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Human Rig Project
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Human Rig Project // Work in Progress
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 25, 2007, 12:45am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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I built a rig for my character and would like to share it with the community. It is set up to be controlled through ik handles. It is a full biped with fingers, eyes, and jaw bones.
It works pretty good but there are some issues. You have to move around the arm control some to get the elbow to bend. I don't know what is restricting it from just bending when you move the arm in. It seems you have to find the right angle. Also, the ik handles do not stay aligned to the bone when you move them. This is a problem for the wrist twist handle. I have it set to rotate local z which is fine in default pose. But when you move the arm the handle changes so you have to set it to a different rotation when you want to twist the wrist. Kind of a pain, they need to fix that. Also I can not get the eyes to rotate together so you have to do them each manually. I tried encapsulating them but it didnt work. I also tried making a bone connecting the two end joints of the eyes to apply a ik handle, but it wouldn't let me make a connector bone. The ideal way would be if they could share an ik handle, but i cant find a way, maybe someone good with the link editor could figure it out.
If anyone wants to add to this rig please post your results here. Then we can all have a good rig to work with. If anyone knows fixes for the things above it would be great. I'm gonna examine mr bones hand and try my hand at some poses too. Another cool thing would be a face rig attached. If anyone knows how to make a sub skeleton let me know and I will make one.
Edit: scroll down thread for updated rig. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 25, 2007, 2:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hey, nice one Mr Frog! I've grabbed your skele to play with at some future date but I'm currently working on projects that don't require skele's.. I'll let you know how I get on with it.... eventually!
Thanks for sharing though. |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 25, 2007, 6:01am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Update.
Added a root control to move the whole skeleton. |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 25, 2007, 12:31pm
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Thx 3Dfrog! Downloaded and I'll check it out later tonight and let you know how it works out. :)
I've yet to start tackling doing my own IK handles yet, something I'm itching to start doing!
Edit* Just messed around with your rig 3Dfrog, and Wow! While it does seem to have some issues as you pointed out...I believe this is the best humanoid rig I've seen here! I really like to build my skeletons inside a mesh, but if nothing else, I'll definitely learn a lot looking at your rig...the control lock for moving the skeleton as a whole is great, each of the IK objects that shipped with TS should have one of those! |
Post by tomasb // Jun 25, 2007, 11:01pm
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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Also, the ik handles do not stay aligned to the bone when you move them. This is a problem for the wrist twist handle. I have it set to rotate local z which is fine in default pose. But when you move the arm the handle changes so you have to set it to a different rotation when you want to twist the wrist. Kind of a pain, they need to fix that.
There is Align handle with bone tool for this. It binds handle rotation with bone. |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 26, 2007, 5:50am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Nice one tom! How'd I miss that. That really improves the rig. Thanks man.
Attached is the updated rig. |
Post by Ambrose // Jun 26, 2007, 6:56am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Hi 3DFrog
Nice one here and I guess everyone would like just a short tutorial if possible outlining the steps even if one can see your rig that would be appreciated by us all - I think ;)
Keep up the good work!
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 26, 2007, 7:39am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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I have camtasia so can make a video tutorial. I would like to work out some of the problems with it first though. Working on it. |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 26, 2007, 10:59am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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A tutorial of any kind if you have the time would be fantastic! Inspired by your work I started messing with the IK handles and the one thing that mystifies me is how you associate certain handles to operate specific locks??
And I just know this is where someone is going to step in and say those two blasphemous words "LINK EDITOR" :rolleyes: |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 26, 2007, 11:03am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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no link editor needed. It is simple. just go to add ik handle tool, click your ik handle, then click the lock you want to activate when you use the handle and it will turn green. Then it is associated with the handle. |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 27, 2007, 10:39am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Thx 3Dfrog!
I wish the manual could be that concise and easy to understand:rolleyes: |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 27, 2007, 12:19pm
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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There is an issue with attaching this skeleton to the skin. I suspect it has something to do with using the limb library, they are investigating now but I would recommend against starting your skeletons with the limb library for now. Stay tuned for updates. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 28, 2007, 5:53am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi 3dfrog,
While you're on hold awaiting a resolution on that I was just wondering...
Are you planning to rig that cool Humanized-Frog Skeleton with the sword and shield that you have on your website?
That would be awesome.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 28, 2007, 8:19am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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The frog bone warrior on my cafepress store is a painting. I did build him in animation master at one point but never did anything with him. I may be tempted to resurrect him in truespace if I ever find the time. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 28, 2007, 1:53pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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The frog bone warrior on my cafepress store is a painting. I did build him in animation master at one point but never did anything with him. I may be tempted to resurrect him in truespace if I ever find the time.
