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Snailey
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Snailey // Work in Progress
Post by Matski007 // May 30, 2007, 12:43pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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ok, so my spaceship design is on hold until I can do something a little more simple and work my way up. Ive decided to make a snail, and everything was going okay until I realised how the hell am I going to make a snail shell?! lol, i cant for the life of me figure how how to go about doing it so any ideas would be great. This is totally made in Workspace, apart from I cut the original unsmoothed version in half in Model side so I could use mirror mode and also to add the lights.
Tell me what you think, I reckon im going to go for a realistic look so texturing might get tricky
http://smos.objectpaths.net/snail.jpg |
Post by Burnart // May 30, 2007, 1:14pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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This is one of those infrequent occasions when an image referred to in the post just isn't visible at my end - I've tried refreshing the page and going back and reloading the thread but still nothing.... |
Post by weaveribm // May 30, 2007, 1:59pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Very nice!
The spiral equation is not linear but probably in the Fibonacci series with a multiplier 1.618
Peter |
Post by Burnart // May 30, 2007, 2:28pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Honestly I'm seeing no attached pic. Anyone know why?
EDIT: Suddenly appeared after refreshing from the reply page ..... still curious about why this happens from time to time. I reloaded this page a number of times before posting my inability to see the pic both times.
The snail emerges from the shell opening which should be a spiral cone shape - have you tried bending a simple cone shape into roughly the sight shape then applying subdiv? Next qu. can that actually be done in workspace? |
Post by kena // May 30, 2007, 4:05pm
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kena
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nope - looks like it has to be done in the model view. I cannot even see how to inport plugins in the workspace view. |
Post by Matski007 // May 31, 2007, 12:35am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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If I could taper the Lathe tool, so that I can create a spiral that becomes smaller at the end that would be perfect, but you cant do that, the only other way is to do a sweep but you have to get the first sweep perfect so it continues to spiral and get smaller and believe me it doesnt work too well.
it is probably easier to do in Maya, but I feel a bit like its cheating because although I need to learn Maya for my course, it isnt good posting in these forums. Yet on the other side of the argument loads of people here seem to use other software too.
But basically I would prefer to be able to do this in TS.
weaveribm Very nice!
The spiral equation is not linear but probably in the Fibonacci series with a multiplier 1.618
Peter
Id like to say I understand that, buy I just dont lol, maths isnt my strongest subjects.
Burnart
The snail emerges from the shell opening which should be a spiral cone shape - have you tried bending a simple cone shape into roughly the sight shape then applying subdiv? Next qu. can that actually be done in workspace?
Glad you can finally see the image. I dont think that is possible in the workspace and Im not sure how id go about bending a cone in that way
Here is the image im working from:
http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/photos/others/roman-snail-21973.jpg |
Post by weaveribm // May 31, 2007, 12:57am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Sometimes mysterious hints can be stimulating: is the basic idea :)
Knowing the 1.618 ('golden') ratio I was wondering if a script (or something) could generate the correct type of spiral for a natural form. The golden ratio expresses the growth of a natural form like a shell or flower, someone might have an idea of how to sweep? a basic shape to grow the natural form within TrueSpace
Plus your snail work is fascinating :)
Maybe a slice of a Swiss roll shape (me too, I know very little about maths or TrueSpace so I have to talk about cakes, the things I know about lol) could be swept where the first tiny slice would be the unit. The swept 'slices' would be 1.618 times the size of the first slice and swept through some angle to be determined by eye
xxxxxxxxx (unit-sized Swiss roll slice, very tiny, the first tiny snail when it was a baby)
Next sweep at some snail-shell-like angle
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (1.618 times the last size)
Next sweep
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (and so on to the opening of the shell)
Very tiny sweeps
Something to experiment with on rainy days anyway :)
Peter |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 12:58am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi Matski007,
I know one method that will work for sure, I've used it in TS6.6 before so I suppose it would work on Modelside of 7.5 but it requires you obtain the Coolpowers 2 set of plugins, and I'm not sure where they can be had now that PrimitiveItch has dissappeared.
Here's an old info page on CoolPowers2 - look for the specific plugin on that page called "Multiplex"
http://www.coolpowers.com/projects/freecp/originfo/cp2/info.html
This was at some point a free plugin set (CoolPowers2) I believe. (although I may have paid for it long ago, I don't recall!)
I know for a fact it can make the shapes you need from array replication and control (tapering) of primitives... I've done it before.:cool:
Hope this helps....
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 1:12am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Sometimes mysterious hints can be stimulating: is the basic idea :)
Knowing the 1.618 ('golden') ratio I was wondering if a script (or something) could generate the correct type of spiral for a natural form. The golden ratio expresses the growth of a natural form like a shell or flower, someone might have an idea of how to sweep? a basic shape to grow the natural form within TrueSpace
Plus your snail work is fascinating :)
Maybe a slice of a Swiss roll shape (me too, I know very little about maths or TrueSpace so I have to talk about cakes, the things I know about lol) could be swept where the first tiny slice would be the unit. The swept 'slices' would be 1.618 times the size of the first slice and swept through some angle to be determined by eye
xxxxxxxxx (unit-sized Swiss roll slice, very tiny, the first tiny snail when it was a baby)
Next sweep at some snail-shell-like angle
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (1.618 times the last size)
Next sweep
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (and so on to the opening of the shell)
Very tiny sweeps
Something to experiment with on rainy days anyway :)
Peter
Hi Peter,
Aside from making me hungry just now I think you may well be onto something very good here... if one (who knows scripting - unlike you and I at the moment) were to utilize your concept above combined with a vertically tapered helix array of spline circles about a vertical pole line one could then readily loft or blend the circles and produce the desired effect.
