|
|
Cleaning Up the Original Star Trek
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Cleaning Up the Original Star Trek // Work in Progress
Post by citev // Feb 20, 2006, 9:49am
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
So how did you build your neck? I had some severe problems after I started boolean subtraction for windows.
My saucer is two sections (top and bottom) because it made it easier for me to texture.
I did experiment with specular highlights for a "grid" but it seems to work just fine as a part of the texture. A one pixel grid on the saucer both top and bottom.
Thanks for the tips. I'll burn a test disk tonight.
Eric
My neck was just a poly line that followed the chords of the neck, then was extruded and mirrored. On my screenshots I think you can see the horizontal windows on the neck following a curve.
In my case I had no problems with booleans on the windows since I didn't use them for windows anywhere on the ship. Since the windows on Enterprise are flush to the hull, I found it more practical to use big bitmap decals for all the windows (constant value to simulate glow) and the color was a sort of random swirly hand made picture to simulate there being stuff behind the windows, rather than the plain glowing rectangles on the show. It also made it really easy to turn the lights "off" for the Constellation model. Since it was a planar projection, it meant the bitmaps would line up perfectly once the decals were in position, making it easy to tell if they were or not.
If for some reason I wanted to get close enough to see into a window, I would have added vertical and horizontal edges on the surface to frame the windows then added a window texture inside the face(s) that make up the window. If you don't mind the exploding polgon count, if the window texture was transparent (glass even, or a combination), you could then build a model for the inside of the room and just place it behind the window. If you need the windows recessed (like on the refit), you just sweep the window face(s) back into the hull. This way, if the surface is curved at all, the sweep will be too. It's how I did the windows and the door grooves on the shuttlecraft--just frame them with new edges to define the shape and sweep! No booleans required!
Transparency is an excellent substitute for making holes in the geometry. The "bites" in my Constellation are all just transparency maps. It allowed me to get a really ragged non-polygonal looking edge. All I had to do from there was have greeblies and broken trusswork sticking out of the "bites" to complete the effect.
By the way, don't be shy on the intensity of the weathering if you want it visible in NTSC. Most subtle differences in color values tend to clamp out. I tried to weather Enterprise the way it was when it came out of the model shop, rather than how it looked on screen (clean). You won't have to go as far as the clown makeup they have on it in the Smithsonian (grr), but it'll probably need to be stronger than you suspect. I think Greg Jein had the amount about right on his replica for "Trials and Tribblations"
Have you figured out how you're going to do the "flame" effect inside the planet killer yet?
How'd your test burn turn out?
Conrad |
Post by scifieric // Feb 21, 2006, 1:45am
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
My first two versions of the Enterprise also used .bmp images to simulate windows. In this version, I had an idea for placing rooms behind the windows but that didn't work out.
I'll have to try to define a window with an outline but I really wanted consistancy between shape and size and having a "drill bit" for boolean subtraction guarenteed the same window at all times.
I'll keep in mind the transparency option for the Constellation but I usually find that transparency leaves behind a detectable area. It can be a slight change to the color or brightness of the background. Transparency is rarely "transparent". I don't know if you ever watched "LEXX" or not but during their 3rd season (which was suprisingly good) they kept showing the ship as it fired it's planetary kill weapon and you could see the "transparent" plane preceeding the effect!
I agree with you on the latest Smithsonian restoration (never heard the term "clown makeup" used for that one before! LOL!) and my first attempts were labeled as very "Greg Jein".
I have an idea for the Planet killer effect. I need some more experimental time.
The test burn turned out great! I think it really looked like the original series for a few seconds! Thanks for asking,
Eric |
Post by scifieric // Feb 21, 2006, 5:50pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
I haven't figured it all out yet, but it'll be something along the lines of this. |
Post by citev // Feb 22, 2006, 9:59pm
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
Regarding the transparency thing, I found the problem manageable. There are any number of shots in my version that every single object had tranparencies and the problem didn't manifest. Interestingly, thus far I have been unable to get TS7 to do it at all.
