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3D chess
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
3D chess // Work in Progress
Post by kena // Jul 7, 2007, 8:26pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Once again, I find I've started something and don't know what to do with it. I got the idea from one of the SMC challenges, and basically, I decided to expand on my pawn by making the planet represent a queen and going to other planets from there. |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 8, 2007, 1:56am
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MadMouse
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Hi Kena,
The renders are a little dark for my taste, but the idea is excellent!
Have you ever seen the 3D chess set in star trek? link:- 3D Chess (http://www.thechessstore.com/c=3zvaYy477LVSgFFnX9rpQucYf/product/STREK2B)
This could be a better way of presenting your planet pieces.
HTH
Steve |
Post by trueSpaced // Jul 8, 2007, 4:03am
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trueSpaced
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Looking good, and very creative! I do agree with MadMouse that it is a bit dark (even though I usually like darker scenes)... I also think you should do something about the board. Your SMC was the same way; the board doesn't look like glass (if that's what you want it to look like), it just looks like transparent. It's not very shiny, either, are you using a glass reflectance texture? Oh, and btw, how do you play 3D chess? :confused:
-TrueSpaced:banana: |
Post by Steinie // Jul 8, 2007, 10:14am
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Steinie
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I like the idea your creating! Get rid of the bottom boards on the base and maybe use a solid base instead. The other ideas are good ones. |
Post by kena // Jul 8, 2007, 10:45am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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The bottom boards are just there for reference since I don't know where I'm going to put this. The play-board is either Lucite or plastic, not sure which. Maybe it's just an unknown element. :D
And the little I know about 3D chess you place one set at the top on one side and the other set at the bottom on the other. Pieces move the same way, but as you move, you can go up or down. A King or pawn can only go up one at a time, but the rook, bishop and Queen can move as many as they want. Not sure about how the knight goes, but I THINK it can only go up or down one level at a time.
I thought about using the startrek board, but then I didn't want to get franchised. ;) |
Post by trueSpaced // Jul 8, 2007, 10:48am
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trueSpaced
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Haha, cool! Sometimes unknown elements are cool, but I don't really think that this one looks right... Idk, I'm not as good a critic as Steinie, so ask him! ;) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 8, 2007, 11:55pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Ah 3d chess! I' think I've got a rule book for it somewhere among our Trek paraphenalia. We actually have a real 3d chess set which I used as a reference for this image. (Spot the geek?)
The pieces move as in a normal game IIRC but the 4 small flying corner boards can also move under certain circumstances.
This is a picture I made several years ago with tS 5.1 and is one of the earlier large scale scenes I made. The Enterprise models were freebies from the net and the raygun is included in the tS 5 SciFi objects library - everything else I made for the scene.
I've posted it here to maybe give you some ideas - there is something evocative about a chess set - 3d or traditional - and I think that by setting your chess set in a scene - a setting - you can create some interesting art.
Perhaps lying on some flagstones with a blood stained sword across the playing board or set up in a field with a (burning?) castle in the distance. Chess, being one of the oldest forms or stylised wargames always works well in a battlefield or conflict scenario.
I went for a similar approach with my picture which is entitled Space War, with Federation Starships facing off against alien UFO's. It's all symbolic - or is that sym bollocks?!;)
Anyway Kena, I hope this gives you some ideas to build on. It's looking good so far. |
Post by trueSpaced // Jul 9, 2007, 4:56am
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trueSpaced
Total Posts: 544
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Cool scene W!Z
-TrueSpaced:banana: |
Post by kena // Sep 20, 2007, 8:36pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Amazing how long I've struggled with this one. I think I've found the perfect table to put my chess set on.
8547
Once again - ignore the ground... It's just there for reference. I'm thinking of combining this with a landscape I've made. I dind't have the anti-aliasing on, so it looks a bit rough around the edges. |
Post by classic12 // Sep 21, 2007, 4:47am
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very nice table, I dunno ive ive missed something but why do you have a pawn on the 2nd floor and nothing else on there? is that just me not reading something? |
Post by jamesmc // Sep 21, 2007, 5:13am
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very nice table, I dunno ive ive missed something but why do you have a pawn on the 2nd floor and nothing else on there? is that just me not reading something?
I'm guessing the game just started and a pawn was captured. See the pawn to the side?
Great concept and good execution!
I like the theme of the chess pieces as well. :) |
Post by kena // Sep 21, 2007, 7:47am
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kena
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basically, there have been 3 moves in this game. pawn forward - pawn forward - pawn takes pawn. ;)
I just wanted a table that would fit with the chess set while I decide weather or not to make the lowest level of the set's board solid. |
Post by kena // Sep 22, 2007, 7:10am
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kena
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And I think I will put a few of these in my scene too. This arch is inspired by some you can find in a world called Kadish Tolesa.
