|
|
tS7 and Windows Vista
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS7 and Windows Vista // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 4, 2007, 10:37am
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Still recovering from my marathon system build after my laptop died shortly after Christmas. Lets just say things didn't go so well an after frying 2 motherboards and one CPU, I've finally got everything working and stable.
(Xeon 3040 @ 3.3Ghz! ;-))))
But I can confirm that tS 7.11 doesn't run on Vista x64. It locks up on the splash screen. So my advice would be unless you plan to upgrade to tS 7.5, I wouldn't get Vista x64 unless you dual boot with XP.
I dissagree with Norm about 32bit. ALL the current chips made by AMD and Intell are 64 bit and 3D rendering is one of the only uses that takes advantage of the 64bit architecture. My 64 bit dual core chip cost me less than $200, that's a very mainstream price. If tS doesn't target the 64bit market then it's going to lose out to other competitors that do.
Personally I like the new Vista interface and didn't have any problem installing Vista x64 (Ultimate) other than you you can't run the install from a 32bit OS, so DONT DO THE DOWNLOAD OPTION unless you have XP x64 installed already.
My biggest beef with Vista is that the user protections (the "most secure operating system ever" part) ask for confirmation every time you try to do something even when in administrator mode. ARGGGGHHH! It dark flashes the screen and pops up a dialog right in the middle, gonna cause seizures in people for sure. Not to mention it's friggin annoying!!! After getting a major headache and thoroughly annoyed, I eventually had to disable it, but it still bugs you about running unsigned executables. Also some installs that say they are Vista compatible (Adobe Reader for example) require you to run them in XP compatibility mode or they WONT work.
Also I think the Home edition is probably fine for must people, unless you need the media center features on one of your computers. Then you're probably best off getting the Ultimate + # Home licences deal, where the home licenses are $50 extra for each one. For the most part I wouldn't upgrade unless the apps you're using start taking advantage of/requiring Vista. But if you're getting a new computer, I'd get one with Vista on it instead of XP.
Also it was easy to set up a dual boot system with XP on one partition and Vista on the other, so dual boot is definitely an option. :)
-Jack. |
Post by rj0 // Feb 4, 2007, 7:09pm
|
rj0
Total Posts: 167
|
ZDNet's Windows Vista's three killer features:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=190&tag=nl.e539
I think I can wait ...
rj
P.S. The 'TalkBacks' are amusing. |
Post by Shike // Feb 4, 2007, 10:56pm
|
Shike
Total Posts: 511
|
@j_edwards:
Dual boot, yeah that might be the solution I'm looking for!
Then I could have a separate 64bit environment.
Didn't notice before in the poll that tS had problems in 32bit Vista also.... and I've seen similar threads on ZBrush. For ZB they had to rightclick on the executable and choose "run as administrator", but I get the impression you guys already tested that.
I think I'm going for 32bit XP now (?), and after half a year (or whatever it takes) when applications and drivers are available, going for 64bit.
( with tS it's easy to test on multiple platforms, but I worry abit about the other apps that require OnlineActivations.... hope their licensing departments doesn't cause any trouble :confused: )
After this weekend it became even more urgent to get a new computer...after a computerfreeze caused by NFScarbon which required a PowerOFF reboot, my bios had changed, and the CPU downclocked from 3.2 -> 1.6GHz.... easily fixed, but it got me nervous!!
EDIT:
Hm, nice, just found another reason to go for XP:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/
Everything seems to run slower in Vista (might change when apps are written for Vista?) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 8, 2007, 10:09pm
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Hi Shrike,
From what I've heard the Vista DVDs come with both the 32 and 64 bit versions on them, so I don't think you have to buy one or the other. I did the download option so I can't confirm that until my DVD comes in the mail (was back-ordered 2 weeks).
I really haven't had much time to mess with Vista but so far it seems pretty solid. I like the way it handles images a lot. The viewer app/image browser Vista loads is quick and lightweight. It has a drop down menu that lets you load the image right into whatever editing package of your choice which is a nice workflow and was really intuitive to set up. For quick work where you don't need to load a heavy app like Photoshop it's a lot nicer to just pull up the image in say Paint.Net and do a few tweaks or resizing. The mail and calendar apps remind me a lot of Outlook and are nice too. Overall my first impressions (other than the AUC thing) are rather positive.