As for the window issue, I didn't feel it necessary to have things any more precise than would be visible on screen (I was on a deadline). If you did want to get really really close though, say pushing in close enough to see people inside, have you tried just making a shell for the hull?
In fact, have you tried what I call the "swiss cheese" technique? I built a neck to demonstrate. The neck is just a cylinder with a lot of sides (an even number). Select half the faces by picking an ortho view and using the rectangle selector. Switch back to perspective and *move* the selected faces away from the other half (the sides faces should be flat and unselected if you picked an even number). Distort the selection to fit the curve, then do the same for the other half. The taper tool is handy here. When you get the object to the right height, draw new edges across the top and bottom so you can move around curved front and back without distorting the curved front and back. This also insures the lines connecting the top and bottom curves should stay parallel, making for a smooth render. Add edges along the vertical face of one side to conform to the rest of the curve then boolean the whole thing in half. Mirror and weld. It should be quite smooth with no wrinkles. (One of those "in retrospect" tricks I figured out after the project)
Next, make a rectangular object with the cube tool that the neck will fit into. Boolean subtract the windows out of the rectangular object. The point of this is that the boolean function seems to have a much easier time with simple geometry, and there's not much simpler than a cube. It's also easier to tell if the boolean operation goofed up the geometry. It's important to check if the geometry is good. Rotate it around and look through the holes on both sides. Save after each! I only had to fiddle with the precision once on the block you see below. Once you are done, position the correctly aligned neck shape *inside* the block and use boolean intersect. Then hollow out the neck with a boolean subtract using a slightly smaller version of the neck shape. The resulting finished neck has thus only had 3 boolean operations performed on it, which I find much safer and less likely to disrupt the geometry.
Note the one I just made is very smooth and you can get really close to it and the window detail holds up. Now all you have to do is build the inside!
You seem to be on the right path for the planet killer flame effect. Now all you need is two more of those, but slightly different!;)
Conrad |
Post by scifieric // Feb 23, 2006, 4:13pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Nice demonstration, thanks!
I'm going to have to give that a try.
I'm working on the asteroids but I'm not getting the effect I want. I may have to go with something that actually looks like an asteroid and I don't want that. I want paper mache' like what TOS used to use. It's a little tough. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Feb 24, 2006, 9:28pm
|
ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
|
Well Eric,
You single handedly got me to use lots of my time downloading the "star trek new voyages" files. :)
They kinda make me grin a bit... perhaps a little over the top on the ship aerobatics... one doesn't get the sense of a heavy cruiser flying around. I see what you're getting at in terms of the ships "backing up for traction".
I think you've got the right idea as far as making the ship and props more in-tuned with the original series. Keep us posted on your progress!!!
P.K. |
Post by scifieric // Feb 28, 2006, 2:05pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Well Eric,
You single handedly got me to use lots of my time downloading the "star trek new voyages" files. :)
They kinda make me grin a bit... perhaps a little over the top on the ship aerobatics... one doesn't get the sense of a heavy cruiser flying around. I see what you're getting at in terms of the ships "backing up for traction".
I think you've got the right idea as far as making the ship and props more in-tuned with the original series. Keep us posted on your progress!!!
P.K.
Hello Professor!
I wasn't thrilled with the first episode, but I thought the second episode was pretty good ... especially for fan fiction!
Thanks for the compliments and I will keep you posted here. Work has been a little crazy and will be more so for the next two weeks. After that, pretty good.
Eric |
Post by scifieric // Apr 14, 2006, 5:55am
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Well, it's been a while and this isn't quite an update but I did just get TrueSpace 7.1 and VRay 1.0. Just trying to get the hang of it ... |
Post by scifieric // May 31, 2006, 5:23pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Sorry for the long delay but here is the next little bit:
http://pacsadminpro.com/images/L370system.jpg
This AVI file uses the Xvid codec: http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/
http://pacsadminpro.com/movies/SysL370m2.avi
Here is the Real Media version at 640x480 at the suggestion of Prof Moriarty:
http://pacsadminpro.com/movies/SysL370m2.rmvb
And the WMV version of the same:
http://pacsadminpro.com/movies/SysL370m2.WMV
I think that the avi is the best of the three.
