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Ts6.6 Scenes Vs Ts7.11 Scenes = Win Ts6.6
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Ts6.6 Scenes Vs Ts7.11 Scenes = Win Ts6.6 // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by prodigy // Sep 14, 2006, 6:49am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Hi all. well as i mentioned.. i work on a BIG BIG project with ts7.11 at first time... And i have some problems..
I like to tell my experience here.. maybe somebody have the same problem and i help to solve someones..
Well the problem with glue its a fact.. I have loooots problems with glue..
2) when the project became BIG! (Big = FULL apartment with objects)
I close, the ts to work to the next day.. and when i gonna reopen.. the TS locks.. wtf.... Truespace locks on the start, and i cant get up again...
I open with TS6.6 and it works fine.. I think.. the TS7 have some problem and crash any time..
Looking the problem.. i understand the problem, why TS7 crash..
The problem its TS scenes...
The scene what im working have lot of textures and objects.. and have a filezise 80mb.. (THE SCENE without images)
I Think.. WOW.. 80mb.. its tooooo big..
I open the scene with ts6.6 and i save the same scene and now the filesize became to 14mb.
?????????????????????????
Youp, now i understand why ts7 locks.. ts try to load a 80mb scene and it stackup.. i wait about 30 minutes on a 3ghz pentium 4 and nothing happend..
think, maybe ts7 try to load at the start the scene and why it locks like the tima when i need to load on ts7..
Doesnt work start ts + control.. and reset...
If you delete a file on ts path (i dont remeber now but today im gonna post) you can restart all the library.. but when you get up the ts7 you must close because you cant load any library.. it make crash again...
Well.. Try this.. create a CUBE ... or some objects.. and save the secene... you get aprox 900k scene.. but if you save for ts6.6 version.. you get a 200k filesize.. WHy??? i don tknow.. but that make problems on large scenes..
And now.. i save the scenes on ts6.6 version.. and you get Fastest loads.. and no problems with lost materials or objects with vray .. allworks ok.. only you must set the vray settings again...
I think the problem its the bridge.. because if you set bridge off you can load the scene faster.. but to render with vray, the render times go to hell.. to render with vray its good set the bridge on.. but have problems to load the scene...
CARFULL! IF YOU CLOSE the TS7 with exit.. you get again the problem to load... you need kill the ts process to close TS...
Well dudes.. i coment this because i have problems and i found how solve..
I hope TS scenes became more stables..
and i hope this help somebody...
Cheers |
Post by splinters // Sep 14, 2006, 7:55am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Vray requires the player side so that requires that the Bridge is turned on When you save a scene it saves Model and PLayer data, textures etc. that is why it is bigger but have you noticed that with a RsScn file you never need worry about missing textures like in 6.6 if you send someone the file?
It's a trade-off but the delay is loading a large scene into both player and model side when bridge is turned on or Auto.
If you do not use player side (or Vray) then turn bridge off and save files as .scn format for less problems.
Oh, the close tS with the X problem is a windows glitch and well documented.
Personally, I have a shortcut (CTRL+SHIFT+S) assigned to the 'shut down tS' icon. No problems anymore...:o
P.S By Windows glitch I mean that we are conditioned to close down programs like that (thanks Bill) but tS is multiple windows in a layout so you are only closing one of those windows-that is the problem as windows remembers that next time it starts up. |
Post by chrisj // Sep 14, 2006, 8:22am
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chrisj
Total Posts: 239
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I have a lot of niggling problems with 7.11. Mainly these will be down to the bridge I suppose, and some problems with my nvidia GTX5900 but they prevent me getting the best use out of the software. I find problems with glued objects becoming invisible, and I frequently find I have to unglue all sorts of detailed parts prior to rendering. Sometimes objects visible in modeller will not render, and sometimes they are invisible in the modeller and player too, apart from the bounding box, which can be like searching for a needle in a haystack. As I've said in other threads, I'm still using my old PC and 6.6 for a lot of my modelling, and transferring across for composition and rendering. I don't have a lot of use for the player, as of yet.
Chris |
Post by splinters // Sep 14, 2006, 8:36am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Remember also that objects glued in previous versions of tS should be broken down and reglued in tS7 as glue as sibling (think that's the one) is no longer in tS. You would not believe the trouble I had with this in early testing. Old hierarchies just don't translate well sometimes. Even better is to use new encapsulate function in tS7. |
Post by remnar // Sep 15, 2006, 3:48am
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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Well the problems with ts7 are comming over from ts6.6. Obviously they built ts7 ontop of 6.6. Bad move. I think it should have been redesigned fixing the bad things that are in 6.6. One of those bad things is memory and glued objects. Lets say you have 500 objects all cubes in your scene. When you hit the render button, it renders just fine. No waiting for memory allocation. However if these objects were grouped, your memory has now doubled and pre-render time has in creased. It's fine if they used the 6.6 modeler but it had bugs and unless they were addressed, I dont see how ts7 has improved except in the more professional looking buttons and script features. I also want to point out that I dont have ts7, but rather I have watched video tutorials and read about how it's related to 6.6. |
Post by Bobbins // Sep 15, 2006, 4:02am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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Hmm, tS7 isn't built on top of tS6 - the tS7 architecture is completely independant and seperate. That's why the Bridge is required to translate the 'old' tS6 architecture Model view and the 'new' tS7 architecture Player view. It has been done this way to maintain backwards compatibility with previous objects, scenes and textures although the translation process through the Bridge isn't an exact science.
