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Help with PC please
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Help with PC please // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 27, 2007, 4:13pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Vista made me re-activate after I had to swap out one of the motherboards, you just have to call Microsoft and tell them you had to replace the motherboard. They'll give you a new activation code.
You shouldn't have to reinstall windows, but you might have to boot up in safe mode then install the new motherboard drivers. It probably will be a fair bit of work.
Might be a good opportunity to buy a Vista x64 upgrade...
Man Splinters, it's like throwing good money after bad though. The costs just keep going up until basically you have have bought enough to make a new computer. Then the temptation is to put the old one back together and have two. ;-) At least you'd have a decent spare render machine for your render farm... lol
Have you tried just putting everything back together the way it was, and returning it to the store? I just bought a C2D Gateway system and put in a nVidia vid card for my boss -- no problems there and the prices should be comparable. You could likely even save a bit more money and just get an e-machines computer since you've already bought a better PSU. My dad's e-machines computer is running a 7900GS no probs after replacing the power supply.
Only other thing would be to look for a jumper on the motherboard that disables the on-board video, or maybe a bios update...
BTW, I've got a few "Lite-on" products and they seem to be pretty nice. I think Light-on makes rebranded stuff for other manufacturers and have only recently been trying to market under their own name.
http://us.liteonit.com/us/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=44&Itemid=118
-Jack. |
Post by splinters // Mar 27, 2007, 9:15pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers guys but as for putting it back together and returning it...that is the problem. When it is back to normal, it runs fine so I have no real ground to return it 'as is'. They would simply not find a fault.
BUT, put in the Geforce 7900GT and the problems start, so they would blame the card, or blame the lack of PSU power (it would have to have the original 275w PSU back in).
So catch 22 here, if I tell them I put the necessary PSU in my warranty is voided, if I put th machine back together, it would seem to be in full working order to a technician.
Can't win really.
As for throwing good money after bad, I have only bought a second monitor and a PSU. Sony monitor was a bargain and after selling the thermal take PSU, I will have spent around £50 on a decent PSU that I could use in any machine. Not bad really.
Still, I have left the matter with Acer and xFx for the time being but hopefully this thread will help those looking at an 'off the shelf' PC...:o |
Post by Ambrose // Mar 28, 2007, 4:57am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Hey Splinters
Maybe I'm dumb here but I kind of getting used to it but you bet I had a ruff time trying to understand this...
For maybe the last year or more my computer has been failing to boot as it looks, cabinet open, you see green lamp go on but nothing happens.
I've tested the resett button to hold it that couple of seconds etc. and though that I understood what it was only to give up.
So what I do know when comming home is press the button and then wait, do not press the button again because then it's hmm of???
Then after everything from 5' to almost half an hour it will start...
have no clue why but no family member are allowed to press the button meanwhile, since then you might have to do this twice over meaning over an hour of wasted time.
Sounds sick sounds weird, yes I know but this is what I'm used at now and there are other pririties on where to spend any money so will live like this until getting a new computer another year ;)
anyway, test this with your, just pushing once and let it be there for as long as it takes and see if it cares to wake up or not...
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by splinters // Mar 28, 2007, 6:32am
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splinters
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Cheers Ambrose, I will try that.
Last night I could not use the inbuilt graphics so I cleared the CMOS, checked the BIOS-disabled any memory allocation to the onboard (that is the only option there) and rebooted...TADA. Fine.
Turned it on and off a few times...TADA.Left it off overnight, booted tonite and TADA.
So, all looks well and maybe those two things did it. xFx have offered the RMA route but I am going to sit this oout for a few days and see. It worked for weeks last time before going weird so....we shall see.
I guess a few people are learning a lot from our problems. Like build your own...:rolleyes: |
Post by Ambrose // Mar 28, 2007, 7:07am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Memory does not work with the inbuilt graphics then but doesn't solve the external card thing?
Bought wrong memory to mine as well so I had to use external video card, maybe I should test another external card to see if my power - booting problems dissapear.
Very difficult and problematic to deal with several problems at once.
Your not using the external card now or?
I dare not testing, think I blow my hard disk when I bought the computer, not worse than I could format it but still, back it up before trying, might be that I never set memory on internal card to nada...hmm... no I don't want to try...no not again, another external card though might be something more in my style, think I'll test that after paying bills ;)
and Splinters if anything goes wrong your the first I'll blame, oki ;)
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by splinters // Mar 28, 2007, 9:18pm
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splinters
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Well, who would have thought it...xFx have suggested that the card is faulty and are organising a RMA. They admit that a batch of faulty 7900GT's were shipped and they have my serial number so I guess mine could have been one of them if they are offering this service.