The Vista performance issues are probably because the drivers haven't been optimized yet (most are still beta) and the apps might have been in compatibility mode instead of run natively. When I get a chance, I'll see about doing to render time comparisons with with the tS Beta and post them on the ProTeam forums.
I guess my point would be not to limit yourself but if you do make the jump to Vista to try and make sure you get a disc with both the 32 and 64bit versions on it so you'll have more flexibility later on. Looking over the Microsoft website "upgrading" from any of the lesser Vista licences to Business and Ultimate seems to cost more than getting an OEM (system builder) or XP to Vista Upgrade licence of Ultimate straight out. I think I paid $250 or so for mine. Not cheap especially with ProTeam renewal coming up this month, but not the end of the world either.
Good luck with the new system btw! And it's definitely worth overclocking! The chip I bought was around $200 and it's easily outperforming Intel's $1000 chip at stock settings. Why waste all that potential? That's like driving to work at 25mph in a car that can do 50mph. ;-) Also the new chips have built in cycle throttling that kicks in when they over heat so it's really hard to fry them... unless you do something stupid like I did. :p LOL!
Things to look for in your new motherboard:
Can it overvolt the CPU? - you need quite a bit more voltage to run the CPU higher than stock. Generally it's pretty safe up to 1.5volts.
Can it clock the ram separetly from the FSB/CPU? - That can make a HUGE difference because you can re-use your old slower ram and you can clock the CPU a lot higher without getting very expensive ram.
Can you overvolt the Northbridge or the RAM? - If you have to run your ram at a speed higher than it's spec'd for, then you'll need to up the voltage slightly to get the extra performance and keep it stable. Some of the higher speed memory chips even require the higher voltage just to boot up at those speeds. 2.1~ 2.2 volt not being uncommon. Also the board really MUST have the ability to manually set the ram timings.
From my experience the ASUS P5N-E SLI (what I used) was very finicky with the RAM so if it's your first overclock it might not be the right board to use. Performace is very good, but I had to replace the Northbridge chipset heatsink with a copper heat pipe/fan solution to keep it cool.
I'm sure Alien could probably come up with more good advice and I've probably hijacked this thread enough with HW talk. :)
-Jack. |
Post by pcread // Feb 9, 2007, 11:29pm
|
pcread
Total Posts: 21
|
I'm loving my Vista. Aero is beautiful and the Motion Desktop, although not fully implemented, is great.
One other tS related drawback though; a lot of the tutorials are in .wmv but need a codec that isn't yet available for Vista. |
Post by Shike // Feb 10, 2007, 3:18am
|
Shike
Total Posts: 511
|
Hi Shrike,
Good luck with the new system btw! And it's definitely worth overclocking! ....Also the new chips have built in cycle throttling that kicks in when they over heat so it's really hard to fry them... unless you do something stupid like I did. :p LOL!
Ah, yes... that's what I'm worried about.:o
If you fried it even though you know what you're doing...imagine what would happen if a HW-newbie like me tried...I'm guessing massive explosion ;)
And I don't think Alien could help me... the things you mention about voltages, memory timings.... way over my head :o
( My kind of overclocking hasn't been seen in MANY years... anyone remember old 386 computers with a TURBO-button? :D )
I think my new rig will be interesting...being able to test tS and other apps in each OS will make it easier to wait for complete vista32/64 support. :D
( Though, if I'd only gone for Vista64 I might still been able to use the case to heat my coffee ;) ) |
Post by stoker // Feb 13, 2007, 11:15am
|
stoker
Total Posts: 506
|
Well if anyone was thinking of getting Vista I can confirm that TS7.11 works on Vista buisness Edition (32bit) with no major problems. Seems to be a little slow at starting up and I get the occasional crash when clicking to go in to player, part from that, its fine:D |
Post by Bobbins // Feb 13, 2007, 11:29am
|
Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
|
Well if anyone was thinking of getting Vista I can confirm that TS7.11 works on Vista buisness Edition (32bit) with no major problems. Seems to be a little slow at starting up and I get the occasional crash when clicking to go in to player, part from that, its fine:D
Yep, I know :)
Not seen the crashing swapping to Player, though. |
Post by pcread // Feb 13, 2007, 12:30pm
|
pcread
Total Posts: 21
|
Well if anyone was thinking of getting Vista I can confirm that TS7.11 works on Vista buisness Edition (32bit) with no major problems. Seems to be a little slow at starting up and I get the occasional crash when clicking to go in to player, part from that, its fine:D
So what are you doing different to us Vista users that can't get it to run?
