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A spot of fishing.
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
A spot of fishing. // Work in Progress
Post by jayr // Jun 22, 2007, 3:59am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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The environment in this pic is excellent, reminds me somehow of the swampy areas in Morrowind, although better modelled and textured. I like the lighting too.
Burt doesn't look quite right though, not sure what it is. it might be the materials but he doesn't quite fit into the scene somehow.
It's still a great pic though |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 22, 2007, 4:37am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Nice work on this one W!ZARD.
I have no idea how you manage to get that kind of soft and feathery "goose down" look to the foliage... it's really amazing to me.
As for suggestions on this I can only offer one which is kind of along the lines of what WWOTW stated earlier here... the legs. Seems to me that if you use the soft selection tool in 7.5x you may be able to introduce some pants folds/wrinkles to catch some shadow and make the legs stand out a tad less. Aside from that this is perfect in my opinion, and with all the great renders you've been coming up with here lately I should think it's quite likely that you will get your Vray licence from upcoming Winners Gallery submissions.
Best of luck on that, and "break a staff!" ;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 22, 2007, 7:31pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Man you guys are one tough audience! Mind you I wouldn't have it any other way :D . Thanks to your comments I've been able to lift this picture to a higher level and without your encouragement I would have left it a long time ago!
Anyway, here it is, the latest incarnation of Burt the Elf's fishing trip to the pond at Dingly Dell.
As suggested I have:
-Brightened and lightened fairy wings.
-Made the boring bit on the right more interesting by shifting and adding plants and a small waterfall.
-Repositioned light to better illuminate Burt and to show his shadow more clearly
-Adjusted Burts trouser legs and knees (again).
-Adjusted gamma to brighten the whole thing slightly
-Some post process adjustments of textures and added copyright notice (as per Steinie's suggestion).
-discovered several new and interesting ways to crash trueSpace that I wasn't previously aware of!
-Discovered that when the manual says you can easily change the bitmaps in the displacement tools by double clicking on brush texture rectangle it really means control double click!
So here it is..... |
Post by kena // Jun 22, 2007, 8:06pm
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kena
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I like it. the only thing that sticks out at me now is the fact that the line is not making any ripples in the water... could you post-process that? Or even add some clear torus shapes around it. about three should do it. Then if you submit it this month, I will have no reason to feel down about loosing. :D |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 22, 2007, 8:08pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Now that's one perfect render. Outstanding.
I really learn a lot from you W!ZARD, your finished masterpieces are a genuine journey for me to places no one else could visualize. Thanks for that.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by splinters // Jun 22, 2007, 10:17pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Great work Wizard but I do have one or two crits. Such good modelling and composition seems to be lost in the detail and lighting. I imagine this being more ethereal and dreamlike, not unlike Ridley Scott's Legend. I just think there is a lot going on with little to draw me into the main areas...it is great work but I kinda hoped it would become a little clearer. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 22, 2007, 10:31pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks guys -
Splinters I think I know where you're coming from. I'm not sure how I could make it clearer without repositioning everything. I've used a projector light to cast the shadows and tried to place things accordingly - plus any significant deviation I made to the lighting clashed with the background image. <Shrug> This was one of those pictures that sort of developed almost accidentally. I started playing with the softpaint tools and made some cool rocks and then added plants and so on and on. It was never really planned out properly and I think that shows.
I'm pleased enough with it as it stands though - I've too many other projects calling for my attention now..... It's been a good learning experience though - I now know a lot more about tS 7.51 than I did two weeks ago. |
Post by splinters // Jun 22, 2007, 10:35pm
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splinters
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If I may be so bold, I made some simple (and rough) changes in Photoshop to show what I mean. This is difficult without the source material and it may be a bit over the top but it is simply to illustrate what I meant.
Hope you see this for what it is....just a suggestion...:D |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 22, 2007, 11:21pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Aw hey! That's cool! Maybe I should just enter your editied version in this months gallery? LOLO.
Thanks Paul - I see what you mean about 'ethereal' and the reference to Ridley Scotts 'Legend' ( a fav movie of mine).
Far be it from me to fly in the face of public opinion (well probably not ;) ) but I see a lot of Fairy art that is all floaty and dreamy and looks like the artist overdid the datura tea or OD'ed on laudenum. I've always liked the idea that fairys, gnomes and elves etc actually exist as solid corporeal creatures, just like people and squirrels and birds and things - thus I tend to shy away from the usual floaty approach, even though I probably shoot myself in the foot in the process!