Cool!
You should! Make a few in fact... you could recreate that scene from the old cult movie "Jason and the Argonauts" with that skeleton army... in a froglodite kinda way of course! ;)
Seriously, I think it would be great.
Your CafePress store reminded me that I aught to be doing something like that myself one of these years too. I must have 3000 renders I've made over the years and tucked away here and there on several computers and drives which should be earning me a few bucks once in a while! Great idea.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 3, 2007, 12:44am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Here is an update to the skeleton. This one can attach to skin just fine. I made it from scratch without the limb library. It is mostly the same. I put a little rotation capability in some of the joints so there is a little smoother bends in the shoulder and elbow.
Enjoy. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 3, 2007, 4:18am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Here is an update to the skeleton. This one can attach to skin just fine. I made it from scratch without the limb library. It is mostly the same. I put a little rotation capability in some of the joints so there is a little smoother bends in the shoulder and elbow.
Enjoy.
Thanks! Now if I can just allocate the time to play with it I'll be very happy! :D
So many new things - so few hours in a day!
I'll MAKE the time for this one though pretty soon.:cool:
Come join us in the Garage section here in the "Rube Goldberg Scenario" thread when you have a chance too, I think you'd enjoy it a lot! :)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 7, 2007, 7:23am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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There are a few issues I had while using this rig on my character. First there was an issue with the fingers. The fingers are set to be locked on my ik handles, and they stay in position while posing and on keyframes. But inbetween keyframes they move and stretch. This is not caused by the limb library issue because this one was built from scratch. Trying to figure this one out. The folks at caligari are looking at it.
Another issue was with the head. The bottom teeth of my character are connected to the jaw bone using attach object to bone and the hair object of my character is attached to the head bone the same way. But when you keyframe the character and move the time scrubber the bottom teeth and hair object jump out of the head. You can replace the teeth and keyframe them at zero to get around this, but the hair object scales and rotates and the hair gets messed up so you can't fix it.
You can see the hair problem if you test it in this file:
http://www.3dfrog.com/wips/hairproblem.RsScn
The teeth problem doesnt happen in this version of the file for some reason.
These have been reported to caligari.
If you wanna try out the skeleton and figure you can just delete the hair object and use it bald. You can see how the locks and everything work on here if you wanna examine it but because the finger problem I would not recommend attaching it to your figures or doing any kind of involved animation with it. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 8, 2007, 11:27pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hmmn. Interesting! (Raises one eyebrow a La Spock).
Whilst on the one hand hand I'm sorry to read you have been having problems like this with the new bones on the other hand I'm sort of pleased as these are exactly the same sorts of issues I was having with my gnome character. On the gripping hand (obscure sci fi reference ;) )I am wondering what this means in the long run.
The new bones in my experience are simply wonderful when building the skele and setting joint limits - these tasks can be performed with an effective economy that is nothing short of delightful.
Sadly setting the vertex associations - whilst still quite workable and user friendly - do not operate with quite the same functional ease.
Finally posing my figure - and note this was not an attempt to animate just an attempt to create a believable static pose - proved frustratingly difficult thanks to issues such as Mr Frog describes - teeth and hair mostly plus issues with locks and handles.
I'm happy to own that I'm a relative noob with bones. These new bones are also miles better than the old tS bones without doubt. However I find it both disappointing and frustrating that these latter aspects of bones are not as lovely to use as the earlier aspects - the skele construction and so on.
I was able to finally after more than a week of extended effort, get my gnome to sit down by extracting the existing skeleton from Tank Girl and adding to that.
I have a newish multicore PC with 1 gig of ram which I built with tS usage in mind so I'm reluctant to consider that it is a hardware issue. I had anticipated bones that would work better that the old ones and this is what I got - but it still feels that the ease of use that characterises the skele construction process gets progressively more unweildy as one progress particularly when dealing with more complex figures than the toy-like Tank Girl or a handless hairless catsuit.
Clearly Caligari have put a HUGE amount of work and effort into the new bones and I thank and applaud them for this. I also look forward with anticipation to the time when the ease of use of the boning/animating systems is uniform from beginning to end.
Finally I must ask the question; am I asking to much of the bones system by trying to work with higher polycount figures and more complex skeletal structures? They seem to work appropriately with simple figures and single meshes.
Thanks to 3dfrog also for your continuing efforts in this matter. I look forward to your further experiments and experiences. |
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