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workspace configuration questions
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
workspace configuration questions // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Tiles // Sep 17, 2006, 9:50pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I have started to fiddle around with TS 7. One of the problems i am currently stuck with is to configurate the workspace to something useful. In TS 6.6 you had a configuration library where you were able to store your favourite settings. The place of the toolbars, minimized/ maximized, small windows, etc. .
Now in TS 7 when i switch to Full there is the configuration button missing. How do i store my configuration here? Because switching to Default kills the settings from Full. But here rests the Configuration Button ...
And in TS 6.6 you were also able to expand a whole toolbar to have a look at ALL buttons at this toolbar. How do i in TS7 ? The only one i currently found that is old style in this way is the Point Edit Tools. The other bars refuses to expand this way. Was a somehow useful feature in 6.6 when you were in search for a specific button that you rarely use, or in need of three or four tools from the same bar at the same time.
And who has made this little toolbar with the most important buttons at it so small? It's a workflow killer. You always need to have a very close look not to open the global panel or to render instead to switch view like you want ... |
Post by stan // Sep 18, 2006, 4:09am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Tiles,
you can replace the small toolbars ..you will find the replacements in the garage section of the forum..
you can only expand old toolbars ..the edit toolbar in model is an old toolbar..we were told that will change after a poll was done..hopefully by ts7.5 we will have expanding toolbars back for every toolbar..:D
you can save configurations in full but you don't use the old ts6.6 style panel..[it shouldn't even be present]..on player side you should find the layout library button in the toolbar shown in pic
hopefully they will simplify saving layouts because it won't completely save your layout if you have customized toolbars unless you create a new default.ctx by using "save state" .. |
Post by Tiles // Sep 18, 2006, 7:02am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Have found the thread in the replacement section and will give it a go. Thank you :)
First wow: So this feature of expanding toolbars is really lost in 7.1? And i haven't overlooked it? Amazing.
Second wow: Err, do i understand correct that i cannot save configuration on model side full view? But that's essential! Because this makes the Full view worthless for modeler. I don't have the time to resetup a useful interface every time i start trueSpace. And no way to work at the native small window in Default view with all its disturbing stuff around. Workspace needs SPACE to work in.
Player is also no substitute, because Player misses this much features at the moment that it is nearly worthless to model with.
Alright, this means that i will stop playing around with TS 7.1 for now and went back to TS 6.6. Will give it a second look when TS 7.5 is around.
Anyway, thanks for your help :) |
Post by stan // Sep 18, 2006, 8:23am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Err, do i understand correct that i cannot save configuration on model side full view?
Tiles, open the layout library in player then switch to model..save configuration..I save on both sides to get the full configuration as I want it..because the model side + player side = the Full layout config ..the side you save last is the one you will open to when loading your layout..
Gord :cool: |
Post by Tiles // Sep 18, 2006, 9:05pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah, so i misunderstood it, and there is a way to save the layout? Phew :)
Let's have a look if i am able to. Previous experiments weren't this sucessful. I always found myself back to default, with closed navigation bar at the top when i switched to Modeler Full ... |
Post by Tiles // Sep 18, 2006, 9:21pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah, now i got it to work. Now i was able to restore the layout with navigation bar opened at the bottom. Thanks :)
Still, trouble remains. Switching to default or Player and back to Modeler Full kills the layout again. So first thing starting TS 7 is always to go to Player, open Library, load settings, and then to Modeler Full. Same when you switch away from Modeler Full. Annoying. Especially because i found myself to Library Window disappear to Background before i was able to click at the Layout. It refused to stay on top. You need a quick hand here ... :/ |
Post by stan // Sep 19, 2006, 3:55am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Tiles, read these threads..they may help
nailing toolbars
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=226
customizing layouts
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=324 |
Post by Tiles // Sep 19, 2006, 7:00am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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And again a big thanks for your help :)
Still, i give up. Tried the tips in the links you provided there. Problem remains. No way to customize the Full Modeler view. I always find myself in front to default layout when i reopen TS 7.1 and enter the Full Modeler. Seems that i am too dumb for 7.1 :/
I never had a this massive battle with any other software just to customize it. I better wait for 7.5 before i will look at it again. |
Post by Alien // Sep 19, 2006, 1:34pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Tiles: have you tried inserting it to the new library, then loading the 1 you just saved before restarting tS? |
Post by GraySho // Sep 20, 2006, 6:56am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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My point is, it shouldn't be necessary to read through 10 threads and 10 pages of the manual to get custumization to work. If it is so, the UI and handling of it has failed. I hope the devs pay attention to that, because it will distract new users from using trueSpace 7 (me as well) who expect a working UI. As the name says, it's the interface between User and the software, thus essential for efficient work.
Besides, it seems to become a fashion to get used to workarounds here, that's not something I'm really happy about. |
Post by Tiles // Sep 20, 2006, 7:52am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I finally have solved it. Wow, what a battle. Close to scare me away from TS 7 ...
The above described way was correct. Go to Player, choose library, go to Modeler, setup your workspace, and save it into library.