tS7 isn't just about fixing the bad things in tS6. It is about a complete rewrite of every tool from the ground up improving things along the way. Once that process is complete the link with tS6 can be severed completely. |
Post by Cayenne // Sep 15, 2006, 4:07am
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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Bobbins, beat me to my post , all I could add is to this is that tS7 is currently acting like a host to 6.6 , and 6.6 is in effect acting like a plugin to the new architecture. |
Post by splinters // Sep 15, 2006, 4:55am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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And I will add that there is little point spending time fixing those 6.6 bugs as they will eventually be phased out...sooner rather than later hopefully. |
Post by prodigy // Sep 15, 2006, 9:45am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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The problem with "Truespace 6.6 plugin " on Truespace 7 its you still need Truespace 6 to model and render.. Im very worry about upgrade to Ts7.5 because.. i spend 500 $ about 3 months i dont remember and now a new "upgrade" about 50$ and i dont know if the problems be fixed on TS7.x
I need a stable plataform to work and this "transition" its killing me..
The bridge... the vray plugin... the ts6.6 bugs...+ bugs on Ts7.11...
TS player its very preaty.. but i dont work with player renders...
And about TS7 requirements... i still think ts7 kill Tsnet.. because now need brand new powerfull computers.. On ts6.6 you can use any computer " p3, 500mhz." for example..
Because that i think the new face of player vision its more for gamespace, game developers need work with DX9 shaders and player its exelent because its like a game preview.. ..but I dont.. I need Vray render engine work stable with mapping shader and the vray light works properly.. I dont care if the new solid view its like the player look.. its better i know.. but i still thinking : im a house designer.. and i work with HEAVY scenes.. that consume lot of ram.. and if now for have a preaty look consume more ram and more grafic card memory.. TS7 convert on a heavy turtle trying to run a decathlon..
This is my fight with the new face of Truespace7... |
Post by Alien // Sep 15, 2006, 11:09am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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The problem with "Truespace 6.6 plugin " on Truespace 7 its you still need Truespace 6 to model and render.. Im very worry about upgrade to Ts7.5 because.. i spend 500 $ about 3 months i dont remember and now a new "upgrade" about 50$ and i dont know if the problems be fixed on TS7.x
I need a stable plataform to work and this "transition" its killing me..
The bridge... the vray plugin... the ts6.6 bugs...+ bugs on Ts7.11...
TS player its very preaty.. but i dont work with player renders...
You don't have to, Player render is just an extra option you can use if you wanted to, just like V-ray [except player renderer comes with tS, & V-ray you pay extra for].
And about TS7 requirements... i still think ts7 kill Tsnet.. because now need brand new powerfull computers.. On ts6.6 you can use any computer " p3, 500mhz." for example..
I wouldn't use a P3/500 for tS at all. You don't necessarily need a brand new system to use as tSNet nodes for tS7 though. My system is getting a bid old, but it does ok in tS7 [Athlon XP3200+ (2.2Ghz), 2GB RAM, Radeon X800 GTO 256MB]. You wouldn't even need as good a graphics card for a tSNet node, & you might be able to get away with 1GB RAM for the nodes unless you had lots of big textures [like MadMouse did with his warehouse mech].
Because that i think the new face of player vision its more for gamespace, game developers need work with DX9 shaders and player its exelent because its like a game preview..
No. That stuff [DX9 shaders, etc] may be for the game developers, but the Player [Roman: I bet you wish you'd called it something else now, eh? ;)] will replace Modeler once all the tools for the Player [really bad choice of name, especially because of how it makes people think about the Modeler's replacement] have been created for it.
When all the tools for the Player have been implemented, you won't need the bridge on unless you want to use an old Plugin in the Modeler. That'll mean lower memory useage [tS7 + bridge/Modeler = 2 x tS memory useage], & more stability.
I need Vray render engine work stable with mapping shader and the vray light works properly.. I dont care if the new solid view its like the player look.. its better i know.. but i still thinking : im a house designer.. and i work with HEAVY scenes.. that consume lot of ram.. and if now for have a preaty look consume more ram and more grafic card memory.. TS7 convert on a heavy turtle trying to run a decathlon..
This is my fight with the new face of Truespace7...
