allow glide-like action like flying squirels ... etc.
if have ideas for how they reproduce [ something like parents sacrificing pieces of their brains or small batch of nanoids to build a new one for offspring ] and a digestive system [ neumonic jaw powered by muscles to drive a grinder/mincer in a mouth cavity to liquify food and a sealed globule containing waiste excreted from a stomach flap ] with warriors having 2/3 'stomachs' for energy reserves etc. |
Post by kena // May 28, 2007, 4:40am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I'm not sue that I would go with a tail. In any story, your protaginst needs to have weeknesses. Keep up with the "upgrades" and the lowland preditors would have no chance. Just look at the Human race... all our flaws and we can wipe out everything in seconds now.
Perhaps a rope thrower? |
Post by theuns // May 28, 2007, 11:35am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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true, but taking into consideration that they live against a cliff face with hanging structures, it would make sense that they have monkey-features like tails and the tails would be weak, good for climbing only, not a weapon...
in general, the Mecorgians are not very strong, too spite its skeleton appearantly metalic [might be a light but not so strong alluminium alloy or something ] and the fact that they are mostly organic with muscles and organs and protein brains like all animals, they are not very strong...
Here I've added the tail and shortened the legs... also modified the arm so the two front arms are on top of each other so one can hold and object and the other work with finer precision...
:jumpy: |
Post by theuns // May 28, 2007, 12:23pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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added a claw to the end of the tail and changed the breast plate into a rough rib cage...
:jumpy: |
Post by GrimMoroe // May 28, 2007, 12:57pm
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GrimMoroe
Total Posts: 50
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Looks great so far but the area that the neck and shoulders attach to looks to playdoo-ish and smooth for the rest of the piece. |
Post by theuns // May 28, 2007, 8:10pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Hey GrimMoroe, tnx for the compliment :p
I actually did it on purpose to have some contrast between the linear flat surfaced design...
this will also be the 'core' of the creature, a hardened organic container where the brain and heart will be encased and protected and made of Chitin which is what the exoskeletons and carapaces of insects are made of...
this won't be seen once I've added the muscles and other tissue some its actually irrelavant, but I will probably use the control mesh of the Nurbs object instead to keep the polygon count down for design [ 5k poly count ] ...
will do another render with the control mesh version just for comparison... :cool:
:jumpy: |
Post by theuns // May 29, 2007, 12:22pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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This is only the start... creating "melted" objects that ooze over the skeleton to form the muscles...
:jumpy: |
Post by W!ZARD // May 30, 2007, 2:45am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Cool! Interesting characters and a great back story - I like back stories. You've obviously given this project a lot of thought. |
Post by theuns // May 30, 2007, 4:32am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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thanks Wizard... i do tend to think ahead with most of my designs, sometimes too far though which makes the project too big and never ending... lots of details
:jumpy: |
Post by theuns // Jun 1, 2007, 10:27am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Here is the upper leg muscles... haven't had much time but want to finish at least the leg this weekend, perhaps the chest as well... |
Post by theuns // Jun 21, 2007, 9:44am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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i know its been a while, got distracted by pesky old RL ;)
just another version of the arm muscles, re-did them to be more solid than individual since the muscles will be covered by skin and you won't see the detail... plus i need to animate this puppy which would be difficult with too much finde detail... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 21, 2007, 11:37am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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i know its been a while, got distracted by pesky old RL ;)
just another version of the arm muscles, re-did them to be more solid than individual since the muscles will be covered by skin and you won't see the detail... plus i need to animate this puppy which would be difficult with too much finde detail...
Good to see ya back!
If you think RL is bad now wait 'till you have the pleasure of being my age! Hahahaha!
Your models looks great, as you say though there's probably quite a bit of detail you can safely shed before skinning this puppy which will definitely help come animation time. That will be fun to see by the way, these are interesting creatures for sure.
Hey... maybe when Caligari gets to allowing us our own custom avatars you can use one of these! That would be very cool! :D
Battle of the Bots anyone?!? :banana:
Welcome back, you were missed.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by trueSpaced // Jun 21, 2007, 4:35pm
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trueSpaced
Total Posts: 544
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Are all of these screenshots and renders going to be put in one scene??? What kind of computer do you have that can take something like that??? Looks awesome, btw!