Excluding a little detail. The Full Button at the top is a layout and not a maximize button as i thought. And the second thing i haven't known is that the new layout should appear as a button in the top bar so that you can choose it. And i stumbled across just by pure luck.
Because when you work with a smaller resolution like i do it simply doesn't appear. And so i had to switch to Player first, choose my layout, switch to modeler, and load layout. It's about this little ( wow, how can one see this with even bigger resolution? ) cornerbutton at the end of the bar, which shows you the rest of the missing layout buttons when you click it:
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/shotts7.jpg
And thanks to a friend i finally know how to arrange this buttons there so that i don't have to click at this small button.
Conclusion: making a new layout in TS 7 is everything but intuitive. You are lost without help here. And even then it's a challenge. I still don't know how to replace the small toolbar. Have downloaded bigtopbarloader.RsObj, but no clue how to integrate it. And to be honest, i lost patience for now. I want to work with a software. And not battle with it. |
Post by stan // Sep 20, 2006, 8:44am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Tiles, glad you figured out most of it..:) sorry I didn't mention anything about the tabs and re-arranging your layout library to change the tab order....:p ..the large toolbar is a pain to get working..in ts7 it went in easier.. |
Post by Alien // Sep 20, 2006, 8:49am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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It's shame layouts aren't stored in some form of "human readable" format, e.g. XML, as that would make customising them simpler. |
Post by splinters // Sep 20, 2006, 10:02am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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the large toolbar is a pain to get working..in ts7 it went in easier..
Are we not still on tS7?
Anyway it is very easy. Import the toptoolbar object below into your objects library in the stack. In default layout go to LE then find and expand Toobar Prototype Encapsulator.
Inside you will find tStoptoolbar delete it.
Drag the toolbar object you downloaded from your library into the LE (it has a graphic called no preview).
Now finally, go to the toolbar icon on the left side of the screen and choose view aspect bar...VOILA...30 second job at worst.
hope this is better...this is the original toolbar as I made it with no modifications at all. |
Post by stan // Sep 20, 2006, 10:27am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Are we not still on tS7?
we are now 7.11 it gave me trouble installing in this edition, maybe it was the 7.1..but it still works ..:D |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 20, 2006, 10:53am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Clintonman made a script to make it even easier here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=8437&postcount=12 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=8437&postcount=12) |
Post by Tiles // Sep 22, 2006, 2:56am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Thanks for all your help so far guys. Have played around with TS until i got the hang how to configure.
I feel that the Library from Player should be openable from the Modeler side. Lost some hours with configuring just to find out that the Configuration Library wasn`t open (Configuration Library in Modeler side is something different, and more or less useless now). Now guess what happened when i switched to Player to open this Library :P
Three TS 7 installs from scratch and several hours and days later i think i got the hang of it now. And again i have reinstalled TS 7 to start from scratch. Who knows what important buttons are lost with my tries. I really miss a restore to default Button.
Anyway. Time to have a look at the Toptoolbar thingie. But i am still confused about how to handle this. I fear it is also because english isn't my mothertounge. And i am too fresh with TS 7.
Import the toptoolbar object below into your objects library in the stack.
How? Where to? What is a stack?
In default layout go to LE then find and expand Toobar Prototype Encapsulator.
Urgh. Was able to find something called Toolbar Prototype Encapsulator by tinkering around and clicking various buttons in the grey space below. But i cannot reproduce it. When i start in Default Layout, the grey space below is blank. Nothing to read there. I hope i will find it again.
Inside you will find tStoptoolbar delete it.
Inside? There was no inside. Just this field where you can read Toolbar Prototype Encapsulator. Shall i delete this once i find it again?
I stop asking details here, and better ask if somebody could provide me some shots how to do. Could somebody be so kind? A Picture teaches you more than thousand words ^^ |
Post by splinters // Sep 22, 2006, 4:42am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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When I get home (give or take an hour or so) I will provide nice simple diagram of how to do it. If anyone is already doing that please say so and save me the effort of a double post. In the meantime-items in the LE (link Editor-grey area at bottom of default view) can be expanded by clicking on the Orange triangle in the right hand corner of the object within the LE. To collapse back down through the LE use the triangle in the top right corner of the LE itself. It is pretty simple and I almost never use the LE...some guys know it inside out!
Diagrams....I know... |
Post by splinters // Sep 22, 2006, 7:14am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Here we go;
First make sure you are in Default layout and first thing I do is delete the small toolbar by clicking on the X in the corner of it.
Now the stack is the right column in the UI. Click on the library icon as indicated in red the R-click and choose import object. Find the tStoptoobar object I posted earlier in this thread (make sure it is the one I posted).
Step 2 get the toolbar prototype encapsulator visible in the LE by clicking the yeloow triangle in LE. 3. Once you find it open that object, expand it by clicking on it's orange triangle.
Step 4.Exapnd the tsTopBar object then use the X to delete it.
See next thread for final part. |
Post by splinters // Sep 22, 2006, 7:21am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Step 5. Now the tStopBar is gone from the LE, drag the toptoolbar object from the library into the LE. It will appear in the LE named as tsTopBar.