8570 |
Post by kena // Oct 20, 2007, 9:30am
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kena
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Ok.. I think I have composition the way I want it, but I really need help with lights.
Is there any way to turn my light cones into actual lights with V-ray?
If not, any suggestions for getting it to look right?
9029 |
Post by RAYMAN // Oct 20, 2007, 9:48am
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RAYMAN
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Ok.. I think I have composition the way I want it, but I really need help with lights.
Is there any way to turn my light cones into actual lights with V-ray?
If not, any suggestions for getting it to look right?
9029
No ! You can´t. Thats exactly what I posted an hour
ago in the 7.5 thread. Thats a feature it does not support.
But I managed to get a glowing object texture when I used
Vray with a Hdri. When you want a light emition you can use a LW
setup and composite it into a Vray scene in photoshop.LW supports
area lights.What i found out when splinters posted his renders in
the dribble thread is that the renders of all TS render engines fit on
top of each other.
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 20, 2007, 2:29pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Kena, have you tried upping their ambient value and then increasing the 2nd bound parameter? You can also put lights inside them. If they are transmissive, it will color the light.
Then there's the just fake it approach. ;) Make them ambient, and use colored lights to fake the light cast.
It may take multiple passes to get exactly what you are looking for though since GI treats all geometry as shadow casting. So the trick is to remove the item when calculating your GI (save to irmap file), then put them back when rendering (load from irmap file). This works for adding skyspheres as well. Delete the skyshere when calculating the GI then put it back when rendering so it shows up in the reflections. :D |
Post by kena // Oct 20, 2007, 10:05pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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ok - Upped the ambient on the light ray thingies, as well as make them spread a bit more to hit the sides of the arches.
I tried both spotlights and omni lights.
The nearest arch has omni lights on it, and I think that is the way to go...
(I had to drill down in the link-editor to get them to cast shadows)
Question is: Should they be a bit brighter?
9041
And I think I may have to make the table base a bit shiner as well. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 20, 2007, 11:08pm
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Jack Edwards
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You're definitely making progress Kena.
The big thing that jumps out at me is that there are no deep shadows anywhere... If this is an outdoor scene, the lighting should probably be one infinite light set to cast shadows (you have to set that model side) and a GI + a background color or image (gradient?) to provide the ambient light cast by the sky.
If you mean for the yellow cones to be a volumetrics effect from the side lights shouldn't it be a night scene with darker lighting? Maybe use a light blue key light to represent the moon? It might not hurt to add an alpha map to the yellow cones to give them an effect more consistent with volumetrics.
Perhaps the chess table has it's own light source that lights up the glass and the two players?
Using a mapped shader on the gates could help make them look more interesting by varying the specular and reflectivity to match the marbling.
Also the ground texture looks a bit monotonous, maybe adding some grass, shrubs or rocks could help with that. |
Post by RAYMAN // Oct 21, 2007, 1:56am
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RAYMAN
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The big thing that jumps out at me is that there are no deep shadows anywhere... If this is an outdoor scene, the lighting should probably be one infinite light set to cast shadows (you have to set that model side) and a GI + and background color or image (gradient?) to provide the ambient light cast by the sky.
If you mean for the yellow cones to be a volumetrics effect from the side lights shouldn't it be a night scene with darker lighting?
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Well the cones as lights is what Kena said is what he wanted .
Thats something Vray just cant do properly.
This is a feature LW does and Dribble will do in the
future and a "standard" way of lighting in Kerkythea.
A big feature request I have !
Those lights would cast its shadows.
Peter |
Post by kena // Oct 21, 2007, 6:57am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Unfortunately Jack, V-ray does not have layers, so I cannot add an alpha key there.
The current brightness of the scene is due to a couple of infinite lights I have on right now so I can see the whole thing better for now. They will be removed once I get the correct effect from the arches. In Kadish Tolesa (the world the arches were inspired by) there is a blue fog everywhere, so I will probably try to put that kind of thing in.
Cannot do mapped shaders on the arches either (no layers).
The ground texture is supposed to be monotonous. If you look carefully, you will notice that there is actually nothing “living” in the scene.
So Rayman is correct, and I just need to fake it a bit more with the rest. |
Post by kena // Oct 21, 2007, 10:38am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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And I think I may have to tune the color or the transparency of the light beams here... but the rest makes me happy. except that table base.... I will have to think about how shiny I want it.
9046 |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 21, 2007, 10:49am
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Jack Edwards
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Kena check out the VRay Mapped Phong shader. It's not layers, but you can use it to vary the specular and reflectance like I mentioned. ;)
VRay does support alpha mapping, just not alpha blending.
To composite the image, you just have to do multiple renders and blend the in your paint program. Also if you render from model side you can composite VRay and Lightworks renders. That would allow you to use both Lightworks Volumetrics for your lights, and then composite it with a VRay GI render.