Something tells me that when you do eventually grasp trueSpace scripting you will be producing some very fascinating tools for us all. ;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 1:25am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Found the updated download link for CoolPowers plugins - you need CoolPowers2
http://freecp.sourceforge.net/
Sorry to keep jumping into your thread like this but it is a fascinating project! :D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Matski007 // May 31, 2007, 2:28am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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3dvisuals dude Found the updated download link for CoolPowers plugins - you need CoolPowers2
http://freecp.sourceforge.net/
Sorry to keep jumping into your thread like this but it is a fascinating project!
- 3dvisuals dude
Cheers man, glad people are taking an interest is all. I got the plugins but I cant really figure it out, I decided that using a sphere to be replicated should work, but it isnt really giving me very refined spirals, they seem to go out quite far |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 4:49am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Cheers man, glad people are taking an interest is all. I got the plugins but I cant really figure it out, I decided that using a sphere to be replicated should work, but it isnt really giving me very refined spirals, they seem to go out quite far
Oh yeah... I forgot about that!
I had to play with that plugin for a couple of hours before I got it to do what I had in mind (which was similar to your current snailshell need). It's been quite a while since I played with it but I vaguely recall that it has a dialog with x-y-z input that needs close attention for your solution here... I think it was a matter of entering integers in some fields and decimals in others that finally worked, although you still may end up having to do a scale along one axis to tighten it afterward. Sphere's do work, and I know that even weird non-primitive glued items also work, but I don't recall whether spline circles work. If spline circles work you can loft/blend them afterward as an alternative to using spheres but you will need a lot of circles!
I do recall images and models I made years ago with that particular plugin which did look like your snail reference photo (which appears to have vanished now from this thread btw) so I know if you play with it long enough it can do what you need! I went through a lot of trial and error with it also and a few crashes as I recall, but it is usefull with a tall cup of coffee or a pint as a companion!;)
If I have a chance later today I'll resurrect it and see what I can recall for settings, in the meantime have fun with it and all the other great and free CoolPowers plugins there! (try "hoser" too! ;) )
Until then -
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by kena // May 31, 2007, 5:20am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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you know... I used the sweep tool to make several columns for a project I was working on building a temple.. As I recall, the hardest part was to prevent the extruded disk from getting bigger, and starting to spiral out as well as up.
The weekend is coming up, and I may be able to see if I can come up with something... If you don't want to use the object I make you can always use the numbers I come up with. Maybe someone can make a script. |
Post by e-graffiti // May 31, 2007, 5:21am
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e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
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I realised how the hell am I going to make a snail shell?! lol, i cant for the life of me figure how how to go about doing it so any ideas would be great.
I am a big fan of the Golden Spiral which is derived from the Golden ratio of 1.61803. I am fascinated with how the ratio appears so much in nature, such as in the formation of a snail shell! One way to approximate this phenomena in tS is by loading the golden spiral and use it as a modeling plane. Use circular splines with scaling, moving, and rotating to follow the shape. Skin the splines and there is your Golden Spiral shell! I did this pretty quickly today as a demo to you so you will need to be much more careful then what I did with aligning the inner circles so no gaps but I am sure you get the picture.
6513
6514
6515
6516 |
Post by Matski007 // May 31, 2007, 6:00am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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wow thanks for your help guys, didnt expect so much attention. Well Ill give all these ideas ago, Ive no idea what circular splines are lol but Ill look into that.
I just got my old Film SLR camera working so Im about to go out and take some nice photos down by the river, ill give this a go when I get back. |
Post by e-graffiti // May 31, 2007, 6:16am
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e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
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Ive no idea what circular splines are lol but Ill look into that.
Look under "circle drawn by" tool sets. The Skin tool I mentioned is a part of your NURBS toolset.
Regarding the lathe tool. It would be nice if it had a "scaling" feature as part of the helix set, then this would be pretty easy to do. |
Post by Heidi // May 31, 2007, 7:14am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Cool! :)
I've been working on a snail project too, but I wasn't going for realism. I started a cylindar turned onto it's side and then used the polygon draw tool to literally draw on the spiral and faces. I then used normal sweep on the spiral I'd drawn.