I need to remake the asteroids, they're too smooth. I'll change that a bit.
Tell me what you think. |
Post by citev // Jun 1, 2006, 3:38am
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
Hey, Eric!
Nice to see you back at it! Hope it's going well.
I notice you decided to go with "realistic" asteroids rather than the paper mache type. I don't blame ya there!
I think your shot looks fine aesthetically. I note you put the star in the shot too ;) (see attached for how I did it).
There are some things you may wish to think about which affected how I did it:
Once you establish a lot of rocks, if you don't show them in subsequent scenes in the wrecked star system, their absence may be noticeable. That's why I went with dust clouds and rather fewer rocks. In mine there's wrecked star system conspicuous in every shot, and I wasn't about to spend all my time setting up asteroid animations, plus all the extra rocks I'd have to model to avoid having recognizable ones popping up after a few re-uses. Clouds were much easier to handle, and multi-planing a bunch made it easy to suggest great depth simply by having some non-moving clouds in the static background. Perhaps a deep clump of asteroids that move out of frame before the end of the shot leaving empty sky behind it might help you match it up with the "empty sky" look the original had.
Also worth looking at is the speed at which your big background rocks are moving (which do give a nice depth cue) they seem to indicate that Enterprise has largely stopped to look at them. Not sure that's what you intended.
Keep on!
Conrad |
Post by citev // Jun 1, 2006, 4:16am
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
Oo! Before I forget:
This particular screencap is a very early one I did, and if you look close, you can see an avoidable boo boo (which I would have fixed, had I the time). Notice the new effect I overlaid on the original viewscreen overlaps the upper corner of the screen on the original footage, occluding the blue border a bit (fortunately, no one noticed during the screening). I quickly discovered the viewscreen is neither completely rectangular on screen, nor is it precisely parallel to the edges. My video editing software wouldn't let me skew the footage to fit, so even as is with the slight overlap, you could see the original asteroids sneaking by in the two or so pixel wide gaps on the edges.
What I should have done, and what worked really well in later shots was to take a screenshot of the scene, and paint holes in the areas where there are blinking lights and new graphics, and use that as an overlay, with the new graphics sandwiched between that and the original footage.
Places this is applicable are on the viewscreen shots on Constellation, whose viewer has round corners plus blinky lights underneath. Also helpful during the planet killer reveal when the shuttlecraft window shutter slides down. In that case, the overlay was the screenshot of front bulkhead with hole painted in for the window overlaid on top of the animated window on top of the planet killer.
Conrad |
Post by Rareth // Jun 1, 2006, 5:36am
|
Rareth
Total Posts: 149
|
Excellant modeling of the Enterprise, very well done... I'm still learning the ins and outs of TS 6.6 its a big change from TS 3. I wish I had archived the models of the Defiant I did with Truespace 3 to cd, but I lost them in the computer crash of '04. I will have to recreate them in TS 6.6 once I get the hang of the interface.. |
Post by scifieric // Jun 1, 2006, 5:18pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Hello Conrad! Thanks for the notes and the image.
Yep, I'm still having a problem with the asteroids I want. I really wanted them to look like Yonada. I didn't know you put the star in yours too! (Unless you typed that before ...?) It always bothered me that Kirk stated that the star in the system was still intact but we didn't see a scan of the system and we didn't see the star on the screen, so I figured it was an easy error to fix.
I had a lot of stuff in the L370 shot, that's for sure! lol I wasn't going to quite repeat that for the L374. I figured I'd have the asteroids for L374 more clumped together since their planets only recently got broken up, giving me lots of open sky. And of course, the DDM heads out of the system going for the Rigel colony and I figured I'd only show star backgrounds from that part on.