S'funny, but I never suspected the card itself; probably because new it was worth almost as much as the whole PC...:rolleyes:
I may yet be proven wrong but I will run the PC on onboard for a few days and if it happens again, I will know it is not the card. That is the problem here...no real pattern although the only certain cure at the moment is to remove the card. |
Post by splinters // Mar 30, 2007, 8:45am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Oh, the irony. The 7900 card is running fine so far on a friends PC using the PSU he bought off me that I thought was not enough to run this card. Just recently I could not even boot the PC wiht the card in. I have a Geforce 5300 in my machine (what a dog!) which he lent me which proves the Mobo and chipset are fine.
So, what gives here...I am completely stuck. Only physical difference between cards (apart from 100+ frames in games:rolleyes: ) is the 7900 needs extra power which it definitely had from my Antec 500W.
God, I am puzzled...and more than a little fed up with this...:( |
Post by TomG // Mar 30, 2007, 10:11am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Some combinations just don't work, though. Some motherboards don't work with some types of memory; some memory with certain graphics cards; and so on.
Was the card running on its own power, rather than drawing power from the motherboard? I still wasnt clear on that.
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Mar 30, 2007, 12:15pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Some combinations just don't work, though. Some motherboards don't work with some types of memory; some memory with certain graphics cards; and so on.
But it did work Tom, for a few weeks at least...that is why I am so frustrated that it is neither the Mobo or the card which can be proven to be faulty. If only I had know before I splashed out on a new PC to house it...:o
As for power, the 7900GT always had it's own power connector from the PSU either directly via a 4pin molex or via the PCI-E power adaptor supplied with the card.
Sorry to sound like I am griping about what was a generous prize from Caligari, but you can understand my frustration. It's like getting a nice new TV only to find the connectors on it will not connect to any of you equipment and without each other they are both pretty useless.
Thank god the icons are done for tS7.5 as I can hardly work on it as it is...still doesn't help with testing and other work though.
Anyway, thanks for listening to my rants...:( |
Post by Steinie // Mar 30, 2007, 12:39pm
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Steinie
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It ran on your friends ok but it ran on yours ok too as I remember. Wasn't the problem cold booting? No problem cold booting on your friends? How long do you leave the computer off in between? If you power off then back on within 15 seconds does it come back up?
Do you have problems with it once it is running? Lockup? Same Bios as your friends? Memory speed the same?
Is there a jumper on the MB to disable it's internal graphics? Updated Bios yet?
When it doesn't start where exactly does it stop? |
Post by prodigy // Mar 30, 2007, 12:41pm
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prodigy
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Splinter you try to get the lastest bios upgrade for your Mobo?? and vga?
I recommends leave all with default settings, add your 7900, disconect all your other drivers like dvd if you have other pci or pcix cards disconect..
and try with that..
I never recommends install a VGA or other kind of hardware at once.. add part by part and other good point
The New Vga have a Cooler na? well try to see if on start from cold the cooler works fine...
IF your cooler doesnt refresh the gpu you can crash the os, or broke the vga.
My comments.. Good luck.. |
Post by splinters // Mar 30, 2007, 1:00pm
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splinters
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It ran on your friends ok but it ran on yours ok too as I remember. Wasn't the problem cold booting? No problem cold booting on your friends? How long do you leave the computer off in between? If you power off then back on within 15 seconds does it come back up?
Do you have problems with it once it is running? Lockup? Same Bios as your friends? Memory speed the same?
Is there a jumper on the MB to disable it's internal graphics? Updated Bios yet?
When it doesn't start where exactly does it stop?
Yes used to run on mine but problem has always been cold booting. Ran fine once booted. Just lately the PC will not even POST with the card in, it stops at 'Detecting IDE Drives'...no reassuring beep when it usually reaches 'verifying DMI Pool' or similar. I cannot even hit DEL to go into BIOS...it just freezes but CTRL-ALT-DEL for a few seconds gets reboot then does it all again. Runs all day with no problems when running. Latest driver and BIOS (although ACER support is pretty rubbish). No real option to disable onboard apart from being able to set the memory aperture to disabled which seems to do the same thing.