-TrueSpaced:banana: |
Post by theuns // Aug 13, 2007, 5:05am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Hey trueSpaced and 3dvisuals dude, sorry for the long delay... didn't get the post notifications for some reason... also, the project I'm working on has shifted to a space station cargo chamber scene to be done first instead of the Cliff village so work on the village has also slowed...
The high detail creature model will not be used in the scene unless i do a VERY close close-up since the detail will be lost on scene level but I like to flesh out the exact look before reducing it to a low detail model for scene use... hmm, a Mecorgian skeletal heead might look nice for an avatar ;)
What I might do is make a render of the scene and use the render as a backdrop for a detailed close-up of the creature in its own scene...
I've a actually started with a nurbs design for the creatures exterior body... here is a small update pic, still very rough...
I'm in two minds on weather I should focus on finishing the village or doing the creature to place in the current scenes... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 5:52am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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This is way cool work here Theuns... love it.
Welcome back (again!)! LOL
Hey, be sure to check out Jayr's new "Immersive Spaces Competition" now that you're back, it would give you a chance to make some of these scenes or entirely new ones INTERACTIVE for use in truePlay exploration!
There's also some GREAT new free tutorials closely related to all that stuff, one from Frootee and one from Délé to give you an idea of how easy it will be to do if you'd like to try it, and some of us are volunteering in that competition to help entrants without trueSpace 7.51 convert their entries for truePlay use as well.
I know, blatant plug.... still, I really think you'd have fun with it if you like and can allocate the time.
In any case, it's great to see you resurrecting this project, and welcome back again!:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 13, 2007, 11:36am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Thanks dude, will definately have a look at the competition, would love to be able to walk around in the scenes myself!!! :) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 13, 2007, 12:26pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Thanks dude, will definately have a look at the competition, would love to be able to walk around in the scenes myself!!! :)
Hi Theuns,
I goofed on the name of the competition but everything else was right!:o
Here's the correct link:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3860 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3860)
Sorry for the mixup, my bad...
See you there!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 15, 2007, 9:56am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Alrighty... the new Immersive Environments Competition have really inspired me to go on with the scene after a few months of inactivity so here is a new addition...
This is an extension of the passenger node where passengers gather after coming up with the main lift [passenger lounge]
It is a stair case leading to the roof of the passenger node from where there will be several egress points in the passenger disembarkment platform. From here you can reach several domicile units or the village center where the Elders hall and village meeting place will be...
The staircase to the top is suspended by ropes and chains from two thick beams and palms are used for roof covers...
Still want to make the palm leaves a little bit softer looking... |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 15, 2007, 10:02am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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This will be a great truePlace for sure. Have you opened/navigated this scene in truePlay1.3 yet? |
Post by roman // Aug 15, 2007, 10:39am
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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This will be a great truePlace for sure. Have you opened/navigated this scene in truePlay1.3 yet?Quite, our challenge will be to make it possible to import those avatars to truePlay2.0 in an easy way. |
Post by theuns // Aug 15, 2007, 11:41pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Hi trueBlue and roman,
trueBlue, I haven't tried this scene yet although I have downloaded truePlay but as I understand it, you can only create a truePlay scene through tS 7x and I only have tS 5 ... but 3dvisuals dude did say that he would convert scenes for non 7x users...
roman, sounds like a great option to have in tP 2 ... would that include an avatar resize option so that it doesn't matter what size/scale the scene was built?
Cheers for now... |
Post by theuns // Aug 16, 2007, 11:00pm
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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another update...
Nurb shapes looks great but they eat up your available polygons and if u have a BIG scene like the cliff colony where they live, you can not have many nurbed creatures unless you have and IBM server to work on ;)
so i will probably be making a low poly version for non-close-ups...
BTW. i took my first design for the Mec-orgians from way back then and also nurbed it a bit and put cloths textures on the low-poly [left] and nurbed one [right] to see what it would look like...
I'm torn between the new lizard-like version and the old more human-like design, since these cyborgs were originally human servant/helper droids a few centuries before... |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 17, 2007, 1:23am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi trueBlue and roman,
trueBlue, I haven't tried this scene yet although I have downloaded truePlay but as I understand it, you can only create a truePlay scene through tS 7x and I only have tS 5 ... but 3dvisuals dude did say that he would convert scenes for non 7x users...
roman, sounds like a great option to have in tP 2 ... would that include an avatar resize option so that it doesn't matter what size/scale the scene was built?