Back to L370, I was trying to make it look like some of the matte paintings they used during the run of the original series, like the Lithium cracking station in Where No Man and the futuristic city of A Taste of Armageddon. I don't know if I made it to that level ... but I tried! ;)
Great points and some things for me to look out for. I hadn't really given too much thought to having asteroids in all shots towards the end but you've crystallized it for me! |
Post by scifieric // Jun 1, 2006, 5:46pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Oo! Before I forget:
This particular screencap is a very early one I did, and if you look close, you can see an avoidable boo boo (which I would have fixed, had I the time).
Conrad, you're okay. I actually made a screen "matte" and was going to use it (I still have it on my hard drive) and had for a time considered creating a 3D representation of the bridge so that I could put not only any shot I want on the screen, but enough detail that I could "dolly" in on the shot if I wanted to. If you compare the static shot I posted (from my first effort) you'll notice that the bridge lighting does NOT match my video of the screen! Nope, I cheated. Another fellow, Scott Gammans, who has started his own version of the episode, pointed out a nice 4 second clip of the bridge viewscreen in "The Immunity Syndrome". Different flash pattern for the lights, but most people don't notice. Plus, it's a clean shot and better lit.
I found that I could cut into the screen very little and get away with a pretty clean, though skewed, replacement of the video.
I may still make my 3D version so long as I can make it look like the real thing it would make some of this easier in the end.
You know, the more you talk about your episode and give us these tantalizing glimpses, the more I hope you post your effects on the web some time so that the rest of us can enjoy! |
Post by scifieric // Jun 1, 2006, 5:57pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Excellant modeling of the Enterprise, very well done... I'm still learning the ins and outs of TS 6.6 its a big change from TS 3. I wish I had archived the models of the Defiant I did with Truespace 3 to cd, but I lost them in the computer crash of '04. I will have to recreate them in TS 6.6 once I get the hang of the interface..
Yep, heck, I found the change from 3 to 4 a huge change! I've started to use version 5 to help a couple of other users and of course I have 7.1 but boy is it really different. I'm a little intimidated.
Oh, that's rough and I know. Both of my first efforts at the Enterprise were lost, one to a hard drive crash and one to a virus.
I've got DVD backups now. LOL!
You know, if you still have your copy of 3 (heck, even if you don't, it's available for free now!) you can model parts in 3 and import them into 6 and see if they survive the transition. Almost anything I make in 4 actually renders better in 7.1!!
Thanks for the comments and the compliments! |
Post by citev // Jun 2, 2006, 2:50am
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
Eric,
I don't believe I did say I put the star in, but I certainly added it for the exact same reason you did. Always wondered why they didn't, and them not doing it makes you wonder what Kirk was looking at when he says the star is intact.
As for the Rigel thing, I just assumed that they never left the system because Constellation had a busted Warp Drive yet was close enough to rescue Enterprise. Also when Enterprise had it's Warp Drive out, they mentioned the Planet Killer was sucking up debris for fuel, suggesting they were still in-system. I guess a logical explanation is that the the PK didn't want to go to warp while all the debris was around--might get a big rock right down the gullet by accident!
More footage, you say?
Okay, I cobbled together a teaser/trailer from all over the show, so you should get a pretty good feel for my version of the episode. If you still have my title credits and hangar scene, you will have over two minutes of what I did.
Click Here to Download (http://www.savefile.com/files/7177376)
16.8MB mpeg. It's full rez this time if rather heavily compressed, but you should be able to watch it fullscreen and get a good idea of how it looks. I apologize for the rather abrupt edits, but I was trying to cram in as much as possible and keep the file size somewhere below mental.
This clip includes
1)The "Continuous Search Pattern" transition which Eric asked about previously.
2)The Enterprise Approaching the wreck of the Constellation
3)The beginning of Act I right after the teaser and title credits (you can get a good look at my Constellation)
4)The Enterprise being chased by the Planet Killer. You may recognize the blocking of this scene to resemble the Blockade Runner/Star Destroyer chase from the original Star Wars. A deliberate homage, of course. Lots of clouds in this shot.
5)The charging Planet Killer shoots the Enterprise while a little yeoman has Decker sign stuff during a space battle.
6)The Enterprise shoots back! Yay!