I've got Ultimate that I upgraded from XP on a Dell XPS M1710 with 2GB and tS is resolute in its inactivity. "Truespace has stopped running."
Tried administrator mode, Compatibility mode, all three Disables. No cigar. |
Post by stoker // Feb 13, 2007, 12:33pm
|
stoker
Total Posts: 506
|
So what are you doing different to us Vista users that can't get it to run?
I've got Ultimate that I upgraded from XP on a Dell XPS M1710 with 2GB and tS is resolute in its inactivity. "Truespace has stopped running."
Tried administrator mode, Compatibility mode, all three Disables. No cigar.
Well if its the 64bit edition then you probably wont have any joy as on a different pc i have ultimate 64bit edition and i get the same error. I cant see what i am doing differently with the other pc though i dont think the different versions of vista would effect it but maybe this is the case:o |
Post by pcread // Feb 13, 2007, 1:06pm
|
pcread
Total Posts: 21
|
Nah, only the 32-bit. Might go 64 when I rebuild the laptop in the future.
Is it Ultimate, rather than the number of bits? That would be a slap in the face. Spend more, get less. |
Post by Bobbins // Feb 13, 2007, 1:22pm
|
Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
|
Since the 64 bit version of Vista won't run 16 bit code, I was wondering if tS has or used any 16 bit code somewhere. Problem with this theory is that Vista should capture the problem and flag a warning rather than hang. |
Post by pcread // Feb 13, 2007, 11:48pm
|
pcread
Total Posts: 21
|
It's not just the bit issue. Look at the results of the survey. 5 users (so far) who can't run it on 32-bit Vista. |
Post by Bobbins // Feb 14, 2007, 1:34am
|
Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
|
Ahh, but there are some of us who can run it on 32 bit Vista too. It's a moot point anyway as Vista is not advertised as a supported platform for tS, so anybody who tries running it is doing so at their own risk and in the knowledge it might not work. If they have problems, there is also no expectation of support from Caligari.
I think the survey was more to see what the current state of play is and to give Caligari some indication as to the relative importance in making sure future versions work for everybody. |
Post by Amon // Feb 14, 2007, 2:56am
|
Amon
Total Posts: 28
|
I can run Truespace 6.6 with the Gamepak under Vista Home Premium 32bit. It works flawlessly.
It has to be something specific to the new Truespace 7.11 code.
I'm not to keen on going back to XP as I find Vista is much better, faster and looks good compared to XP. There's no sense in going back just for one app that doesn't work. |
Post by stoker // Feb 14, 2007, 5:12am
|
stoker
Total Posts: 506
|
There's no sense in going back just for one app that doesn't work.
Ye same here although I have considered have both operating systems installed and using dual boot but the space on my HD limits me from doing this really:( |
Post by Norm // Feb 14, 2007, 5:19am
|
Norm
Total Posts: 862
|
If you check your trueSpace7.11 installation directory in the ts/scripts folder, you will find a file called init.js. This file has a loading scenario for opengl, which we can turn off, by commenting out one of the lines of code. We can comment the whole line by using // at the beginning. You can load the file in notepad to edit. Use notepad's Edit/Find and search for:
14640977-24EE-4A07-8028-EDFED6E0E3EE
It is a ways down the init.js file, but when you find that line, place the // at beginning/left of the line. Save the file, being careful to save it as init.js and not init.txt. When you go to save the file, use the "type" dropdown list to change it to "All Files". Once you have completed the save, restart trueSpace7.11 and let me know what you find.
Thanks in advance everyone. |
Post by Bobbins // Feb 14, 2007, 5:23am
|
Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
|
Thanks Norm, it's been hard holding my tongue on that one! |
Post by Steinie // Feb 14, 2007, 5:40am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
You guys might want to start a new poll? |
Post by scapino // Feb 14, 2007, 7:35am
|
scapino
Total Posts: 101
|
Norm...
