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Ian
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Post by W!ZARD // Jun 6, 2007, 4:43am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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IAN - The acronym stands for Inthandonian Aerial Navy - here we see several air vessels on manouvers over the mountainous upper Thando River area. Pictured is the flying flagship "Stormcloud", a Mk 2 Cumulus Class Double Dirigable with an escort of two smaller blimp-type machines.
Still a work in progress but getting close to completion (depending on the feedback of course :D ). This picture spans several years and multiple incarnations of trueSpace. The double dirigible was originally made with tS 3.2 but has since had several upgrades and rebuilds - this time I replaced the old small portholes with bigger side windows and did some texture tweaking too. The gondola of the other aircraft was created as a boat in tS 6.6 and has since been retextured and rebuilt for use as an airship gondola. The three visible crew men were built in tS 5.1, 6.6 and 7.11. All models extensively reworked with tS7.5.
Background was created with MojoWorld 3 Pro using tweaked presets out of the box plus some added sunglare in The GIMP.
Rendered in tS 7.5 using LightWorks renderer - two infinite lights and an IBL.
All comments and suggestions very welcome. |
Post by kena // Jun 6, 2007, 5:02am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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The windows make it look like a floating house... I would go (for an airship) with either merging two windows together and making them half as tall, or use oval windows. Eitehr would have Military application. |
Post by jayr // Jun 6, 2007, 5:39am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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That's exellent stuff W!zard, i love the colouring of the landscape, the design of the airships are great, i did something like it a while ago with a viking longship (just a painting, not 3d). i agree with kena on the windows though, maybe you could add arrow loops or crosses like you get on castles to show some kind military use, so the soilders on board can fire out. |
Post by nick // Jun 6, 2007, 6:07am
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nick
Total Posts: 49
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I find it disturbing how all the vessels look too sharp in the otherwise pretty blurred and DOF-ed background. Isn't it a good idea to add some atmosphere that would help all these ships to dive in - clouds, fog, something else?
I couldn't see much of the details as my monitor shows the picture almost black - is that on purpose? |
Post by nick // Jun 6, 2007, 6:14am
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nick
Total Posts: 49
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The other thing that bothers me is the Sun UNDER the heavy clouds.
I've seen this at night, when the Moon lights over the very light clouds, and the illusion is that the Moon is under the clouds.
But heavy clouds like yours could make terrific VOLUMETRIC effect, that could strengthen the atmospheric effect I've mentioned before - have you thought about that?
Off - BTW, here is the picture after I've retouched it in order to see it normally on my monitor - is it too light that way? |
Post by rrf // Jun 6, 2007, 7:47am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Great, Great, work! Great composition and Color - the Great feeling and mood of this piece would be ruined by lightening the foreground ship (in my opinion) 'Other' worlds have 'other' atmospheric conditions, I like it the way it is very much - (that doesn't mean not to experiment further with the Volumetric stuff) It reminds me of Ed R Burroughs - very well done...No real crit, I personally would have felt better with the propellers pushing from the rear of the engines - can't really put my finger on why...maybe having the props in front pulls the piece too close to what was done here on 'earth' with modern small aircraft.
Whatever you're doing - keep doing it, Great Stuff!
rf
Boy, I wish I could do stuff like this :o |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 7, 2007, 4:35am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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A great looking pic overall!
I agree with others about the windows though, too house-like.
As for the lighting...I too felt your pic is just a little too dark, but nick's touch-up suggestion is a little too light. Maybe something in-between to show off some more of your great details.
I also agree with rrf, a vehicle like that would probably look more natural with "pusher-props", rather than regular props that pull the craft through the air. But in the end, it's your universe, and a very nice looking one btw :D |
Post by spyfrog // Jun 7, 2007, 7:08am
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spyfrog
Total Posts: 181
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A great looking pic overall!
I agree with others about the windows though, too house-like.
As for the lighting...I too felt your pic is just a little too dark, but nick's touch-up suggestion is a little too light. Maybe something in-between to show off some more of your great details.