I do like your treatment of this picture even though it's all a bit too 'fairytale' for my usual taste - you've certainly given me food for thought and I'll be interested to see what others think - there's still a few days before the end of the month.... |
Post by rrf // Jun 23, 2007, 2:31am
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rrf
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W!ZARD,
I like it very much, the changes that you have made enliven the composition and overall 'feeling' of the piece. The only thing that I can see now is the skin color of the Gnome himself. It could be that that's the actual real life skin color of a Gnome,( only you would know...) but I think it would look better if his skin had a little more of a 'healthy' look to it - more like the Fairies perhaps?
As always, Great Work W!ZARD ! I'm actually thinking of trying to model a 'Gnome' of my own now (it would be my first attempt at a figure) Thanks for the Inspiration :)
rf |
Post by Steinie // Jun 23, 2007, 3:12am
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Steinie
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I took Splinters alterations and added my own adjustments. Get some color into this piece and make it alive! You can get even and make my next character "Walk the Plank":p |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 23, 2007, 4:04am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I took Splinters alterations and added my own adjustments. Get some color into this piece and make it alive! You can get even and make my next character "Walk the Plank":p
Some colour? What, green isn't a colour? This one definitely looks like too much datura tea! And walking the plank? Pirates are, like, so last month! (Did anyone see the latest Pirates of the Carribean movie?). This month it's Transformers!
rrf - re Burts skin colour - it's actually exactly ther same texture as the fairy skin! The difference is the lighting which comes from a projector light through a black and white mask to create the shadows - I don't think the white light does much for Burts skin tones. Good luck with your gnome. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Jun 23, 2007, 4:57am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
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Steinie's take on Splinters adjustment gives it a real lift, takes it from tranquil and gives it a real magical/mystical feeling which, in my opinion, gives it far more interest as a viewer.
I still have a problem with Burt, he just doesn't work for me. Apart from his knee (which looks like he's got a football for a kneecap) he looks like a young person in a really bad disguise and just doesn't 'fit in' with the picture. Sorry W!Z. These are, of course, just my opinions.
I like everything else though, and I really like the sparkles around your signature. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 23, 2007, 7:59pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I still have a problem with Burt, he just doesn't work for me. Apart from his knee (which looks like he's got a football for a kneecap) he looks like a young person in a really bad disguise and just doesn't 'fit in' with the picture. Sorry W!Z. These are, of course, just my opinions.
I like everything else though, and I really like the sparkles around your signature.
Well Kate I bow to your judgement given that you are our resident expert on people with pointy hats! FWIW I also have problems with Burt and with his knee - who would have known gnome knees would be so problematic? I think that had I set out to actually make this picture rather than just letting it evolve I would have taken a far different approach. Alpha hair instead of tS hair, specific textures for his face with wrinkles and rosy cheeks and so on.
Several times I've tried rendering the scene without Burt and the fairys, just going for a simple forest scene, but I've got so used to him being there it looked empty without him. At one stage I even started to completely remodel Burt from scratch going for a more cartoon character look but that didn't quite pan out either - after repeatedly crashing tS due to my hamfisted efforts with the new mirror modeler I thought sod it I'll go with the Burt I've got - and that's what I've done.
And while I like Splinters adjustments I found Steinies to be a little over the top for me, making it look like an illustration in a childrens book which is exactly the effect I want to avoid! |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 24, 2007, 2:24am
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Jack Edwards
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Wizard can you repeat the mirror modeler crash? I'm sure the dev guys would be very interested in what geometry and/or tool sequence causes it. If you could e-mail Paul Ashington the scene, that might help as well.
The waterfall is a really nice touch btw. It solves the problem with right side of the image lacking interest in an elegant way.
-Jack. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 24, 2007, 4:26am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Wizard can you repeat the mirror modeler crash? I'm sure the dev guys would be very interested in what geometry and/or tool sequence causes it. If you could e-mail Paul Ashington the scene, that might help as well.
The waterfall is a really nice touch btw. It solves the problem with right side of the image lacking interest in an elegant way.
-Jack.
Sorry Jack I've deleted the scene that was causing the problems. I'm also reasonably confident that it was user error - I was trying to use the MM like the old one in 6.6 but they are two very different beasts! Not only that but I had not read the manual fully and so was not up with the play as far as welding distances and so forth - I'm still not but I suspect that this is where the problem lay.
Thanks for your comments about the water fall - I've decided to put another even of effort into this scene and have a final render cooking on my other PC as I type. Watch this space for developments! ;) |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 24, 2007, 5:18am
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nowherebrain
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First off, I did not read the other posts..I thought it may bias my judgement, but straight out...
1) It seems a bit flat, it took me a second to realize the scale of the gnoe(or whatever he is..
