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Butterfly on a rhodedendron
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Butterfly on a rhodedendron // Work in Progress
Post by kena // Jun 4, 2007, 3:42pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Not really certain where I'm going with this one... Just seemed like a good Idea at the time. |
Post by Steinie // Jun 4, 2007, 4:20pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I would tone down the bump map on the floor. Move camera in more and focus on the dish/butterfly/flower as the central theme. Try to get some blue into the water. Increase the reps on the woodgrain on the table. The shadows are way too harsh for a delicate scene. If your using 7.5 I would definitely use some bloom.
These are what came to mind when I saw your rendering. Try some of these ideas out and see if you like them. Looks like a fun project! |
Post by kena // Jun 4, 2007, 5:09pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I played about with a bit of lighting... I will try the water and bloom next. |
Post by kena // Jun 4, 2007, 5:37pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Good. a learning opurtunity... the manual says:
The bloom effect actually consists of two parts: Bloom and Glow. Both effects can be freely combined and blended when Bloom is enabled in the post-processing panel. First. Why can I only see the Post-processing panel in the Model view.
Second. Since I do not find "Bloom" anywhere there.. how do you enable/work with Bloom?
EDIT: Ah-HA!!! the Manuel never states that you have to go to the settings tab at the right. |
Post by trueBlue // Jun 4, 2007, 6:23pm
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trueBlue
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Is this what you mean? Sometimes you have to select the D3D View's Titlebar with the Settings aspect showing in the Stack. |
Post by kena // Jun 4, 2007, 6:34pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Yes - thank you TrueBlue
However, even with the bloom settings set to a point where you an barely see anything of the central subject, I think I'm missing something.
No Bloom. |
Post by Shike // Jun 4, 2007, 9:40pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Is it a render or a realtime scene your after?
Bloom is only for the realtime view, but you can fake it with a blurred layer in a paintprogram.
(there are postprocess plugins that can do it for renders, but unless you do animation it's better to do it in Photoshop/PaintshopPro/Gimp.) |
Post by Vizu // Jun 4, 2007, 10:46pm
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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I like youre idea for the Image but not the conversion.
Bump is to high, light shadows and surfaces looks to flat and u use the standard Truespace materials. Bad choice.
I hope you have no problem with my critic.
I can´t make it better but the idea is so good that i belive it is worth to spend more time in scene setup.
Excuse my poor english |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 4, 2007, 10:53pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree with Visu. The table material in particular makes the scene look like it was done on a legacy version of TS....
I like the idea and this scene just screams for more detail and VRay. :)
Easiest fixes would be to add more edges around the edges of the table. Even a single bevel or extrude can help with the real-time display as well as during render. It'll also let you SDS the object without it deforming like crazy for VRay or lightworks render. Remember in real life there no such thing as a perfect or sharp edge. ;)
Good luck on this one Kena!
BTW if you're looking for free textures you can start here:
http://mayang.com/textures/
You may have to do some work in GIMP or PS to get the texture to work with your scene and you'll have to UV map your objects, but the results are much nicer.
-Jack. |
Post by kena // Jun 5, 2007, 5:06am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Thanks for the advice.
Shrike - It's a render I'm after, I think.
Visu, I will play with the floor bump. It's at 0.300 now. (and English is such a mutable language that I think you do very well.)
Jack - this is - unfortunately V-ray already as I'm still trying to learn how to muck about with it. I will check out the textures.
Question... if Bloom is for real-time only, why is it called a post-process? Am I supposed to turn off wireframe and take a screenshot? I'm defiantly confused on this one.
I could not figure a way to make a single plane look like several lamitated boards, so the table top is actually made of 6 "boards". I'm trying to go for a very tacky late-60s style cheap table. |
Post by TomG // Jun 5, 2007, 6:05am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Bloom is post process, applied to the real-time render. The real-time render calculates all the lighting etc from the 3D scene then generates a finished image. From this image (and not from the 3D scene) bloom and glow effects are applied.
Since they happen after the render pass, they are still named post process :)
They do only apply to real-time renders though and not to offline renders. They will apply to what you see in the workspace in real-time, and to any renders you take from real-time workspace using the Render To File tool on the workspace side.
Bloom etc will need to be applied in a 2D application for offline renders.