I disabled onboard in device manager, uninstalled all Nvidia drivers, cleared CMOS and booted with card in...but no go.
My friend has a socket 939 while I have AM2 but he has cold booted it four times tonight as well as numerous 'warm' resets. He left 10 mins at least befor switching back on. As I said, I can reboot all day long, but leave it off for a few minutes or even overnight (I always turn it off at night) and back to same problem next day. This really is erratic though and has been on and off for months now but worse lately.
Prodigy, I already bench built from scratach and all went well until the card was inserted...:( |
Post by prodigy // Mar 30, 2007, 3:43pm
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prodigy
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HOO!!! now i think i have on a computer a very similar problem.. yes!!!
The problem was when i try to turn on the pc.. and "SOMETIMES" the pc run and very fast turn off.. But Sometimes..
Push on.. a Beep!! and the pc goes off..
and thats all when i add a new VGA 6600gt ..
And i think it whas the VGA.. but the vga works ok!!
And know what be the problem???
A few months ago i add a extra fan to the back of the case.. and for some kind of reason when i add the new vga the pc sometimes it doesnt work. The problem was when i turn ON! a little sparkle comming from the bobine of the fan make mase to the case and that stop the PSU..
And allways do the problem when i turn on the PC on Cold, cos if i reset in hard the fan continues working..
I see that sparkle on a dark room.. if i not seen that sparkle comming form the fan i never found that problem..
Try to disconect all external fans.. from hd. from the case.. everything..
Hope that helps.. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 30, 2007, 4:00pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Here is a draw..i know better use Truespace..hehehe
But maybe my explanation are not very well "explained" hehe
Cos the fan use 12V if you have a piece of metal near (on my case on a common site) on a Cold Start that compsume more power and the fan can make a sparkle..
That sparkle make mase to the case and the power supply fails to prevent hardware damages.. |
Post by Steinie // Mar 30, 2007, 4:08pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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This is odd but there is something to this too. If there is a short a smaller VGA card drawing lower current would still have enough juice to start. A larger card like yours needing more current would not startup if this was the case. Since most amps are needed to start up the hd you would have the most problems on a cold boot. A warm boot the drives are already spinning.
Turnoff the lights and see! |
Post by prodigy // Mar 30, 2007, 4:10pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Thats happend with a 6600 with extra power supply. but on the old 5200 that never happend..
I think that feets!! try turn off the lights or better disconect all your fans... and see the powersuply fan with the lights off whe you start from cold too.. |
Post by TomG // Mar 30, 2007, 9:57pm
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TomG
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I know it booted Paul. But the thing about memory incompatibility with card or mobo or what have you is that it doesnt always mean failure, those incompatibilities can result in things like "works for weeks then stops" or "sometimes boots sometimes doesn't".
Unfortunately it's the nature of the beast when it comes to the huge variety of components you can put into a PC. I should know, I have continually upgraded one machine for 5 years, through about 4 processors, 3 motherboards, 5 graphics cards, 5 hard drives (including a switch to a RAID adapter); upgraded another machine through 2 PSUs, 2 motherboards, 3 graphics cards; built my latest machine from scratch; and more. My house currently has 4 working computers, 2 of which are mine and I use at once :)
My current motherboard for instance is reported by many to have issues with the timing of the RAM. I myself was lucky and never had any trouble, but many people have had to go into the BIOS and adjust the timing manually to get the board to work, depending on what brand of RAM they use. There are a LOT of these issues, some that only show when you happen to use a particular combination.
Anyway, I thought you said XFX had agreed it was a serial number from a batch of cards that had a problem and were issuing an RMA? Sounds like that is a definite thing to try.
I would also do a search on the net for discussions about your motherboard. I must admit that no BIOS option to disable onboard graphics doesnt sound reassuring (in fact, the presence of onboard graphics is not reassuring). There may be other people with similar problems out there with advice on what got them through it. It is hard work searching, that I know, I have had to do that many times for many pieces of hardware.
It comes down to this - it takes a lot of patience and a little luck to do your own hardware upgrades and mods, and a lot of work doing research when you hit a problem. You can always pay someone else to do it for you, which removes the need for patience and luck, but adds the need for money in place of patience, luck and time.