I also agree with rrf, a vehicle like that would probably look more natural with "pusher-props", rather than regular props that pull the craft through the air. But in the end, it's your universe, and a very nice looking one btw :D
Not that it is any of my business, but I don't think "pusher-props" would be better. The best place to put a prop is in front of the engine - in that way the air can cool the engine in a more effective way. |
Post by Birdnest // Jun 7, 2007, 9:13am
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Birdnest
Total Posts: 152
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looks good! it does need a bit more light....not alot! but a touch lol.
Interesting story you have behind most of your work btw!:cool: |
Post by rrf // Jun 7, 2007, 10:20am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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Maybe I have a bright monitor, but I still like it the way it is... great mood :)
rf |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 7, 2007, 5:03pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks very much for the comments and suggestions folks - most apreciated.
I find it disturbing how all the vessels look too sharp in the otherwise pretty blurred and DOF-ed background. Isn't it a good idea to add some atmosphere that would help all these ships to dive in - clouds, fog, something else?
I couldn't see much of the details as my monitor shows the picture almost black - is that on purpose?
Hmmn - Nick, you may want to look at your monitor settings if it's showing that dark. There is already distance fog in the picture which mostly affects the furthest vessel - the fog is there to give a greater sense of depth. There is no blur or DOF applied at all - the softer background is a result of the volumetric scattering of light in the Mojo render of the landscape. The nearer ships (and especially the nearest) are deliberately sharp - they are closer to the viewer and thus have less depth of atmosphere to create softening effect. The sharpness also acts to visually isolate the foreground ships from the background.
The nearest ship is intended to be reasonably dark - after all, it is silhouetted against the setting sun and in reality would probably look even darker <shrugs> I've tried to balance the silhoutte effect with the desire to show some detail in the models. Notice also how the ships get progressively lighter as they get deeper into the scene (because of light scattering due to the atmosphere.
The other thing that bothers me is the Sun UNDER the heavy clouds.
BTW, here is the picture after I've retouched it in order to see it normally on my monitor - is it too light that way?!Chuckle! You clearly don't live near my place! Seeing the sun like this apparently below the higher cloud level is very common here. Westerly flowing winds hit the mountains and create an orographic wave cloud formation behind them, a dense high level deck of cloud called The Canterbury Arch. The Arch features a band of clear sky along the horizon which causes exactly the effect of the sun under the clouds as shown here. "Is it too light here?" yes definitely, due to the silhuoetting effect mentioned earlier. As an ex photographer I always put a lot of thought into the lighting of my scenes.
@Forcemaster2000 & rrf - pusher propellors (correctly called impellors (or is it the other way around?)) are a good suggestion but I suspect too many people are conditioned to think of props being in front of the motor - plus as spyfrog points out there is the additional cooling advantages of the forward configuration - this vessels won't be moving that quickly so will benefit from the added aircooling effect (I'm trying to sound like an aeronautical engineer here!;) )
Interesting story you have behind most of your work btw!Thanks - whilst there is a story behind much of my work it's more that it tends to be set in an alternative reality - after all I do live in Middle Earth (New Zealand)! - that is fairtly consistent. This allows me to visually explore fantasy realities (even though that's an oxymoron) free of the limitations of the 'real world'.:D
Thanks again to all correspondents - whilst I may not act on all suggestions they have given me food for thought which will lead to some adjustments and additions - the round window idea is something I'll be persuing. |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 7, 2007, 10:37pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Well I like the windows myself. In one of the very first editions of 3D World mag there was a tutorial call 'spam bandits' where they modeled a 'space blimp' that was made to look like it was made from whatever space junk the owners could salvage from deep space. Your render reminds me of that very much and I like it. Maybe white wouldn't of been my choice but the shape if fine.
The lighting also looks fine to me although I do tend to have my monitor brighter that most as my eyes don't do well in low light.
My 1 suggestion would be to have some 'bad guys' in the far distance coming to meet the fleet head on!!!
