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is there a way to do Splatting with TS?
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is there a way to do Splatting with TS? // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Eagle // Sep 25, 2006, 4:29pm
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Do you Guys know if there is a way to do Splatting with TS?
This is what I'm doing,
http://www.eaglesoftworxstudio.com/WORK/Paint_hill.jpg
as you can see the textures really don't blend well. What I want to do is
this:
http://www.eaglesoftworxstudio.com/WORK/paint_hill2.jpg
I used T.Ed to make this terrain using the splatting technique. I believe
there should be a way to do this in TS and GS, I just don't know how.
thanks for your help~
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 25, 2006, 11:56pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Vickie,
Probably closest thing would be using soft selection: move in Z then scale in Z.
If we get custom brushes for soft selection in 7.5 that'd probably work pretty cool. :D
Looks like your splat effect is definitely something that could be implemented in a script using proximity between the target mesh and the tool mesh to push the verts in the target mesh. :shrug:
Looks like a cool way to model.
-Jack. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 26, 2006, 12:07am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Whupps missunderstood. Thought you were using a tool to press down the mesh in places.
To get textures to blend you need to alpha map them so that they are transparent in areas. TS7 comes with a script that does this based on the slope of the terrain, but the artist in me finds that a bit too mechanical a method. ;-)
I've been trying to figure this one out myself. Because if you have to create a huge alpha map for each type of material then that defeats the purpose of using smaller tileable textures... unless I'm missing something the only way to do this is to implement a custom shader using scripting? :confused:
-Jack. |
Post by tomasb // Sep 26, 2006, 12:09am
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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Hi Vickie,
Probably closest thing would be using soft selection: move in Z then scale in Z.
If we get custom brushes for soft selection in 7.5 that'd probably work pretty cool. :D
-Jack.
you can use your brushes in 7.0 soft selection... double click on profile image and you can load your own from library (or ctrl+double click to open load image dialog).. what is missing is a library with profiles; but it shoudln't be a problem to make one. Soft selection tool uses image alpha channel to control magnitude, RGB are used to display name in panel. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 26, 2006, 1:18am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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I think Eleblend from Kerlin Softworks might be of use to you. Unfortunately, as far as I know, Kerlin Softworks don't deal with these apps anymore and they were giving it away for free at the end so you might find it for download out on the net somewhere. Alternatively it's on the dePak: http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Plugins/Caligari/dePak/default.asp?Cate=Caligari |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 26, 2006, 2:27am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thanks Tom I'll have to try that out when I start doing landscapes.
@WickedWitch:
Thanks :D
Hmm... I have dePak so I'll have to check that out. I had it installed on my old computer but never used it... FilePlanet says they have it:
http://www.fileplanet.com/120312/120000/fileinfo/Untitled-Image-Utilities
Looks like it's the same kind of idea as the slope based texture blending in the Terrain System script object that comes with TS7. Won't know till I give it a spin though.
The real question for me (and probably Vickie too) though is going to come down to exportability. It's gotta render like that in the game engine. So probably gonna need custom DX shader scripts in the end anyway... I think texture baking is out of the question since the maps would have to be HUGE...:rolleyes: heh.
-Jack. |
Post by parva // Sep 26, 2006, 3:06am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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I'm not sure what is meant with splattening but I really like the terrain script from Michael Arrington. One of the first scripts, I guess during the pre alpha phase of tS7. Has great blending between textures. It's cool if you rise the z heigh of the hills the rocks comes out.
2477 |
Post by Steinie // Sep 26, 2006, 4:29am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I couldn't find his script Parva. Was it on this forum? |
Post by parva // Sep 26, 2006, 4:32am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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It's in the Objects Library /Script Objects - Terrain System |
Post by Eagle // Sep 26, 2006, 5:43am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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I think Eleblend from Kerlin Softworks might be of use to you. Unfortunately, as far as I know, Kerlin Softworks don't deal with these apps anymore and they were giving it away for free at the end so you might find it for download out on the net somewhere. Alternatively it's on the dePak: http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Plugins/Caligari/dePak/default.asp?Cate=Caligari
This is great! thanks for the link TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb (whats your name?) :p
I think this will do what I am wanting!