Personally, I would look at the motherboard as the main potential cause - what board is it? I always had trouble with an MSI board, which eventually died (and quite quickly) so I no longer use them ever. My last board was an Abit which was great. This time around I am on an ASUS as they had the right sort of board at the right price (the Abit board didnt do all I wanted it to do without being more expensive). This one is a P5N-E, seems to get good reviews too, and actually building this system from scratch was far easier and less trouble than I have had from smaller upgrades before (in fact, once I installed a modem card about 7 years ago and it broke the whole computer - crazy, it's not even central to the system, yet just fitting it stopped the whole machine from working; I have also had to spend days working on problems caused by graphics cards upgrades etc, it can be a nightmare!).
Anyway, I hope it is sorted soon - take up XFX on their RMA offer; check Prodigy's idea; research people's comments on your mobo; consider a different mobo. Those would be my steps in your situation :)
HTH!
Tom
PS - I gave up switching my computer off at night about 7 years ago. All my machines run continuously unless I am going on holiday. I find this gives much better stability and avoids issues for reasons unknown. |
Post by splinters // Mar 30, 2007, 10:20pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Thanks guys, I am getting the card back today so I have the weekend to try and nail this down before returning the xFx card as a last resort. |
Post by splinters // Mar 31, 2007, 6:26am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ok, same problem...will not boot beyond Detecting IDE drives...so I disconnected them and what do you know? The thing POST'd and beeped but obviously could not boot windows without the HD.
So a new breakthrough which I must investigate further...possible IRQ conflicts between, say SATA/IDE controller and GPU??
If that is it then I would be very happy
Nice to get help from you guys...I posted on other forums obviously populated by die-hard gamers and overclockers and simply got "you bought a crappy ACER PC what do you expect...sell it and buy a real PC etc. etc. not really helpful.
Bottom line, this is a nice PC for what it cost...dual core AMD, 2GB RAM, 7900 GT etc. I can play HL2, Quake 4 etc. on full detail at great speed and Photoshop and tS run real nice.
Shame that when you ask for help...people just like to kick you when you are down, but not around here. Cheers. |
Post by TomG // Mar 31, 2007, 6:37am
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TomG
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Good luck and keep us updated with what you find out! This one is kind of a mystery and I would like to know what the answer turns out to be :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 31, 2007, 7:54am
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Jack Edwards
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LOL Splinters,
I'd consider my time worth more than all that. If you're not planning to overclock then maybe you should consider spending some money on a different motherboard.
Maybe for $65 something like this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813123013
You've still got the value from the case, HD, RAM, etc...
-Jack. |
Post by splinters // Mar 31, 2007, 12:33pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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No overclocking here...just a nice simple setup. I remember updating the ethernet controller along with chipset drivers and I see that the ethernet and 7900 are sharing the same IRQ. Funny how removing the HD allows PC to POST as normal without hanging...:rolleyes:
I still have faith in fixing this and it is running again. I am going to backup important files and use the recovery disc to rebuild the PC how it was.
If it still fails...well, that is another job.
Cheers guys |
Post by hemulin // Mar 31, 2007, 12:46pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Splinters, what is the product code/model of your ACER pc? This may help in understanding how the problem can be fixed? |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 31, 2007, 2:34pm
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trueBlue
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Humm... your problems have just begun. What until your Windows Vista arrives. :mad: |
Post by splinters // Mar 31, 2007, 2:37pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I have an Acer T180 Hemulin. Not sure if this will help though.
I just used the system disc to reinstall to the factory settings and all looks good. Did a few cold boots and all seems fine... so far. I noticed a few weird things in the Device Manager before I did this such as about 20 devices (most with errors) listed under the 1394 Host Controller (firewire I guess). After reinstall the firewire is back under network cards where it belongs, I have standard IDE drivers and no yellow triangles. Maybe I caused a conflict updating drivers. Ethernet and card still share IRQ #16 but we shall see if this reinstall sorted the problem...:D |
Post by splinters // Mar 31, 2007, 10:23pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ok guys, time to call it a day with this one. PC will no longer boot with the card in.
It is a lovely sunny, Sunday morning and I am typing this on a 2 year old laptop, costing little more than a top end graphics card, that has never even failed to boot once...life is just too short to waste time on this. Thanks Jedwards for the reminder that my time is worth more than this.
For those who are still eager to solve the mystery, I reinstalled windows from the backup disc and all went well, it even booted from cold a few times.