Great render Stephen (see I'm not at all bitter;) :D )
Steve |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 8, 2007, 11:44pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks Steve.
Well here's an update - I've solved (hopefully) the windows issue by having one ship with rectangles and one with ovals - Mk 1 and Mk 2 variants.
I've upped the fog effect a little and put extra ships of in the distance to show the fog and suggest vast open skies.
MM - Your 'bad guys' suggestion is a good one but would involve modelling a whole extra fleet of airships! I do have some ideas for an aerial battle scene but would need to create lots of human characters for the type of scene I'm imagining - and unless you've got a pirated copy of MASSIVE you can email me that's gonna take me some considerable time to create - heck I still can't get one silly gnome to bend his knees believably yet!
So anyway here is the latest installment - comments please. |
Post by kena // Jun 9, 2007, 4:52am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I like the oval windows - they are very well done. Might want to lighten the curtains though... I had to squint to see them, and as much as we suggested them would like to see. :D Honestly, I think they are much better than the rectangle ones. adding the ones in the distance was also a good Idea. |
Post by Steinie // Jun 9, 2007, 4:59am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I think you made the ships even more dark then before Your loosing the details. I like the overall effect and it has the right feel. Coloration isn't your weakness or your modeling skills. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 9, 2007, 8:10am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Nice work Wizard. My eye is still drawn to the 1st pic, with a tad lightening of the upper left ship. I feel the addition of more craft takes away the feel of vastness, by making the eye look at more 'stuff'. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 9, 2007, 2:25pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi W!ZARD,
I really love this scene. As in all your works it genuinely engages the viewer as an integral part of the scene itself. Masterful.
There's just one small thing that might be nice to introduce in it I think, faint colored lamplights from within the ships to gently emphasize the windows when seen from afar. Just a thought, looks excellent just the way it is though, very inspiring.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 9, 2007, 7:03pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thank you all for the suggestions.
There seems to be some concensus on the darkness issue so I'll adjust that - I'll try bumping up the IBL intensity a little.
I like Marks suggestion about lights - in fact the smaller ships all have lanterns at the stern that are currently not lit up. I'll look into that approach too.
Kena likes the extra ships, dragoneye doesn't - so I may just remove 1 or 2 of them.
Watch this space....:D |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 10, 2007, 1:45am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Woo Hoo! That slowed the render down! Anyway I think I'm getting closer now - I've lit the stern lanterns and also put lights in the cabins. I may post process some glow around the lights but first I wanted to see what people thought of the tweaks.
So, ..er... what do you think of the tweaks? |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 10, 2007, 1:51am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Personally I think I prefer the scene with just the three ships. The composition looks a little cluttered to my eyes. The lanterns are a nice touch and really add something to the scene. Brightness still looks fine to me.
As for the bad guys... I was thinking more of just a few silhouettes in the distance so no vast modeling project is needed. You'd probably get away with the existing ships turned 180o.
Great stuff W!Z |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 10, 2007, 3:39am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks Steve - there was a pleasing simplicity about the 3 ship version. I'm still not sure I've finalised it yet so I may still further reduce the number of airships.