7)The Planet Killer is unimpressed. When I did the space battle, I tried elablorate some on Decker's strategy. I figured the reason he wanted to get close was to get behind the Planet Killer's firing cone and use the Enterprise's greater mobility to allow him to stay behind it and shoot it, while keeping it from shooting him. The only problem was that it was invincible, so he was merely entirely crazy, not entirely stupid. It also helped explain why they always seemed to be moving toward each other. The Planet Killer would need to get some distance to allow it to turn enough to fire, and the Enterprise would need to repeat the cycle and close the distance and get behind it.
8)The Constellation's suicide dive and part of the explosion. The gas plume effect was one I sweated rather a lot (remembering Pyrocluster's render times) until I realized I could just composite my Planet Killer on top of theirs and hide the overlap with lens flare. Cheating? Possibly. I was in a huge hurry by then, and barely finished in time. I'll live with it.
9)The end piece of the episode leading into the credits. The reason I include this is because I wanted to show you the pleasing effect of showing the Enterprise moving from the dangerous environment of the episode back into open space. I think it kind of has a relaxing/relief sort of effect.
Comments are welcome, though be warned I'm not changing anything. It's done. I've seen this episode. Interestingly, I'm not embarrassed by much of it yet in the 10 months since I finished, so I guess I've learned nothing!:D |
Post by scifieric // Jun 2, 2006, 4:17pm
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Hello Conrad!
Too bad your credits and shuttle bay file isn't still posted. I'd love to show them all to my wife!
Comments are welcome, though be warned I'm not changing anything. It's done. I've seen this episode. Interestingly, I'm not embarrassed by much of it yet in the 10 months since I finished, so I guess I've learned nothing!:D
I feel that way quite often. :rolleyes:
About the impulse power speeds for the episode, yep, you're right and I'll have to find a way around it but I thought I could get away with a lot fewer asteroids once the action starts to take place. Heck, the original never showed any except for the one shot on the viewscreen. LOL
I'll be back! |
Post by citev // Jun 3, 2006, 4:19am
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
Hello Conrad!
Too bad your credits and shuttle bay file isn't still posted. I'd love to show them all to my wife!
Not a problem. Easy enough to load one up!
This is full resolution, 16.5MB mpeg, surprisingly intact after the compression.
Click here. (http://www.savefile.com/files/8659247)
Enjoy! |
Post by scifieric // Jun 3, 2006, 5:41am
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Thanks Conrad, you're a real sport! I'm sure my wife will enjoy this a lot. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 5, 2006, 12:57am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Thanks Conrad, you're a real sport! I'm sure my wife will enjoy this a lot.
Hmmn - sounds like I'm not the only one who's partner is a major trekkie/trekker/trekoid:D |
Post by scifieric // Jun 5, 2006, 1:03am
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Hmmn - sounds like I'm not the only one who's partner is a major trekkie/trekker/trekoid:D
Of course, she also walked by while I was viewing the end result of my latest effort and she said, "You're not working on that again?" before walking off.
LOL! :D |
Post by citev // Jun 7, 2006, 12:55am
|
citev
Total Posts: 12
|
Hey Eric!
I was meaning to ask you: Now that you have TS 7 and Vray, have you tried simulating the original lighting setup on the TOS shooting miniature using Vray's Global Illumination?
Click to see original lighting in action (http://members.aol.com/IDICPage2/behindthescenes.html)
There's tons and tons of indirect lighting going on, contributing to the unique look of the old show.
Hope you enjoyed my trailers...:)
Conrad |
Post by scifieric // Jun 7, 2006, 1:06am
|
scifieric
Total Posts: 38
|
Hello Conrad, I'm sorry I haven't posted again. Work has been a time-consuming bear.
Yes, I enjoyed your work immensely! I'll be showing my wife your footage to my wife. I'm sure she'll enjoy it as well.
V-Ray is a learning curve for me. I get some strange artifacts and you have to use textures that V-Ray likes! You can't just import anything.
I need to dedicate some time to it. I'm not all that quick a learner! LOL |
|