After a windows update, I rebooted and received the 'found new hardware' message repeatedly and it had put in over 20 1394 devices all with exclamation signs next to them. So, I used system restore to go back to just after the fresh install but from when the PC came back on it froze and I had to do a hard boot.
From here on it would not boot with the card. Just stuck on 'detecting IDE drives' and disconnecting these made no difference.
So, I give up...it just will not work for me...:(
However, without a decent PC I cannot test tS or work productively for Caligari, nor can I do my personal work at a time when I really need to.
So, my choices are limited unless I want to throw good money after bad.
I could return the PC for testing but I doubt they would find a problem without the card in, I cannot.
With the card in I need the bigger PSU, to send it back like this would 'void' the warranty and they would not touch it.
I RMA the card but they, like my friend, would probably find no fault with it, and I could be waiting 4 weeks to find this out.
There is always a new Mobo but I doubt that my Acer recovery disc/Vista update would accept it as it has an ACER board in. I could try a new graphics card but I would need at least £100 to get a decent one...and what if it does not work?
Or I sell the machine at a loss and start again (and allow a few hundred for a Vista upgrade)...all in all not good.
Still, Caligari I thank you for the Geforce 7900 and community users I thank you for all your help. |
Post by xmanflash // Apr 1, 2007, 12:45am
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xmanflash
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Hey Splinters.. That all sucks - sorry to hear about it..
I had a weird problem with my new machine (Core2 Duo 6600 o/clocked to 3G) in that the machine would sometimes, and sometimes not boot - kept losing 1 disk of the raid 0 array and so on. I had the motherboard replaced and it all works fine now :-)
The weird thing was that there was only a problem when I had drives plugged into the raid socket, and no problem with just 1 boot drive.
I can send you the specs of my latest machine - its a hoot, very quick (I built it for realtime HDV editing) and didnt cost the earth..
I always figure that the aount of time I spend on a computer is directly proportional to the amount of monsy I should spend on making it as reliable, fast and easy to use as possible.. Just relate all your wasted time to dollars per hour not earned (or beers not drunk!) and it gets a whole new perspective..
btw - I bought a new 22" widescreen LCD.. Chimea (http://www.shopbot.com.au/p-24352-421816.html) and also a friend bought another (brand is V7 - http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=203449460&adid=17662) - they are soo cheap ($380 australia) and just amazing to work on.. almost as good as dual 19" but without the neckache from looking at one more than the other! :)
It will be great to use with TS 7.5 I reckon.. |
Post by splinters // Apr 1, 2007, 2:29am
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splinters
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Cheers Xman, all but given up on this but I have hope. There is a workaround for getting a Vista upgrade to do a fresh install so I could get a new Mobo.
Also, after the PC fails to boot, and if I manage to get ot to boot, I am seeing the PC detect new hardware and promtly try to install over 20
Texas Instruments OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 controller devices. All have exclamation marks next to them.
It somehow seems related to the problem. I just did a fresh install and it all worked, after a few problems I booted to find this so I removed them bit they keep being 'found' on next cold boot...
Glad to her your PC is running fine now, and I am sure you will enjoy tS7.5...:) |
Post by Alien // Apr 1, 2007, 1:33pm
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Alien
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A real nice machine with built in Nvidia 6100 graphics.
Isn't that an oxymoron?
I knew the PSU (275W) would not be enough for the GPU so I put ina thermaltake 420W with 25V on the 12v rails.
I would have said at least a 500W with at least 30A on the 12v, but that's just cos I like to have a nice safe margin between what it needs & what it's capable of. My 500W PSU has 34A on the +12V line.
One more point, the card is from US while PC is UK.
Doesn't make any difference.
The card has a 4pin Molex while my PSU has a 6 pin PCI-E connector but I have used an adaptor that comes with the card and the standard molex.
Yeah, some cards do have a 4 pin molex - my Saphire X800 GTO has 1, but then it's an AGP not PCI-E, so I wouldn't expect it to have the 6 pin connector on mine. As for yours, I don't think it makes much of a difference, as long as the card gets the power.
I have a local Maplins store selling an Antec 500W smartpower 2.0.
it has 17A on 12v1 and 19A on 12v2 which is 11A more than I have now.
Actually, with multiple rails like that the combined amount isn't purely additive, it's a bit less than the sum of the 2. That's 1 of the reasons why PC Power & Cooling [often referred to by many as the best PSUs you can buy] only do their PSUs with a single +12v rail.