Just to really confuse things here's a variation on the theme... |
Post by rrf // Jun 10, 2007, 5:21am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I agree with MadMouse about the composition - I like the first one better. The last one may have a better feeling of movement if it was 'flopped' - (the 'compositional rule-of-thumb' thing....us 'westerners' reading from left to right...things pointing left tend to stop movement, and things pointing right seem to enhance the 'feeling' of movement in 2d pieces)
Although - it may be reversed for people down under? ;)
hope this helps,
rf |
Post by noko // Jun 10, 2007, 5:36am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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she's a beauty, love to see many different angles, a few onboard looking around maybe. Out the window :) ? |
Post by kena // Jun 10, 2007, 5:52am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I defiantly like the oval portholes best. For the stern lanterns, they look like arc lights in shades. Perhaps put just a touch of Orange or blue to indicate a flame of some type. And If you post-process a glow, don't make it too much. :D |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 10, 2007, 6:19am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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The last one may have a better feeling of movement if it was 'flopped' - (the 'compositional rule-of-thumb' thing....us 'westerners' reading from left to right...things pointing left tend to stop movement, and things pointing right seem to enhance the 'feeling' of movement in 2d pieces)
Although - it may be reversed for people down under? ;)
hope this helps,
rf
Thanks rrf - (I keep wanting to call you "Arf" - :D ). A most excellent point about the direction of movement - in the Lord of the Rings films Peter Jackson shot the action so that all the main movement was from left to right for the same reason. I did think about this myself but deliberately selected the right to left orientation to 'slow' down the movement - these airships are meant to be slow and clumsy in the air. I felt the awkwardness of the direction actually helped in this case.:D
BTW the thing about the water downunder going down the plug hole in the opposite direction is apparently a fallacy - sad really, I always thought the world would be a slightly better place it it was true <shrug>.
@noko - thanks for those suggestions but I'm not sure my modeling would stand up if I got too much closer :o lol.
@kena - thanks for the remarks about the lights - the lights themselves are very yellow but the lightshades may be too bright. Any post processed glow would apply subtley on the farthest lights only. |
Post by jayr // Jun 10, 2007, 12:29pm
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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I love how complex you've made the rigging, it looks more realistic that way. All that time modeling gallions is paying off.
BTW the thing about the water downunder going down the plug hole in the opposite direction is apparently a fallacy - sad really, I always thought the world would be a slightly better place it it was true <shrug>.
Apparently, it has more to do with the sape of your sink or bath! |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 10, 2007, 1:57pm
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Tweaks look good Wizard!
I too liked the original with only 3 ships, it gave a feeling of vast spaces to be explored.
The lights on the decks was a good idea, it helps illuminate more of your masterful modeling skills. :D |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 11, 2007, 2:15am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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the thing about the water downunder going down the plug hole in the opposite direction is apparently a fallacy... the world would be a slightly better place it it was true
The world is instantly a better place I've seen footage of the bowl at the Equator (no swirling) and in the Southern hemisphere (opposite) and it's true about the swirling being driven by the Coriolis effect plus a hint of chaos
Open University physics course a few years back. No not Mythbusters this was serious :)
Clouds don't move they are untethered but the ground does below. So it might have been the camera running in reverse :)
Very nice airships scene, expecting Biggles in his Camel to show up any minute
how complex you've made the rigging
Yes the whole scene is very liquid and painterly
Peter |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 11, 2007, 6:57am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Only 3 ships? :( . I don't know if I could do it - it would be like me posting a post with only three lines of type! :) . I'm a sucker for lots of detail.
@ Peter - I hope you didn't pay too much for that open university physics course - or get a job designing nuclear reactors :D . Jayr has got it right I'm afraid - the shape of the container, sink, bath, what-have-you and the chaotics of Brownian motion or other current vectors in the container determine the direction of rotation. Coriolis force at the scale of your bathtub is too weak to be a determining factor - sad but apparently true.
@ Forcemaster 2k - Yay! The 'force' is with me! Just 3 ships? Mad Mouse wants me to put in a whole fleet of baddies - decisions decisions.....
Thanks for the input friends. My tS PC is currently rendering MojoWorlds so it may be a while before I get back to this project. I'm still not sure which way to go but I appreciate the helpful remarks so far. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 16, 2007, 3:36am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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My apologies W!ZARD,
I've had my head so utterly buried in Scripting over the last couple of days I completely forgot to check back on this thread to see what you've done! Now that I have though I must say that your addition of the lamplights in the previous scene was really well done... subtle where it needed to be and warm where it needed greater emphasis, very nice style.
I'm kind of suprised to see you going to a different viewpoint angle with less ships though unless this later image is a companion to the first, I think the first one was spot on perfect in it's last incarnation here... (gotta be a gallery winner!)
Great work, a pleasure to observe.
- 3dvisuals dude |
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