Step 6. From the toolbar menu on the left of the screen-choose View Aspect Bar and voila...the big toolbar appears at the top of your screen.
NOW...save your layout.
Personally I also save the project and use the 'save current state' icon which is next to the shut down icon in bottom left of deafult UI.
There you go...easy, no?
You can happily navigate out of the LE now by clicking the orange button next to the 2D icon in the top right of the LE. If you switch layout you should retain the large toolbar but best to save other layouts just to be sure.
Hope this was of some help to you...:D |
Post by splinters // Sep 22, 2006, 7:25am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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And for those still struggling with terminology of the UI, here is a nice diagram;
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/attachment.php?attachmentid=646&stc=1&d=1141345544 |
Post by Tiles // Sep 22, 2006, 9:41pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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First, may thanks for your very detailed description :)
Still, Nope. Doesn't work. I tried it even with some help from Graysho. No success.
First i close this tiny toolbar.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step1.jpg
Then i import the toptoolbar.rsobj
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step2.jpg
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step3.jpg
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step4.jpg
On with LE, dive in, delete old insert new ...
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step5.jpg
I have searched very hard. No crossbutton to close it. I had to delete it with the DEL key. At least it was gone.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step6.jpg
... reopened the tiny bar by click at view aspect bar and find myself in front of the still very tiny old bar.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step7.jpg
Marvellous!
Note, i tried this several times. So the screenshot 6 shows the still imported new bar. I really wish there would be a restore to default button. Time to reinstall TS 7. Maybe uninstall, i don't know ...
Truespace 7 is THIS easy , LOL :banana: |
Post by splinters // Sep 22, 2006, 10:17pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Tiles, once you find the tsTopbar object-click on it to reveal two tabs. One is EXp, the other Default. Click on Default to expose the crossbutton. Then delete it. That is all I can see that you are doing wrong. |
Post by Tiles // Sep 23, 2006, 1:27am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah, there it is, the crossbutton. Thank you :D
Alright. So i did everything correct, and it refused to work. Thinking bout the trouble i had above with setting up my workspace i started to tinker around again.
And I found out the needed extra step you forgot to tell me ;) . And this little extra step at the end of the process makes it work, finally :P
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/step8.jpg
Reset ... :D
*Ironymode on* WEEEHAAA! Nearly a week and dozens of postings and chats just to find out how to configure TS 7 Workspace. That's what i call intuitive interface :banana: *Ironymode off*
Anyway. Many thanks to all you helpful souls. I finally solved it with your help :)
Still, i feel that it shouldn't be necessary to start a this massive thread and tinkering around for hours and days for such a simple thing. Both, the setup of the workspace and replacing the tiny toolbar by something better. This was a real frustrating experience for me.
Things are too complicated in TS 7.11. And everything but intuitive. That's what i have learned in the past days. Maybe the price for more flexibility. Question is if it isn't a bit too much the way it is at the moment. It's too scattered and mixed. Thinking about the needed Configuration library to store your toolbar settings that cannot be accessed from Modeler for example ...
I keep my fingers crossed that upcoming versions get some improvements in this area :) |
Post by splinters // Sep 23, 2006, 4:34am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I 'forgot' to mention that step Tiles, becasue I have never needed to do it.
Still, glad you got it working...and I am still expecting the tiny toolbar issue to be resolved in a future version...:rolleyes:
Now maybe if I had printed the visual instruction a week ago...:cool: |
Post by stan // Sep 23, 2006, 4:35am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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I really wish there would be a restore to default button.
Tiles, there is one..it hides under the "generate new space" icon
otherwise you should have done a "save state" saved the new .ctx some where safe ..then when you finished showing Tiles you go to explorer delete default.ctx and replace it with the one you saved prior to messing thing up..and rename it default.ctx ..restores everything..works great :) |
Post by splinters // Sep 23, 2006, 4:45am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Thanks for that Stan but that quote is not from me, I am pretty sure where most of the icons are in tS7...and why are you implying that I 'messed it up'?
"replace it with the one you saved prior to messing thing up"
Really, I am sure we all appreciate the custom stuff you have put out here but I posted this thing some time ago-nice and simple and since then users have adapted it to automatically install or whatever. I have never needed to do some of the steps you have because it has simply not caused me any problems the way I do it and originally did it, and I still do this with every new beta version released-quick 30 second job.
I simply need to use the RESET function on the big toolbar to reload the small one...:o |
Post by stan // Sep 23, 2006, 4:56am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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sorry Splinters..wasn't trying to imply anything..though that was your post with the instructions..it was Tiles in need of the reset button..:D changed the name.. |
Post by splinters // Sep 23, 2006, 4:59am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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No problem Stan, you confused me there for a minute...:D |
Post by stan // Sep 23, 2006, 5:12am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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the saving and making backups of default.ctx comes in handy..when things go wrong..I don't use reset to default content..I replace the .ctx then all my custom stuff gets restored exactly as it was at the time of the last backup.ctx....:D |
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