Don't really want to pay much more than that for what was basically a 'budget' machine to house a free card...:o
Some things you can afford to cut corners on, cost-wise - PSUs, mobos, & CPU cooling are not on that list.
Just wondering if your current power supply is one of the 'updated for ATX' types with one or two 6-pin plugs. Newish graphics cards (and power supplies) have that 6-pin (black usually) socket rather than a 4-pin Molex socket (automobile type, white nylon)
Be very careful when connecting power to the motherboard and the graphics card if there's a Molex socket on the motherboard, some manufs add one 'for more power to the graphics system' but not all Molex connections are safe especially when daisy-chaining hard drives
I think the only ones you need to be really careful of getting mixed up are the 6pin connectors, & the square [2x2 pin arrangement] 4 pin connnectors.
6 pin [2x3 pins]: most commonly used nowadays for PCI-Express cards, however there used to be a connector used on old Xeon server motherboards that looked the same, & some PSUs had connectors made for those. However, they are not the same, & bad, smokey, expensive things could happen if you got them mixed up.
4 pin [2x2 pins]: IIRC, it was introduced in the early days of the P4 to provide extra power to the CPU, also used on AMD-based boards for similar/same reasons. However, in the last couple of years there have been a lot more motherboards that use a 24 pin power connector. PSU manufacturers decided to make their PSUs compatible with older mobos that only had a 20 pin power socket by providing the extra 4 wires as a seperate connector, though it's wires are usually bound to the other 20 so it can go in right next to the 20 pin connector if a mobo requires it. Sadly, it would probably fit in the older "P4" connector as well, but as they're not wired the same, nasty things could occurr if you tried it.
I have never heard of not being able to disable onboard graphics btw, they are always able to be turned off that I've seen.
I've heard of it before, & it's usually a sign of a crap motherboard.
Best to run it with its own connection to the PSU if possible (some cards this is optional, some cards this is vital).
I've not heard of any for which it was optional.
I daren't turn the PC off now...:o
I think I'd have trouble sleeping without the sound of mine on anyway. :D
One last option here; the parts in the PC are all decent (LG, AMD, Seagate etc.) but the Mobo is a proprietary Acer (made by ECS)
No more calls folks, we have a winner! You couldn't pay me enough to use an ECS [AKA Elitegroup] mobo. Complete & utter http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/poo.gif! I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot barge pole.
You shouldn't have to reinstall windows, but you might have to boot up in safe mode then install the new motherboard drivers. It probably will be a fair bit of work.
Whilst it is sometimes possible to get away with installing a different mobo to an existing copy of Windows, it's never a good idea, & just asking for trouble sooner or later [probably sooner].
My dad's e-machines computer is running a 7900GS no probs after replacing the power supply.
Yeah, but is his mobo made by ECS? :p
Only other thing would be to look for a jumper on the motherboard that disables the on-board video
That thought ocurred to me as well.
BTW, I've got a few "Lite-on" products and they seem to be pretty nice. I think Light-on makes rebranded stuff for other manufacturers and have only recently been trying to market under their own name.
"Only recently"? I've been using LiteOn optical drives for several years. It's only just recently that they decided to drop out of making their own optical drives to sell themselves, & decided to start making them for Benq, which is probably why some places list them as LiteOn-Benq, rather than just Benq, as they know how popular LiteOn drives are.
I guess a few people are learning a lot from our problems. Like build your own...:rolleyes:
And never, EVER buy which brand of mobo, splinters? ;) :D
Oh, the irony. The 7900 card is running fine so far on a friends PC using the PSU he bought off me that I thought was not enough to run this card. Just recently I could not even boot the PC wiht the card in. I have a Geforce 5300 in my machine (what a dog!) which he lent me which proves the Mobo and chipset are fine.
So, what gives here...I am completely stuck. Only physical difference between cards (apart from 100+ frames in games:rolleyes: ) is the 7900 needs extra power which it definitely had from my Antec 500W.
God, I am puzzled...and more than a little fed up with this...:(
It's not just that the 7900 needs more power, it's that it's also faster, & therefore the rest of the system has to work harder to keep up with it. On a decent mobo you shouldn't see any probs, but on 1 that's already close to its limits... Kinda like trying to shoe-horn a V8 into a Robin Reliant. Ok, so my knowledge of cars is extremely limited, & you might not be able to find a V8 engine that would fit in a Robin, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at.