Cheers for now...
Yep, I'll do the conversion for it. In the process since this scene will be quite large I'll report to you privately regarding each step BEFORE I make it, so you will be able to determine the way you wish for each step to be undertaken before I do it.
In some cases, certain aspects of a scene may effect the polycount adversely while on the other hand not contributing a warranted aesthetic to the needs of a scene. A good example of that is curved railings as opposed to using extruded hexagons in their place. Just like nurbs surfaces, all curved surfaces take their toll on overall polycount, but in some cases that toll is worth it for the effect you desire within a scene.
In any case, you, and not I, will have the final say on how you want each poly-reduction technique applied when that time comes. I see that as proper.
Textures are what really frighten me in all these conversions (not just your scene but the converted scenes of any other entrants as well) because the ability to convert them accurately will not always be possible, although I'm sure in most cases it will be. I'll walk each entrant's texture conversions through a "scene versions" approach rather than a step-by-step approach accordingly, otherwise we'd never get it done together with a lot of textures!
The scene looks great, they all do in fact. So don't be too woried about the technical aspects of various conversions.... we'll get you there.;)
On your question to Roman concerning future Avatar scale sizing in truePlay 2, while I wouldn't know the answer to that myself, it makes sense that since truePlay2 will be introducing user-designed custom avatars, there will arise the need to be able to scale them upon introduction to the truePlace online environments... otherwise long arms (doorway and path width issues) and long legs (doorway and ceiling height issues) would very likely arise as we all create our own exotic and interesting new avatars.:)
PS: Your high poly WITH low poly approach on the creatures is wise.;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by theuns // Aug 17, 2007, 1:36am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Wow! Souds like quite a few complexities that will arise in the conversion, won't be just a straight forward 'click-and-done' thing :)
I'm sure we will sort it out somehow..
Ps. Is there a way to see what your scene poly count is other than manually selecting [ lasso ] alll objects in the scene? |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 17, 2007, 3:26am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Wow! Souds like quite a few complexities that will arise in the conversion, won't be just a straight forward 'click-and-done' thing :)
I'm sure we will sort it out somehow..
Ps. Is there a way to see what your scene poly count is other than manually selecting [ lasso ] alll objects in the scene?
Yes there is a way... lemme see if I can remember now.
I think you first make sure nothing is selected in your scene. Then right click on your Arrow Icon. A Dialog box should appear. Somewhere in there is the total scene polycount. At least that's how it used to work with some versions.
If that doesn't work, ask that question in the older versions area of this forum for better advice from those who are more familiar there with TS5.1, which I never had before.
Hope that helps,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by spacekdet // Aug 17, 2007, 6:15am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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OOO OOO! I know this one!
3D visuals is close, but take a look at this:
http://www.spacekdet.com/tutorials/polycount/ |
Post by roman // Aug 17, 2007, 1:52pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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I'm torn between the new lizard-like version and the old more human-like design, since these cyborgs were originally human servant/helper droids a few centuries before...I liked those mechanical creatures on previous page much better. Perhaps they could be simplified for tP2.0 but in 2,000-5,000 polygon budget for an avatar you should get reasonable realism. We are still debating if we should use LOD for avatars when they move further away from the view so that would be automatic poly reduction.
If you want this to be a truePlay2.0 environment, you might consider upgrading to tS7.5 (I think everybody should:) You could easily add scripts to your great environments, better real time lighting and materials etc. Upgrade prices are reasonable and if the project looks good we would consider adding you to Beta team where you would have direct access to our developers. |
Post by theuns // Aug 18, 2007, 12:16am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Hey 3d, now that you mention it, I have seen that before and when i tried it, it work ie nothing selected shows the total scene poly count... btw. the scene stands at 32090 polygons at the moment...
tnx, spacekadet, will have a look ;)
Hi Roman, LOD sounds like a good idea, especially for massive scenes and if you can have multiple high detail avatars...
I would love to get my hands on 7.5 but since I'm a hobbiest, I can't afford it right now...from what i've seen and heard, 7.5 is amazing! It would be great if could be involved in the beta team :) |
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