EDIT - note, no need to "take a screenshot" from the workspace, you can save your image (or animation) with its Render To File tool.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by spacekdet // Jun 5, 2007, 8:05am
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spacekdet
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Not to sidetrack the technical discussion, but that's either a very small butterfly or an enormous rhodie bloom....er, blossom. |
Post by kena // Jun 5, 2007, 10:37am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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It's a small butterfly. I didn't want his bigger brother to block the pretty flowers. |
Post by rj0 // Jun 5, 2007, 12:59pm
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rj0
Total Posts: 167
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Bevel all 'sharp' edges. No edges are truly sharp in nature.
rj |
Post by kena // Jun 5, 2007, 5:05pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Well... here is bloom that sorta works, but for some reason, the V-ray will not render the water as clear... it just looks like dried plaster to me. I had to add an infinite light just to be able to see anything in the scene... any suggestions? |
Post by TomG // Jun 6, 2007, 4:40am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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If you could post a screen grab of the material settings for the water, people will be able to offer some advice on changes :)
My first thought is to ensure that it is not a real-time transparency shader you are using (which will render only in the real-time engine and not in V-Ray). I'd suggest Fresnel for the water, though Glass or Phong (with Transmission added, and no diffuse / ambient) would work too.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by kena // Jun 6, 2007, 5:10am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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You may have put your finger on it Tom....
I'm trying to add bloom to my scene, but apparently that only works with real-time. However, I've used all V-ray shaders. So, what I probably need to do is find the real-time shaders and make the water THAT instead. :D
Um... which ones are the real-time shaders? Yet another lack in the current manual. |
Post by kena // Jun 6, 2007, 5:30am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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AAAAND, I think I've fudged something...
I used TextureBumpTransparencyMetal (which did not show any transparency) and added V-ray transparency to it. Then I re-inspected it and got the parms for transparency. I removed the texture map they provided and used one I created that is just a light blue. here is what I got:
6683
6684
Isn't it strange that you have to make the Transparency lower to get more transparency? One would logically think that a higher value would mean less visibility. ;) |
Post by kena // Jun 6, 2007, 4:41pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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or is this better? |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 6, 2007, 11:04pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Yes kena that last shot is- sumptuous
Oops better check...
"rich and superior in quality"
Yep that's the one :)
Peter |
Post by Steinie // Jun 7, 2007, 1:07am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Kena, looking better and better. For some reason I would use a dark red mahogany wood with a fine grain. I like your improvements a lot! Can you get the rich color back into the wings? A few others mentioned rounding the edges of the table too. Extend your wall on the top right of the render off to the right. The top left of your render is perfect! |
Post by kena // Jun 7, 2007, 1:42pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Yes, I'm going to "build" a new table.. after I finish building a new butterfly... looks too much like a paper butterfly to me. The open area at the top right is the open doorway. No door, just a doorway. Kinda like a square arch between two halves of a open floor plan. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 7, 2007, 4:00pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Looking good Kena - you're progressing in leaps and bounds - this is indeed 'sumptuous' - well done.
The only observations I would make are one's you've already indicated you're going to work on (rounding the table edge a little, further texturing the butterfly).
One comment - I think butterfly wings have two components each whereas thus far your butterfly has on one component per wing. Google up some reference images to see what I mean.
HTH |
Post by kena // Jun 7, 2007, 8:26pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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hey! I was a step ahead for once!
:banana:
here is the latest, and if everything looks ok from here, then I would consider it done and ready to submit. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 8, 2007, 12:24am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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hey! I was a step ahead for once!
:banana:
.
LOL! Well done! That's pretty much exactly what I had in mind. The only other suggestion I could make is mabe a little bit of bump mapping on the wings to suggest texture in the veins and markings - just a thought. |
Post by kena // Jun 8, 2007, 4:27am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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actually, the wings, leaves, flower petals and floor all have texture. the bloom tends to wash those out. I don't mind though. In dreams textures tend to wash out anyway. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 8, 2007, 4:43am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Kena this is much improved. :)
My crit is that the floor texture looks a bit pixelated and the transition from wall to floor is too abrupt -- needs some moulding. ;)
-Jack. |
Post by kena // Jun 8, 2007, 12:14pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Not sure what to do about the floor, but I can check in the garage for some extra molding for the wall. ;) will do that once I get off of work tonight. |
Post by kena // Jun 8, 2007, 10:42pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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OK.... weekends are really bad for me - shoulda been in bed over 3 hours ago...
anyway, sharp shadow, or soft? I think soft, but would really appreciate opinions. I took some molding out of the garage, and fixed the bowl. I also made the light a bit more yellow... looks more like sunlight that way. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 8, 2007, 11:57pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hmmn. You've changed the lighting angle. FWIW I actually prefer the lighting the way it was with more shadow visible. This new light angle sort of hides the shadows and flattens the picture compared to the previous one. I hope that helps. Other than that it's looking great. |
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