Yes used to run on mine but problem has always been cold booting. Ran fine once booted. Just lately the PC will not even POST with the card in, it stops at 'Detecting IDE Drives'
Ah... this sounds familiar. I seem to remember something specifically about ECS mobos with a prob like this. I believe it's the mobo chipset [knowing them, it probably has an orange, crappy looking heatsink on it]. Having said that, the problem I'm thinking of would be with older [socket A/462] ECS boards, but I wouldn't put it past them to just use a slightly modified version of the old chipset if it would save them a few quid & just about do the job. It's been a while since I heard about this, but IIRC it's a heat issue - basically if the chipset's at a temperature that it finds comfortable it'll work, too hot or too cold [yes, I did just type that - probably the only time I've ever heard of a PC component actually playing up because it's running too close to room temperature!] & it won't.
As I said, I can reboot all day long, but leave it off for a few minutes or even overnight (I always turn it off at night) and back to same problem next day.
Some times companies will build these machines to such fine tolerances that they'll work ok as sold, but you change anything & because they've used such cheap components [in this case the mobo] it's enough to push them over the edge, so to speak.
(in fact, the presence of onboard graphics is not reassuring).
Very true!
Personally, I would look at the motherboard as the main potential cause - what board is it?
He already said, it's made by ECS. That in itself is enough to make me suspect it, even if I hadn't heard of ECS boards having probs like this before.
My last board was an Abit which was great.
Abit are cool. My current 1 is an Abit, as was my previous.
This time around I am on an ASUS as they had the right sort of board at the right price (the Abit board didnt do all I wanted it to do without being more expensive).
I've been thinking about an Asus as well, the Crosshair (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=101&l3=300&model=1283&modelmenu=1). Very nice, but not cheap for a single socket board.
Cheers Xman, all but given up on this but I have hope. There is a workaround for getting a Vista upgrade to do a fresh install so I could get a new Mobo.
Sounds like a good idea [the new mobo I mean]. Also, IIRC there's another work around relating to extending the amount of time you have before you activate it, which can be done again & again. Might be a good idea to hold off activating it until you're sure you have everything working right. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 1, 2007, 2:32pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yeah, but is his mobo made by ECS? :p
I looked it up a while back and I think it's a Biostar board. It's actually a pretty nice board except for the part where they hard soldered the CPU to the board... first time I've seen that since the 486 desktops...
I agree that this is likely an issue of a computer (motherboard and powersupply specifically) engineered to a very fine margin and not really suitable for upgrading.
While I'm always an advocate of Build Your Own, the Gateway/E-machines systems seem to be well constructed and have a good quality relative to the price. Don't mistake me a Gateway fan, it's just when I'm making recommendations for purchasing for a client, price vs. value, it's a lot easier to get a Gateway and slap a better video card in it than to justify them paying me to assemble a DIY computer. ;)
I've also had some good experiences with Acer, but it varies product to product, though. Some of their higher end stuff is very nice, while the low end products can be total crap. The Acer monitor I'm using was a great buy and has beautiful color, but it's gamma and brightness are WAY off. The monitor is actually too bright and tends to skew the gamma towards the high end and clip the brighter colors. It took me a full day to get the monitor calibrated but now that's done, it's very nice for the price. Heck I was also able to get a 22" acer for my boss for $270. That's not bad considering the nicer NEC 19" was $500.
Just need to take it all in perspective, for the average user the system that Splinters bought would probably perform fairly well and considering that was the target market is it really fair to judge the product by our standards?
If Splinters could get the original PSU back, I'd consider taking it back to the store and just say it sucked, pay the %15 restocking fee and move on. Or maybe just put it up on ebay and see what he can get for it? Though if the case and and components are good, a quality budget motherboard sounds like it would get him up and running as well. My only worry is why pay to upgrade dated technology?
The C2D chips are pretty amazing and intel motherboards are a lot cheaper than AMD based boards these days. As far as video games go, the cpu speed isn't really that big a deal, any chip as fast or faster than a 2.0 GHz single core Athlon is fine as long as you have 2 Gig of ram and an nVidia 7900 or 8800 video card. It's the video card that is still the bottleneck for performance, but for rendering with VRay and Lightworks is where the faster Intel C2Ds would really shine.
In fact it would be cool if we could come up with an "official" test scene for the community to benchmark the actual difference.
-Jack. |
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