Yeah, the extra infinite lights would be what's putting the lighting off. What I do is use a DX9 ambient light. It lets me see what I'm modeling but doesn't show up in the render. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 21, 2007, 10:52am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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About the table, have you thought about making it glass and having it lit from the stand underneath? :D |
Post by kena // Oct 21, 2007, 1:50pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I don’t want the light rays to be shiny, so I’m just playing with specular. I took out all but one infinite light. That infinite light is blue and dim for the atmosphere.
I had a glass top to the table, but it made the shadows underneath look strange, so I made it solid.
Any other suggestions to improve the render? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 21, 2007, 2:13pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Kena, didn't mean for the lights to be shiny but for the gates to have a material that varies with the texture.
I think an alpha map would make the light cones less uniformly transparent. Compositing with Lightworks volumetrics would probably give the best results though. ;) Another option would be to paint the light cones in post.
Is GI on?
Also is your infinite light casting shadows?
Turning off transparent shadows may help with solving the odd shadows caused by the light reflecting through the glass.
Edit: also, I note that the light cones aren't casting any light on the ground, it would help to use spot lights instead of point lights I think.
-Jack. |
Post by kena // Oct 21, 2007, 9:02pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Last things first… I used spotlights, and the shadows didn’t go beyond them… That is the problem with spot lights…. No secondary light cone or bounce emissions. That is why I went with the omni lights turned down to 40 each.
I don’t have transparent shadows on right now because I made the table solid instead of glass. But turning off transparent shadows with a glass top made the table top look like some kind of strange metal.
Infinite light does not cast shadows. And the GI is currently off… I will play with that later.
This time I decided to use a transparency map, which seems to be V-Ray’s answer to an alpha map. I used a graduated shader to make the ends of the cones fade out toward to the bottoms.
As for the arches… I tried varying the textures in many different ways before coming up with a texture that made them look like they were extruded from some kind of liquefied rock.
Which one looks better?
This one?
9071
Or this one?
9072 |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 21, 2007, 11:32pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Kena,
To turn on shadows for the infinite light, you have to do it model side. Then it will cast shadows in VRay just fine. ;)
Also you can set the width and inner/outer falloff from the bottom (lens) of the spotlight widget or by using the values in it's LE brick.
I'm not seeing any GI, color-bleed, or light bounce in the render at all, so something's definitely not right with the GI settings. To test if you're getting any GI, set the envirionment color to white and see if it blows out your image. ;)
Bottom one is definitely better. It makes the table more of a focal point. But the chess boards themselves are too dark and difficult to see.
I don't have TS installed on my laptop right now, so when I get a chance I'll do up some sample renders tomorrow evening when I'm at my desktop computer. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 22, 2007, 2:21am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
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I think the biggest issue with this pic is that the light cones simply don't look like light cones, just plastic tubes. If you want to use the transparancy/alpha map route then play with various maps/shaders to get a better effect. Alternatively, have a look at Spacekdet's and Prodigy's tutorials in this thread for a myriad of ways to create the glow effect you're after http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4285
The chess set and table are lovely but it's almost like you're trying to hide them. |
Post by kena // Oct 22, 2007, 8:20am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Alternatively, have a look at Spacekdet's and Prodigy's tutorials in this thread for a myriad of ways to create the glow effect you're after Well… that would work fantastic for Lightworks, and is what I use when I’m doing a lightworks render… It’s just that I spent so much money on V-ray that I want to get as much out of it as possible.
I'm not seeing any GI, color-bleed, or light bounce in the render at all,… because, as I’ve stated, I have the GI turned off. I’m trying to learn things as I go here… Changing 12 things at once is just too confusing, so I will play with GI once I have the rest done.
To turn on shadows for the infinite light, you have to do it model side. And that is just where I went to turn the shadows for the infinite light off :D then I noticed that you can do it in the LE as well.
Also you can set the width and inner/outer falloff from the bottom (lens) of the spotlight widget or by using the values in it's LE brick. yes.. but that made a spotlight effect…. In other words, I would have to aim the spotlight at the chess board to get cast shadows, and that just does not look right. Who ever heard of a lamp pointing down and shining it’s main light at 90 degrees? Hehehe
Bottom one is definitely better. It makes the table more of a focal point. But the chess boards themselves are too dark and difficult to see. I agree with that… I like the brighter base myself. I will have to work on either lighting the pieces or making them lighter somehow. |
Post by kena // Oct 23, 2007, 4:41pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Well... I hate it when you start a render and go to bed only to wake up in the morning and find it didn't finish..... I made the white pieces too bright for GI that time though... I can tell.
9120
and I may have to dim lights quite a bit more to get it to look right.
:jumpy: |
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