I haven't tried coolpowers... definitely have to check those out :)
There's also another little freebie program called Spiralizer (http://www.armanisoft.ch/webdesign/spiralizer/Spiralizer.html) that you may want to checkout. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 31, 2007, 8:20am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Another approach that may help; on the modeller side make a disc shape (I just used the fillet tool on 4 edges of a cube. RMC to enter PE mode and select a the tope face of your disc. Click Macro sweep, open path library and click the 'cone smooth' path - you should see a conical path leading from your selected face. LMC the macro sweep tool again, then RMC the macro sweep tool - a small dialogue box with the option to "bend" will appear - click that. Hey presto a helical snail shell type object! You'll probably want to fine tue it or even create a specific custom path but you may find that exploring this option gives you ... well, more options! :D |
Post by Burnart // May 31, 2007, 1:06pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Ha Ha - Nice one Heidi I like it. Please show when you are all finished. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 1:35pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Wow!
Many excellent suggestions here and each with different uses and nuances!
(and thank you W!ZARD for showing us all a way to do this in 7.5 Workspace, I had a feeling it was there right there in front of us undetected all along!);)
Well, as for the Multiplex plugin in CoolPowers2, I remember now that it was tricky to get the correct effect because it depended on having the first x-y-z- settings (on the left side of the dialog box) set to WORLD rather than OBJ (toggle beneath the settings). So when I would try a few number settings which were either close or far from my desired shape I had to make a new sphere each time guessing at the relative size in world coordinates as I dragged the sphere creation tool in the workspace. (until I started saving it!)
As I recall a huge initial sphere (relative to the screen) gave the tightest results, but I'll play with it tonight and see what else I can find out too.
It also occurs to me that if you use the Boxed Golden Spiral image which E-graffiti kindly posted here as a template, you could draw a spline over the spiral and scale it vertically when done to creat a perfect path too!;)
Great thread, very helpful!
P.S. - @Matski007 - I right clicked your snail reference photo in this thread and found that it has a most interesting filename!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by dononeton // May 31, 2007, 3:17pm
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dononeton
Total Posts: 81
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I got good results by doing and nice rough modlel then subd 1 time. It started out as a cone rotated 90 on the y axis and extruded and scaled a few times and then picked a spot where the snail would come out of and extruded and scaled that part a couple times. Then of course you could spend a hour or so moving verts around to get it looking more organic
You could use NURBS but I was not able to get it looking good, that poor snail
Hope that helps |
Post by dononeton // May 31, 2007, 3:56pm
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dononeton
Total Posts: 81
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i just had to add the snail |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // May 31, 2007, 4:56pm
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Wow, who'd've thought snails would be so popular? :-)
http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imagesgallery/2004/Aug/image.asp?Cate=GImages&img=778&email=kate.rhodes@btinternet.com&name=Katherine%20Rhodes |
Post by Steinie // May 31, 2007, 4:58pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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...or "S Cargo" in my Gallery...:) |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 31, 2007, 6:33pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Cheers man, glad people are taking an interest is all. I got the plugins but I cant really figure it out, I decided that using a sphere to be replicated should work, but it isnt really giving me very refined spirals, they seem to go out quite far
Ok Matski007,
here's an image of the end result next to a MultiPlex settings panel with setting that actually work! :D I already had the plugin installed in my version of TS6.6 so I used that version for this demo.
(I was wrong though about needing to use the "world" coordinates toggle:o )
Here's the setting followed by the Cobfile output (6.6 format)
Note that after using these settings on a sphere I deleted the first two spheres (the largest) then manually scaled the last three spheres (the smallest) proportionally - then I boolean unioned all the spheres except the largest into one object. I then scaled the largest sphere down proportionally a tad and selected the entire object (except the largest sphere which was a second object now) and used boolean difference with the large sphere as the cutting object. All that remains is to clean up the edges at the end of the shell object to make it look more natural. Voilla! ;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // May 31, 2007, 10:56pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I blame the Magic Roundabout :)
Dude lovely work. That would be the snail when he's about 4mm and his shell is highly magnified can you keep growing the shell with as many coils as a real snail shell?
I'm a bit worried that you're all secretly working on an advertising campaign to sell edible snails to the British public they look a bit too attractive :)
Hmm rock pool scenes: polished pebbles, seashells, limpets ooh crabs. Look up and out to sea and there's that TS galleon hoving to and smugglers with lamps drawing the doomed seamen on to the rocks. Someone's doused the lighthouse lamp <sinister cellos>
Peter |
Post by Matski007 // Jun 1, 2007, 1:55am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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well, i dont know where to begin heh, however I think that the multiplex way of doing this comes out with a better result, somehow it just looks more organic because of its slight imperfections. Unfortunatly I gotta go to work, every time I want to get onto doing this I get called away.
Ill post an update later hopefully, and thank you all so much for your help! I appreciated this so much! |
Post by JPSofCA // Jun 1, 2007, 6:24am
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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Wow, who'd've thought snails would be so popular? :-)
They're the next "penguins"! :banana: |
Post by Steinie // Jun 1, 2007, 6:36am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Wow, who'd've thought snails would be so popular? :-)
They're the next "penguins"! :banana:
I had a Snail for a pet, fed it a salty pretzel....bad childhood memory....;) |
Post by JPSofCA // Jun 1, 2007, 8:19am
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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The model side lathe tool makes for an easy, customizable snail shell...
Crudey - the Shell without a Snail: |
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