2) not very dynamic, as far as lighting. maybe a little bit of green directional light coming in and a very soft tuquoise colored light coming from the water. All of wich should cast some shadow, very soft...very subtle.
3) Great setting, the tiny mushroom homes and the theme in general, I love fantasy, as you may know. I think you hit the theme spot on.
EDIT: I just noticed the second render(or at leas the one a few posts up) this is a bit better lighting, but a bit bright on the center piece. It does not give much room to play with adding any light, as it is very close(if not touching on) washing out. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 24, 2007, 5:33am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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OK - Thanks to everyone for your help and encouragement with this scene - I've given up on it a few times but the response here has kept bringing me back - and given that I'm really keen to move onto my next project this is also a good test for my patience.
Speaking of patience I should like to call on everyone elses now - only a few days till the end of the month and I can't decide which way to go - with gnome or without.
I've hopefully addressed Splinters and Steinies suggestions by using some volumetric lighting (can you do that in V-Ray) which changes the feel a little and adds a slightly sunny colour palette. Anyway, I'm going with one of these two versions - what is the concensus here? |
Post by splinters // Jun 24, 2007, 5:57am
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splinters
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Just a bit more light on the fishing gnome and you are really getting there with this. Maybe you could give the fairies a little light glow to help illuminate the fisherman, just an omni next to each with a short drop off and high luminance..maybe a hint of yellow.
Not too fairy soft though...of course...:D |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 24, 2007, 9:40am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Best of luck W!ZARD,
I still firmly believe the image in Post # 33 here is the winner by far.
I defer to your prior experience with the Caligari judges, however, so if I must I vote for image number 2 above.
I'm looking forward to your next project as well.
Break a Staff!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 24, 2007, 9:51am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I agree with splinters, now it seems there is no center piece without a bit more illumination. You could composite the volumetric setup against the V-ray setup and that would give you some very nice results I think. |
Post by kena // Jun 24, 2007, 10:10am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Definatly with the gnome... looks too empty without. |
Post by Morgan // Jun 24, 2007, 9:11pm
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Morgan
Total Posts: 138
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With the fairies and Bert, definitely. |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 24, 2007, 11:20pm
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weaveribm
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Dappled shade means sunbeams? Volumetric of course <runs away> :)
Peter |
Post by Nez // Jun 25, 2007, 12:16am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well I've been away from this one for a while, so it's been interesting to catch up on the recent raft of changes.
I really like volumetrics (although my PC doesn't) and like the look of the last image with Bert and co - just think it could do with a tiny bit more light from the front (i.e. from camera direction) to ensure the shadows don't get too dark. Or some reflected light from the water? May just be my monitor settings though...
Good luck... I certainly wouldn't want to be up against you in a Gallery submission (although the judging does sometimes seem a bit strange - best not getting into that thorny subject though...) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 25, 2007, 8:16am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well a huge mega-thanks to all who commented and had input about this picture - it's been something of a mission. I've just uploaded my entries for this months Calligallery contest including a new version of this fishing picture. I think I've acted on just about every suggestion made except for the sparkly fairy dust idea :D . A big thanks especially to Splinters for showing me it could work with a different colour palette and to Nez for the last suggestion which I've acted on this evening. I hope everyone likes the result.:o
I'll post the finalised version in the completed artworks forum once Roman has finalised the Gallery selections. Thanks again. |
Post by splinters // Jun 25, 2007, 8:41am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Good luck Wizard, I am going to tweak some Little Cloud images and enter them this month...;)
As for thanking me for the colour suggestion; that was actually Steinie, I just mentioned contrast and softness...:D |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 25, 2007, 5:21pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Good Luck!!!! Can we vote on it? post a link if so. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 26, 2007, 3:38am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Good luck Wizard, I am going to tweak some Little Cloud images and enter them this month...;)
As for thanking me for the colour suggestion; that was actually Steinie, I just mentioned contrast and softness...:D
(Chuckles)Then I thank both you and Steinie. It was however your modification to my render that set me thinking outside the box that I was in.
And good luck to you as well with your Little Cloud images. Ironically enough, you Little Cloud piocs have been a real ray of sunshine for me - it's the middle of winter where I am and cold as a... er.. very cold thing.
@Nowherebrain - Thanks for the luck - and sorry no, you can't vote on this. One of the perks of Romans job is he gets to decide which pictures go into the official Caligari Gallery - I suspect it's one of the highlights of his month although I also suspect it can be challenging to choose one winner over all the other good stuff that's entered. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 27, 2007, 12:26am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Ahh, I thought you were referring to renderosity or some other off site contest. |
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