The Player actually handles big scenes better/faster than the Modeler. However, having the bridge & Modeler running at the same time means an extra strain on the system, so the speed advantage of the Player is less obvious. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 15, 2006, 1:37pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I think Prodigy is making some very good points. Why would he want to upgrade now? His hardware would need upgrading, the interface has yet to be cleaned up, there are tons of missing features missing on the Player side (eye candy right now), V-Ray isn't on that side yet, and as of today he couldn't use it for business. What would he gain that he doesn't have now?
In the future all this will change but not now.
He is wrong when he states it is slower, 7.11 handles very large objects with ease. Alien is right when he says that will change when they blow-up the bridge.
Right now Player feels like your working with clay. Sometimes that is how I like to model but when I don't Modeler is where I'm found. |
Post by Cayenne // Sep 15, 2006, 9:00pm
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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If you do not need to take advantage of the player rendering features at this moment in time, you can change the hardware settings to one of the dx7 settings.
The hardware settings button is available from the title bar of the player window next to the view setting button.
This will produce a noticable speed up in the player during navigation for modeling purposes. |
Post by Bobbins // Sep 15, 2006, 9:23pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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V-Ray isn't on that side yet.
I have to pick up on that comment - you might not realise it but VRay is only on the Player side. Sure, the icon that starts a render going is accessed from the Model view but what VRay actually renders is exactly what you see in the Player only.
I understand why people are currently saying that the Player is just eye candy and will only ever be of use to gamers and the like but once more/all tools are ported over to the Player side then they will have to reconsider their view. At that point you can ditch the model view, sever the Bridge and be free of the old architecture. The real speed of the new architecture will then be obvious because at present it is the baggage of having the old architecture running simultaneously that hogs a lot of resources and holds things back. Unfortunately it is necessary to have both architectures at the moment, though. |
Post by GraySho // Sep 15, 2006, 11:32pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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The Player actually handles big scenes better/faster than the Modeler. However, having the bridge & Modeler running at the same time means an extra strain on the system, so the speed advantage of the Player is less obvious.
I understand the point that people try to make, when saying that player is faster, but what benefit do we have, when it is necessary to switch back and forth and keep the bridge on for VRAY (for those who have it). I fully understand that people get annoyed. Especially those who have to use it for their business, they can't wait months or years for a better solution. I really hope that this hybrid turns into a stable platform soon, that feels like it's part of one world and has the same (or better) workflow than ts6.6.
Edit: On a sidenote, I have a few models well over 200k polygons, handling these models with bridge turned on is like watching a slideshow. Don't tell me to turn off the bridge, because I'd rather use tS6.6 then.
Just had to get that out. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 16, 2006, 1:07am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Bobbins,
"I have to pick up on that comment - you might not realise it but VRay is only on the Player side. Sure, the icon that starts a render going is accessed from the Model view but what VRay actually renders is exactly what you see in the Player only."
Your right, what I meant is that you have to go into Modeler to start a V-Ray render. Is that correct? So Modeler is still needed to use V-Ray. As I understand it, the button will be moved to player in the next release. |
Post by parva // Sep 16, 2006, 7:10am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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agree with GraySho.
I just hope that the "final" trueSpace will also get a faster response. The Player may be get fast response with a larger polycount as older tS but the GUI doesn't.
Create a cube and enter PE mode or just hit several buttons fast in tS6 - it's far more faster as in current tS7!
That's a problem I bother more with because I don't get a smooth working feeling with the program.
Even tS6 became in comparison to other programs very glutinous but if a newer program can not turn this?... Oh dear. |
Post by prodigy // Sep 17, 2006, 6:29pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Hi people.. i think the new player stuffs are preaty good, but at this moment are more visual than functional..
Everybody know, you see problems on sistems when you work lot of time on it. and i found strange points on UI for example.. TS7 its like 2 TOTALY DIFERENT SOFTWARES.. Work diferent, have 2 UI totaly diferents.. the keys not work from one to the other.. the mouse movements, same problem.. That complicate unesesarely the work..
I dont like came here to say only bad things of ts7.. Have lot of other good things... As usually, only the bad things be posted... because sometimes this opninions make a better software.. Bad things make us better always.. (if we adapt to changes)
About the TS7.5 i dont know what im gonna do.. Maybe pay for continue upgraded at caligari eyes.. but i dont know what i pay.. and i dont know if that make better my work, or still use Ts6.6 and render on ts7 for vray..
I think caligari team, must say.. dudes, we are on this way... a clear view at the horizont... (a 360° panoramic view if is posible jejeje)
Next upgrade have bla bla bla bla...
We gonna fix bla bla bla bla bla..
The bridge continue on all TS7.x
things like this...because i feel missing on space, realy..
Well stop with the 8000 pages book.. Sorry for my english, i hope dont make to much spelling errors.
Sayonara... :D |
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