Thanks everyone for your input, this is very helpful~ :jumpy:
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by splinters // Sep 26, 2006, 5:46am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I think I have this on a DePak CD if you cannot find it as long as it is OK to pass on to you i.e. legal...;) |
Post by splinters // Sep 26, 2006, 5:48am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I couldn't find his script Parva. Was it on this forum?
Or in the contents section of the Caligari site;
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts7/Brochure/Newobjects.asp?Cate=Content&Subcate=Objects&SS=tS7 |
Post by hemulin // Sep 26, 2006, 6:11am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Or in the contents section of the Caligari site;
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts7/Brochure/Newobjects.asp?Cate=Content&Subcate=Objects&SS=tS7
Link appears to be dead. |
Post by stan // Sep 26, 2006, 6:15am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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I think Parva is using the terrain system from objects/script objects ..the material blender in it might only be for player realtime
Splinters, the free eleblend is a tad different that the depak version..it's part of a setup called "[untitled] image utilities" |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 26, 2006, 7:14am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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This is great! thanks for the link TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb (whats your name?)
You're welcome. (It's Kate btw)
If the package that Jack found for download also includes Ripple Rain then you'll probably have loads of fun with that too! It was/is a really cool bit of software. I ought to dig it out again and have another play! |
Post by Eagle // Sep 26, 2006, 7:36am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Hi Kate,
hey if you have it on your drive somewhere maybe you could e-mail it to me. That way I don't have to pay these guys to let me download it. :D Sounds like you have all the parts that go with it too.
always~
Vickie :) |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 26, 2006, 8:56am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I think I found...
Kerlin Softworks Untitled Image Utilities: (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/)
From Author's site: UIU is a suite of several applications for 3d artists and game developers. Primarily focused on the creation of environments and environmental effects, it's a good tool that's easy to learn.
UIU contains a few separate applications to make environmental maps and effects a snap, such as an updated Gradient Theif and an excellent planar mapping tool called Eleblend. Thanks to Kerry from Kerlin for allowing me to include this file with the tutorial!
Note: You will only need to install the patch if you receive the following error message when trying to run the Ripple Rain application:
Run-time error '339':
Component 'CCRPPRG.OCX' or one of its dependencies not correctly registered:a file is missing or invalid.
Download : http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/files/landscapes/setupuiu.exe (http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/files/landscapes/setupuiu.exe)
Download patch : http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/files/landscapes/UIUPatch1.zip (http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/files/landscapes/UIUPatch1.zip) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 26, 2006, 10:33am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yeah looks like the guy has a pretty extensive tutorial too:
http://www.firedragon.com/~flashfire/
-Jack. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Sep 26, 2006, 11:49am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Ripple Rain is a really cool app, but one thing to take notice of while you are experimenting is that it saves everything (ie 3000 bitmaps) .. so keep an eye on the 'save' folder!
This has been my experience anyway. |
Post by Eagle // Sep 26, 2006, 2:05pm
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Thanks TrueBlue!
Great Find~ this should help everyone trying to do splatting!
thank you, Thank you!
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by JimB // Oct 2, 2006, 7:11am
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JimB
Total Posts: 341
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Hey Vickie I'm glad you found a way to do splatting :)
Jim |
Post by Eagle // Oct 2, 2006, 9:30am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Thanks Jim, but its still not where it could be~
always~ |
Post by SteveBe // Oct 25, 2006, 11:48am
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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Parva is correct, the terrain texture works well for this.
http://members.shaw.ca/oceantrans/Splat/splat.gif
Here's a quick tutorial:
1. Create a single sided plane. I just used the SDS sphere, deleted all faces execpt the top, and removed all SDS.
2. Select the plane and subdivide to detail required, this will be your control mesh.
3. Select Add one layer from SS a few times to smooth.
4. Find the Terrain Object from script objects library and drag it into LE.
5. Click Terrain Object’s orange triangle, find Terrain material and Insert it into a material library.
6. You can delete the terrain object and drag and drop the terrain material from library to the plane.
7. Now you can start pulling/pushing verts. points etc. and sculpt you landscape in real time.
8. If you wish, you can export Bitmap A & B out of your plane object for easy access.
9. You can then change the 2 textures fo grass and rock if you wish.
10. It’s also possible to move between player and modeler, just remove SS layers before you switch.
11. Plane in modeler.
12. SDS applied in modeler. |
Post by Emmanuel // Oct 29, 2006, 5:11am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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I am also interested in blending textures to create landscapes.