That fix you posted works, somewhat. I can now start TS7.11 succesfully. But the player display is wonky looking.....
I dont think TS is playing well with DX9/10. :)
Heres a screen grab of what I'm seeing.
I'm running a NVidia 6600Gt, Vista Home Premium, 1.5 gigs ram ect.
I tried setting TS7s properties to Disable Desktop Composition (turning off AeroGlass), but it mad no difference.
Kurt |
Post by Amon // Feb 14, 2007, 7:39am
|
Amon
Total Posts: 28
|
Woah! Thanks Norm. :)
That seems to have fixed the problem. It's a little slow starting up but once loaded it appears to be working fine.
I'll try doing some modelling and rendering now and report bacjk my findings.
Thanks again, dude :) |
Post by Amon // Feb 14, 2007, 8:03am
|
Amon
Total Posts: 28
|
Heres a screenie. Everything appears to be working fine. This has made my day. :)
admin+edit: image too large |
Post by scapino // Feb 14, 2007, 8:36am
|
scapino
Total Posts: 101
|
My bad!
Just remembered I hadnt installed my Chipset drivers (VIA).
Went to VIAs site and got the newest Hyperion drivers for Vista 32 bit, installed them, and now TS7 works fine.
I ALWAYS forget the chipset drivers when I do an OS install....DUH! :)
Kurt |
Post by pcread // Feb 14, 2007, 11:34am
|
pcread
Total Posts: 21
|
Cheers Norm, that fixed mine too. Now I can get back to play...er...work. |
Post by stoker // Feb 14, 2007, 12:30pm
|
stoker
Total Posts: 506
|
Thanks alot Norm runs Fine on my 64 bit edition of vista a little slow at starting up though, part from that its cool.:cool: |
Post by Alien // Feb 26, 2007, 6:00pm
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
I'm not clear about the last statement in the poll that was answered. All the names listed HAVE Vista and didn't try it with TS...... right?
Well, I can't answer for anyone else, but in my case - no. Due to the wording of that last statement, it's still possible to not have Vista & be truthful when selecting that option. :)
(have vague memorys of another thread that the old tS core, still present in ts7 as Modeler, needed to be replace by the new core which would be easy to compile in 64bit...? I might be completely wrong though...my memory is pretty oddly wired ;) )
As is mine, because I remember it too. I believe it was a post by TomasB, in response to a question from me, IIRC.
don't understand which cpu's are 32/64 bit
I could be wrong, but I think all AMD/Intel CPUs can do both nowadays. It's possible though that maybe some of the cheapo Celeron/Sempron/whateveron chips can't do 64bit though - I don't know, I don't pay any attention to those. :)
That's like driving to work at 25mph in a car that can do 50mph. ;-)
Or sticking to the speed limit in a Bugatti Veyron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron). http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/disturbed.gif
I'm sure Alien could probably come up with more good advice and I've probably hijacked this thread enough with HW talk. :)
I wondered why me ears were burning a couple of weeks ago. :D
One other tS related drawback though; a lot of the tutorials are in .wmv but need a codec that isn't yet available for Vista.
Ugh! The whole putting-tutorials-in-.wmv-format thing is a pet peeve of mine. I'd much rather they used either .mpg or .avi [either DivX or Xvid, I don't mind].
And I don't think Alien could help me... the things you mention about voltages, memory timings.... way over my head :o
Actually, I'm not sure how much I could help you either - I don't overclock. Some say that you can save money by buying slower components & overclocking them to run at speeds of more expensive parts, & that's true, you can. However, there's always the risk of something going wrong, & if you're on a limited budget such a mistake could mean you'd be without a computer for days, or even <shudder> weeks! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/fear.gif
( My kind of overclocking hasn't been seen in MANY years... anyone remember old 386 computers with a TURBO-button? :D )
Wow, that takes me back... :) |
Post by Norm // Feb 27, 2007, 7:07am
|
Norm
Total Posts: 862
|
Given the timing of the initial poll, combined with the release of the fix information, the poll is skewed as it sits. A new poll will be created and I will link there from here and vice-versa. Hopefully those who provided feedback for the first poll, can now provide more accurate feedback.
Thanks for understanding and patience in this regard folks.
Here is link to new poll: vote here (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2307) |
|