I don't want procedural materials : I want to put a path here, a little grassy area there, a sand beach here, etc... not matter the elevation is.
Vickie, did you tried to use the old Material Rectange tool ?
We could have an interesting tool here. Map the entire land with a default tileable ground texture and add materials locally, using the Material Rectangle tool, with an alpha channel to blend with the default background material.
... Unfortunately, Player engine do not render textures made with the Material Rectangle tool :( |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 29, 2006, 8:42pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Problem is that the material rectangle isn't going to export to game engine either. I'm really amazed at the texture blending that Blizzard did with World of Warcraft. It's definitely not just height based. By overlaying several smaller tilable textures with various alpha it creates a lot of variety and they still have it specific in areas where they need it, like for the roads.
I'm still scratching my head on how to implement that. Maybe an array of alpha maps, and array of tileable textues, and and array that holds pointers to a linked list that lists the textures and corresponding alpha maps to use at each grid location? Then again I've noticed areas where the textures change direction, so....
-Jack. |
Post by GraySho // Oct 30, 2006, 7:56am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Most game engines allow to "spray" your textures on the landscape, no need to create the alpha maps by hand. Such a tool would be really nice to have. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 31, 2006, 5:00am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ah so basically it's a list of texture, position, and rotation then it's all blitted together on a directdraw surface which is handed to the 3D engine as a texture in realtime...
You'd still need a variety of alpha's to use as "Brushes" when apply the textues but that could be linked up easy enough in realtime during the "blitting" operation. Just include the index of the alpha map brush texture with the position and rotation info.
You'd still need a HUGE amound of RAM for the resulting texture unless they are only doing that for the local area and relying on slope based blending for distant areas.
Unless the new video cards can spot paint different size texture on texture or UV space in real time from just a list of coords instead of actual bitmaps...
-Jack. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 31, 2006, 5:12am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hmm.... actually a custom shader *could* use a list of coords and rotations, alpha to calculate per-pixel values on invidual 3D surfaces without having to render out or store the entire relative texture surface in memory.... it'd be a bit computationally expensive on a per pixel basis but better than throwing all that memory around which would be computationally expensive to move around as well....
I think this could be implemented in tS. You'd need a script with it's own widgets to do the editing, placement of the "splattered" images, and save out a data file listing [image, alpha brush, location, and rotation] for each image instance. A DX shader script that can read in the data file and create the resulting image in realtime for only the visible surfaces. That would be pretty cool and could save a TON of RAM and vidcard memory for displaying and working with scenes in realtime, while still giving the artist full control over the texturing (Painting?) of his landscape.
Heck the process could almost be considered 3D paint...
-Jack. |
Post by parva // Oct 31, 2006, 6:26am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Most game engines allow to "spray" your textures on the landscape, no need to create the alpha maps by hand. Such a tool would be really nice to have.
Agree with GraySho.
I saw a great sample of decals done with Reality engine (http://reality.artificialstudios.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/CreatingDecals)
Vertex painting would be another thing which would help to create maps to use later in a paintprogram... trueSpace needs maaaany things :rolleyes: |
Post by GraySho // Oct 31, 2006, 7:15am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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I did some research on the internet, and found this interesting article:
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2238.asp
That's the version where an alphamap is created.
The article is based on another one, which explains how to use the GPU to do the work (if I got that right):
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2238.asp
It should be possible to write a script to do just that, but that's far beyond my capabilities :rolleyes:
Would be one more selling/buying point for game developers. |
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